Official Lolbertarian thread. Discuss the benefits of No goverment

[Rob Roy]

CHILDREN CANNOT CONSENT TO SEX WITH AN ADULT ROB
REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU HAVE SAID THEY CAN

What makes a person capable of consenting, unable to effectuate that consent?

(note- this is a generic question, and not sexually related, so you can take your hand out of your pants now)

 

[Rob Roy]

Not so. I think that children cannot consent to sex and would under no circumstances give an adult access to my daughter but Rob is different. If I found out about a situation of child abuse, I would go to great lengths to make sure that a child abuser does not continue his abuse, regardless of my association with the child or the abuser. Rob Roy has gone on and on about how other people's children can consent to sex at almost any age. He says it would be none of his business if he found out. No matter how much questioning he's gotten on this, he has been adamant that children can consent to sex with adults. It's fair to ask if his daughter has done this.

No. I've been adamant that people that CAN consent, can consent. People that can't consent, cant. I've also said I'm uncomfortable with what some people consent to. My discomfort alone doesn't mean a person is incapable of consenting though does it?

You've not said or offered proof that the act of consent occurs at a magical age for every individual. I'd say it doesn't occur at the same exact magical time for every person, what do you say?

 

[ChesusRice]

No. I've been adamant that people that CAN consent, can consent. People that can't consent, cant. I've also said I'm uncomfortable with what some people consent to. My discomfort alone doesn't mean a person is incapable of consenting though does it?

You've not said or offered proof that the act of consent occurs at a magical age for every individual. I'd say it doesn't occur at the same exact magical time for every person, what do you say?

Can a Child of 13 consent to sex with an Adult?
YES OR NO?

 

[Rob Roy]

Can a Child of 13 consent to sex with an Adult?
YES OR NO?

Maybe. No, if they are incapable of consenting. Yes, if they are capable of consenting. Either way you seem fixated on confining a discussion about what consent is, to sexual situations rather than a generic discussion. A little creepy wouldn't you say?

What makes a person capable or incapable of consenting is the question you haven't considered.

Also does that wherewithal to consent occur at the same time for EVERY person, is the question you refuse to consider, or answer.

Also why is Donatello your favorite ? Is it the purple he wears?

 

[UncleBuck]

He said they could "consent"/give permission, yet still doesn't think its right or advocate for it.

Jesus, how brain-dead are you people?

And the same people support Jewish men sucking baby dick.

Where does the irony end?

why are you siding with rob roy the pedophile?

were you his last victim?

stockholm syndrome?

 

[Glaucoma]

If a Canadian shoots my horse, I'd pull a Peter Sellers, when asked if his dog would bite, he said no. Then added something to the effect of, "that's not my dog", when a dog (not his) started biting somebody.

Now would you like to see some other chapters that might answer your questions or has your appetite for reading dwindled? You DID read the entire chapter meticulously didn't you?

So again, no answers at all, huh?

Do you keep offering other people's words because you don't understand what you are talking about or what?

 

[ChesusRice]

So again, no answers at all, huh?

Do you keep offering other people's words because you don't understand what you are talking about or what?

Racist Pedophile

 

[Padawanbater2]

They have the wherewithal to understand the responsibility and consequences of their actions / inactions. Some people arrive at that point at different times in their life. Consent to be real, is not externally formed, it is an internal function of the person providing the consent.

And how exactly do you determine that? How do you ensure the protection of parents and their children from people who would choose to do them harm in society? For example, say there is a mother and father and their 16-year-old female kid. The kid sleeps with a 25-year-old man, she says she gave consent, the parents, in particular, the father, is pissed and says the man raped his daughter and she can't give consent because she's not old enough.

Who's right? Why?

The state's very existence arises not from consent of individuals, rather from the removal of individual's consent. It's self evident if you care to be truthful in your review of the state's origin and modes of operation.

The only way a government can derive its authority is through the consent of the people it governs. There is no other way.

 

[ChesusRice]

And how exactly do you determine that? How do you ensure the protection of parents and their children from people who would choose to do them harm in society? For example, say there is a mother and father and their 16-year-old female kid. The kid sleeps with a 25-year-old man, she says she gave consent, the parents, in particular, the father, is pissed and says the man raped his daughter and she can't give consent because she's not old enough.

Who's right? Why?

The only way a government can derive its authority is through the consent of the people it governs. There is no other way.

Rob gives a pass to all the molester priests as long as the kiddies consented

 

[Fogdog]

No. I've been adamant that people that CAN consent, can consent. People that can't consent, cant. I've also said I'm uncomfortable with what some people consent to. My discomfort alone doesn't mean a person is incapable of consenting though does it?

