LED vs HPS

hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
This is coming from a guy who thinks you should use red spectrum in veg and blue spectrum in flower. Yeah, some people.
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I never said that. I said we should use full spectrum like the sun.

I said red supresses stretching in veg and blue supresses stretching flower.

Dude wanted to know if it's ok to veg with hps. Everyone was talking out of their ass quoting an inaccurate and out of date book.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
So you're saying a 300 watt led is almost an equivalent to a 600 watt hps? I'd like to see that.

Leds are @ about 100 lumens per watt hids are around 120 lumens per watt.

Leds also produce an extremely minimal amount of uv light. Thats not a good quality in a grow lamp. We all know uv light has its benefits.
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Lumens has no place in plant growth. Lumens is visible light to the human eye.

It depends on the led too. Led produces more photons (PAR ) per watt than hps does.

600w hps on average produces 1200 umole/s for 12 inches away where a 315 w cmh produces 1360 umole/s at the same distance. My a51 150w led produces 1050 umole/s at 12 inches away. 2 of those would match a 600w on performace.

The only benefit hps has is penetration all that green wave lengths penetrating to the lower growth
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
Lumens has no place in plant growth. Lumens is visible light to the human eye.

It depends on the led too. Led produces more photons (PAR ) per watt than hps does.

600w hps on average produces 1200 umole/s for 12 inches away where a 315 w cmh produces 1360 umole/s at the same distance. My a51 150w led produces 1050 umole/s at 12 inches away. 2 of those would match a 600w on performace.

The only benefit hps has is penetration all that green wave lengths penetrating to the lower growth
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The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.

And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
I never said that. I said we should use full spectrum like the sun.

I said red supresses stretching in veg and blue supresses stretching flower.

Dude wanted to know if it's ok to veg with hps. Everyone was talking out of their ass quoting an inaccurate and out of date book.
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And you're still the only person I've heard this from. Just sayin
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.

And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?
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Dirty. You still haven't intelligently articulated how a watt is a watt with hid to LED lighting.

I hope you've learned now that telling the other member he's wrong with LEDs having more output per watt. Anyway.

My Zelion HL produces 1124 PPFD at 24". It uses less than 100 watts!!!!! Clearly that is more efficient than HID.

I don't think you can conceptualize that led technology can produce more light plants use than HID.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
The only benefit leds have over hps that is obvious to me is that the large area of light output-the diodes are spread out over the whole light fixture. The same benefit T5's have-the overall source of light is spread out, and thus, more useable.

And what is a umole? Are you talking about micromoles?
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micromole [umol]

Same same.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Dirty. You still haven't intelligently articulated how a watt is a watt with hid to LED lighting.

I hope you've learned now that telling the other member he's wrong with LEDs having more output per watt. Anyway.

My Zelion HL produces 1124 PPFD at 24". It uses less than 100 watts!!!!! Clearly that is more efficient than HID.

I don't think you can conceptualize that led technology can produce more light plants use than HID.
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Yeah, I can see how I kinda contradicted myself a little there. And the whole watt is a watt is a basic comparison between two technologies that are not as far apart as you would like. Leds may be slightly more "efficient" but at what cost? And also because its negligent to tell people that a 300 watt led is the same as a 600 watt hid, cause its not. Thats just giving bad information to gullible people everywhere.
I must not be alone when its comes to being able to "conceptualize" led technology cause most growers still prefer hid lighting.

