MH all the way

[GrowerGoneWild]

Last grow, same strains, similar conditions I tried HPS for the first time instead of going MH all the way like I did my first 2 grows and at around day 50 I switched back to the MH because of weak trichome development in comparison to the first 2. Went back to straight MH for grow 4. Day 35...
Looks like my HPS may always just serve as a spare tire.

I've been working mixed light grows and I prefer them vs running one light, I get better feedback on potency and appearance.

I think many growers are starting to shift their thinking.. that targeted spectrum doesn't produce a superior product, it tends to lack in some qualities, dont get me wrong saying you cant grow exceptional cannabis with it but I was playing with mixed lights and yielded a product that had outstanding bag appeal.

If you read the book "Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis" by DJ short he suggests a mix of lights in a 1:1 ratio.

"My personal preference is for a combination of 430W horizontally mounted HPS systems coupled with 400vertically mounted mounted MH system in small spaced flower cycles. " - DJ Short.

So his ratio is 1:1. HPS/MH

Now my own data point and experience finds a ratio of 2:1 (HPS/MH) works better than 1:1 Try it yourself, the product literally looks better.. My experience using strictly MH, was a bit disappointing as far as yield but puts out a good product.. And it takes more than usual to ripen an MH crop.

However looking at Tystikks CMH grow (or even looking at LEC lights) I'm seeing that it is in fact a full spectrum light with the power of HID, This solves for me the multiple ballasts, and having all kinds of lights laying around, I like simple solutions. Not to mention the fact that dual arc bulbs are too expensive.

I think I've mentioned this before many times, I've observed that herbs, like chives grown only under MH light have a sharper taste to them vs. a sunlight grown chive, but they are smaller. I'm guessing the MH has some effect on oil or aromatic compounds... or its a theory anyways.. Its something I'm trying to apply to cannabis.

 

[ttystikk]

I've been working mixed light grows and I prefer them vs running one light, I get better feedback on potency and appearance.

I think many growers are starting to shift their thinking.. that targeted spectrum doesn't produce a superior product, it tends to lack in some qualities, dont get me wrong saying you cant grow exceptional cannabis with it but I was playing with mixed lights and yielded a product that had outstanding bag appeal.

If you read the book "Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis" by DJ short he suggests a mix of lights in a 1:1 ratio.

"My personal preference is for a combination of 430W horizontally mounted HPS systems coupled with 400vertically mounted mounted MH system in small spaced flower cycles. " - DJ Short.

So his ratio is 1:1. HPS/MH

Now my own data point and experience finds a ratio of 2:1 (HPS/MH) works better than 1:1 Try it yourself, the product literally looks better.. My experience using strictly MH, was a bit disappointing as far as yield but puts out a good product.. And it takes more than usual to ripen an MH crop.

However looking at Tystikks CMH grow (or even looking at LEC lights) I'm seeing that it is in fact a full spectrum light with the power of HID, This solves for me the multiple ballasts, and having all kinds of lights laying around, I like simple solutions. Not to mention the fact that dual arc bulbs are too expensive.

I think I've mentioned this before many times, I've observed that herbs, like chives grown only under MH light have a sharper taste to them vs. a sunlight grown chive, but they are smaller. I'm guessing the MH has some effect on oil or aromatic compounds... or its a theory anyways.. Its something I'm trying to apply to cannabis.

The blue and UV light gives the frost response and the red gives growing power... That's an oversimplification, but it describes what I've seen.

I like the 860W CDM, I just got some 315W CMH lamps to test, and I'm still going to do a COB array soon. Better light is always the goal, with more of it being a close second priority.

 

[AllenHaze]

Good stuff. I hate it, but you know you have to do it in these forums - I am familiar with cannabis . I know what quality over yield is, what I meant was, what you meant by saying that quality over yield was better for you when using MH . I see now that you mean that MH is more effective at developing potency true to the full potential of the plant by comparison to HPS? Are they leafier at all? We know that by reducing the amounts of N in the soil you would effectively limit new green growth but the fact remains that N is required in varying concentrations during all stages of growth. What is the difference in new green growth between the two lights during flower iye? Are there more leaves which are getting more trichomes? How are your calyx to leaf ratios by comparison as well?

 

[lilzuko]

Update: Day 52 of flower ( Day 10 of 10k bulb)

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I've been working mixed light grows and I prefer them vs running one light, I get better feedback on potency and appearance.

I think many growers are starting to shift their thinking.. that targeted spectrum doesn't produce a superior product, it tends to lack in some qualities, dont get me wrong saying you cant grow exceptional cannabis with it but I was playing with mixed lights and yielded a product that had outstanding bag appeal.

If you read the book "Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis" by DJ short he suggests a mix of lights in a 1:1 ratio.

"My personal preference is for a combination of 430W horizontally mounted HPS systems coupled with 400vertically mounted mounted MH system in small spaced flower cycles. " - DJ Short.

So his ratio is 1:1. HPS/MH

Now my own data point and experience finds a ratio of 2:1 (HPS/MH) works better than 1:1 Try it yourself, the product literally looks better.. My experience using strictly MH, was a bit disappointing as far as yield but puts out a good product.. And it takes more than usual to ripen an MH crop.

However looking at Tystikks CMH grow (or even looking at LEC lights) I'm seeing that it is in fact a full spectrum light with the power of HID, This solves for me the multiple ballasts, and having all kinds of lights laying around, I like simple solutions. Not to mention the fact that dual arc bulbs are too expensive.

I think I've mentioned this before many times, I've observed that herbs, like chives grown only under MH light have a sharper taste to them vs. a sunlight grown chive, but they are smaller. I'm guessing the MH has some effect on oil or aromatic compounds... or its a theory anyways.. Its something I'm trying to apply to cannabis.

absolutely, I've been preaching this for yrs now, the absolute best results I ever had was when I was using three 400w ballasts, in a closet, one mh in the middle and the hps' on the outside, and the overlapping of both the mh and the hps created some amazing herb.
In fact that the reason I went and got the 10k 600w mh,.
In two months we'll have pictures and more information.
I'm in a 6x6 foot area with two 600w ballasts, one mh, one hps.
Only issue i'm concerned with at this point is the heat....

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

absolutely, I've been preaching this for yrs now, the absolute best results I ever had was when I was using three 400w ballasts, in a closet, one mh in the middle and the hps' on the outside, and the overlapping of both the mh and the hps created some amazing herb.

I hear ya, I went balls deep into the mixed bulb thing around 2008.. The only thing that came close was a fresh HPS bulb.

Thank you for that story, I've found similar results... So that reinforces my opinion that 2:1 HPS/MH is an ideal lighting solution. I'm speculating here but I would say that HPS/MH is better than say HPS+CFL UV or HPS+LED UV.

In a way the growing community could have deduced this from watching hortilux offer dual arc bulbs, or even HPS bulbs with an enhanced blue profile. ..

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I hear ya, I went balls deep into the mixed bulb thing around 2008.. The only thing that came close was a fresh HPS bulb.

Thank you for that story, I've found similar results... So that reinforces my opinion that 2:1 HPS/MH is an ideal lighting solution. I'm speculating here but I would say that HPS/MH is better than say HPS+CFL UV or HPS+LED UV.

In a way the growing community could have deduced this from watching hortilux offer dual arc bulbs, or even HPS bulbs with an enhanced blue profile. ..

i'm not even sure if it's the ratio that important, for me the key was the overlapping of the lamp profiles.
Just for me it was when I had the three used together.
It's been 4 days since I put my plants back inside, (I like to preflower outside on top of my hill this time of year)
anyways, in four days, that new 10k MH has impressed me so far.
Got the heat under control too.
The plants are about 20 days in, so this experiment will be a quick one.
Most of these should be done by the beginning of oct.

 

[kmog33]

First you say spectrum doesn't matter- and in the very next sentence you talk about PAR.

Then you say they discontinued CMH- but then talk about its replacement, the 315W version. BTW, the 860W is still in production, too.

You haven't made any convincing points here at all, you've just managed to contradict yourself. Often.

Actually, a couple were alright.

But the most important thing here is efficiency, That is the big word .

mixing the MH and hps together is a much better choice IMO then stand alone

getting as much light to any plant and a healthy plant proper nutrients at the right time and so on is going to give you the best possible yield and product

80 percent of the growers can not even take a plant to the end and keep it healthy but are so concerned about spectrum

your strain will only produce resin count what its genetics is capable of end of story..

That last one probably being the most on point.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

i'm not even sure if it's the ratio that important, for me the key was the overlapping of the lamp profiles.
Just for me it was when I had the three used together.