And you can shoot out all kinds of numbers and terms(gimmicks) that are used to get people to buy overpriced lights. I do hope you realize that these companies are swindling people with these claims so they can make money. They are using the gullible to fund there research and development departments. Or they are just flat out ripping people off. One or the two or whichever makes you feel better.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Red does suppress stretch in veg. A higher R:FR ratio causes more total phytochromes to be in the form of Pfr, the active state. Cyan, green, amber, and far-red will all cause more stretch than 630-660nm red.
 
budterrorizt

budterrorizt

Member
I ran a 600hps with 2-180w led panels on each side of it..... And there was a very large difference in production. LED's work great if you do your homework and also the time. It seemed for me at least to take a couple extra weeks in both veg and bloom. But at they same time they seemed a little happier, almost like they were gettin a little more that they needed. But of course these are just what i experienced, not everyone has the same outcome!!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Red does suppress stretch in veg. A higher R:FR ratio causes more total phytochromes to be in the form of Pfr, the active state. Cyan, green, amber, and far-red will all cause more stretch than 630-660nm red.
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I run one each of HPS thouie and 860W CDM in my pre bloom veg. I see massive stretch everywhere...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
budterrorizt said:
I ran a 600hps with 2-180w led panels on each side of it..... And there was a very large difference in production. LED's work great if you do your homework and also the time. It seemed for me at least to take a couple extra weeks in both veg and bloom. But at they same time they seemed a little happier, almost like they were gettin a little more that they needed. But of course these are just what i experienced, not everyone has the same outcome!!
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Did your temperatures drop a bit? LED tends to run cooler, which might help explain why things took longer.
 
budterrorizt

budterrorizt

Member
ttystikk said:
Did your temperatures drop a bit? LED tends to run cooler, which might help explain why things took longer.
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When i was running just the leds by themselves , there was a considerable difference in temps, roughly 10-15 deg F, but i also have a small area as well so everything is noticed!! When i added the HPS along with the leds, my temps got up there very quickly. Just wihin a few hours my temps hit 95 with the existing ventialtion that inwas running. At that time inwas using a single 4" inline, but since adding and subtracting different things i had to bump up my ventilation quite a bit
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
budterrorizt said:
When i was running just the leds by themselves , there was a considerable difference in temps, roughly 10-15 deg F, but i also have a small area as well so everything is noticed!! When i added the HPS along with the leds, my temps got up there very quickly. Just wihin a few hours my temps hit 95 with the existing ventialtion that inwas running. At that time inwas using a single 4" inline, but since adding and subtracting different things i had to bump up my ventilation quite a bit
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That difference in temperature had a lot to do with speeding up your plant's cycle.
 
Darth Vapour

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Hmmmm... I call 'BULLSHIT'.

In fact, the newer COB LED chips can be run very effectively and efficiently at fractions of their rated output, in which case the mean time between failure rate goes long. Really long...

Blurple panels are disco- buy them for parties with white shoes and big collars, lol

I'm personally putting these new COB LED chips to the scalability test. I'll be the judge of whether they're ready for prime time. The way I'm doing it is by matching watts with HID over the canopy.

My bet is right about ten k. Who's in, and who's just gonna talk?
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Actually Failure rates in the cob is hard to judge considering there new what if some one clocked the cobs ???
 
D

D350

Active Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
So you're saying a 300 watt led is almost an equivalent to a 600 watt hps? I'd like to see that.

Leds are @ about 100 lumens per watt hids are around 120 lumens per watt.

Leds also produce an extremely minimal amount of uv light. Thats not a good quality in a grow lamp. We all know uv light has its benefits.
Click to expand...
600W HPS has around 150 lumens/W. Very very good and expensive leds reach 100lm/W! Usually 50lm/W up.
Although reflecting losses are less with leds. To be safe, if you want to replace hps lamp, you need at least half the wattage leds. Meaning feeding them with the wattage! Not slaping 100w with 50W power.
You are right, there are too much excitement about leds. We are not there yet.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
image.png
D350 said:
600W HPS has around 150 lumens/W. Very very good and expensive leds reach 100lm/W! Usually 50lm/W up.
Although reflecting losses are less with leds. To be safe, if you want to replace hps lamp, you need at least half the wattage leds. Meaning feeding them with the wattage! Not slaping 100w with 50W power.
You are right, there are too much excitement about leds. We are not there yet.
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Good job making up shit.

High temp led Cree cobs are getting 240LPWimage.png
 
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