Oh I got ya.. You were just looking for more complete lighting profile

I thought it was easier to communicate mixed lighting using a ratio, I was trying to quantify the solution, for example 400W HPS and 400W MH is 1:1.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Oh I got ya.. You were just looking for more complete lighting profile

I thought it was easier to communicate mixed lighting using a ratio, I was trying to quantify the solution, for example 400W HPS and 400W MH is 1:1.

oh nah brother, I absolutely understood you, in fact I have made that exact ratio statement a couple yrs prior.
verbatim.
2:1 ratio of hps to mh wattage

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

oh nah brother, I absolutely understood you, in fact I have made that exact ratio statement a couple yrs prior.
verbatim.
2:1 ratio of hps to mh wattage

Great minds think alike..

 

[mr sunshine]

@UncleBuck

 

[UncleBuck]

@UncleBuck

i'd kill myself if i flowered solely with an MH.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

i'd kill myself if i flowered solely with an MH.

luckily I was ok for the first 5 yrs or so.
Back in the early 90s there were no remote ballasts, or even hps wired for 115 at the time.
I used a non remote warehouse ballast 400 w mh and the smoke I grew was fabulous, way better than what I could buy locally in santa cruz, and we are known for some good herb.
the MH will absolutely grow fantastic buds, and there wasn't even a need for suicidal thoughts.

 

[UncleBuck]

luckily I was ok for the first 5 yrs or so.
Back in the early 90s there were no remote ballasts, or even hps wired for 115 at the time.
I used a non remote warehouse ballast 400 w mh and the smoke I grew was fabulous, way better than what I could buy locally in santa cruz, and we are known for some good herb.
the MH will absolutely grow fantastic buds, and there wasn't even a need for suicidal thoughts.

if you can't take any magnetic ballast and make it remote, you should probably kill yourself.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

if you can't take any magnetic ballast and make it remote, you should probably kill yourself.

you obviously don't know your way around an old school non remote ballast do ya?
and you obviously haven't done a grow all with JUST a metal halide either, have you?
For your information, I had a professional electrician wire it to a 115v, and I inquired as to whether it could be made remote, he said it wasn't.
I was a teenager, and not exactly comfortable re-wiring something of that amperage for a house that I was renting.
You gonna try and provoke me further? I got an itchy ignore finger...
I've seen you try to do that many times with others... I almost wish you could see how it portrays yourself...
pointless with me though man.. just sayin you can rile up some younger folk, but not me.
nothing but smiles from me man.
like this one.

--edit---
meh, ignored ya anyways.
adios

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

you obviously don't know your way around an old school non remote ballast do ya?
and you obviously haven't done a grow all with JUST a metal halide either, have you?
For your information, I had a professional electrician wire it to a 115v, and I inquired as to whether it could be made remote, he said it wasn't.
I was a teenager, and not exactly comfortable re-wiring something of that amperage for a house that I was renting.
You gonna try and provoke me further? I got an itchy ignore finger...
I've seen you try to do that many times with others... I almost wish you could see how it portrays yourself...
pointless with me though man.. just sayin you can rile up some younger folk, but not me.
nothing but smiles from me man.
like this one.

--edit---
meh, ignored ya anyways.
adios

Meh.. dont get sucked in!..

A remote ballast from say a old warehouse light isn't a good idea, something to do with the way it starts. however I've done it myself, and it worked, the MH ballasts are easier to wire anyways. I can see the point of asking a sparky to wire those old style ballasts, the multi tap can kinda be confusing.

Anyways there are many MH only grows out there going against the grain. And putting out great looking product.
Fuck.. I got my start in the 90's to with MH. It wasn't obvious to me that the funny looking orange light was for
flowering. The commerical greenhouses of the non cannabis kind use MH.

There are no rules saying you have to use this light or youre going to fail... Have fun with whatever light you want to use, remember those LED guys back in the day?

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

My 1st go with MH the whole way produced exceptional quality. I *may* have sacrificed some yield and I do think the final product was a little bit leafier but most of the feedback I got was extremely positive. I'm doing a little experimenting right now using both and I plan to finish with the MH's. I don't have a lot of experience to draw upon but to shit on MH is pretty silly.

This was day 58 of flowering using MH basically all the way thru.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

^^^^ Thats what i'm talking about. Looks awesome...

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

i'd kill myself if i flowered solely with an MH.

Ya know...I get the your whole thing about teasing the young bucks and the inexperienced and what not. People try all kinds of silly things and you obviously have been around for a long time. But why the constant negativity? It's one thing to tease newbies asking stupid questions but its another thing entirely to ALWAYS shit on whatever somebody is doing or talking about.