You've not said or offered proof that the act of consent occurs at a magical age for every individual. I'd say it doesn't occur at the same exact magical time for every person, what do you say?

Rob, you are clearly saying that a 13 year old can be capable of consenting to an adult's wishes to have sex. If you want to dress it up as something complex, well then explain the complexity. Please explain the difference between one 13 year old that you would say could consent and another that you would say could not?

As for your discomfort, I have no idea what that has to do with anything.

To most non sexual predatory people in this country, if not the world, there is no complexity. The difference in maturity between a 13 year old and an adult creates an unequal relationship and is fraught with high risk of harm to the child. For this reason the adult must decide to leave the child alone. There should not even be the question of whether or not it might be OK.

You never recognize there is an older person in this situation. You insist on putting the burden of the decision on the child when the adult is the one that is best able to realize the situation and say no.

The legal age of consent is different between different states in the U.S.. But they all say that an adult over the age of 18 cannot have sex with a 13 year old even if the child agrees to it. If the adult has sex with the 13 year old, all states call it a serious offence. I do not need to prove anything. You can look it up yourself. If you disagree with this, then please answer the question in the first paragraph.

You've presented a hypothetical setting. If I had a daughter that age, is she capable of consenting is the first thing that should be determined? We don't know that from your example, do we?

Please tell me how would you answer your own question? How would you determine if she -- your hypothetical 13 year old daughter who is have a sexual relationship with a 21 year old man -- is capable of consenting?

A prohibitionist mindset is one wherein a person externalizes their thoughts into prohibitions, laws, restrictions etc. on other people that are behaving in ways that don't directly concern the prohibitionist. Malum Prohibitum, etc.

From your description I don't have a prohibitionist mindset. Do you consider objecting to child rape and using the law to prevent it a prohibitionist act? I understand that you would look the other way because "its none of my business". However, that's not exactly a harmless decision.

 

[Fogdog]

He said they could "consent"/give permission, yet still doesn't think its right or advocate for it.

Jesus, how brain-dead are you people?

And the same people support Jewish men sucking baby dick.

Where does the irony end?

So, you too are a saying that some 13 year old children can give consent. Can you please explain to me by what criteria would you know if one 13 year old child can give consent and another can't?

Or maybe I'm reading too much into your statement. Are you saying that all a sexual predator needs to get off the hook from prosecution is for the child to say they wanted it and consented?

 

[Fogdog]

I'm not comfortable with age pairings with a large differential, but if both parties are capable of consenting, how would you propose any person intervene?

I'm glad to see that you at least recognize the issue. I still don't understand why you would leave it up to the child, however. To be clear, I am posing a situation where the child is 13 and the adult is 21.

How would I intervene? Please remember we are talking about a 13 year old child having sexual relations with a 21 year old man. First, the health and well being of my daughter is the highest concern. I'd get her in to see a psychiatrist to start working through the situation and probably myself and my wife as well. Second, the offender must stop trying to contact my daughter or he'd be facing jail time immediately. I'd most certainly have the law involved to help "explain" things to him. Third, I'd consider charging the asshole, this based upon the psychiatrists findings of whether or not this would help my daughter cope with the situation. I'd drop charges if charging the asshole would make things worse for her. Nonetheless, the offender would have a restraining order, keeping him away.

I have no fantasies about taking the law into my own hands. After protecting the health and well being of my daughter, I'd use every legal means possible to make that asshole feel like the weight of the world was smashing his balls. I would also purchase a fire arm and prepare to use it in self defense if I ever saw him on my property and there were no means to safely retreat while protecting myself and my family.

 

[Harrekin]

So, you too are a saying that some 13 year old children can give consent. Can you please explain to me by what criteria would you know if one 13 year old child can give consent and another can't?

Or maybe I'm reading too much into your statement. Are you saying that all a sexual predator needs to get off the hook from prosecution is for the child to say they wanted it and consented?

Nah, I know hypothetically they could verbally consent but that don't mean shit cos they're still kids.

Mischaracterising RR's statement doesn't do any good tho.

 

[ChesusRice]

Nah, I know hypothetically they could verbally consent but that don't mean shit cos they're still kids.

Mischaracterising RR's statement doesn't do any good tho.

He has clarified his position several times
Nobody is Mischaracterising his statements at all
He has also gone on to say if you see an adult with a child having sex if it is consensual and you intervene YOU are the molester.

 

[Rob Roy]

So again, no answers at all, huh?

Do you keep offering other people's words because you don't understand what you are talking about or what?

No, I asked if you had read the entire chapter and were ready for chapter 8?


I think you have made some assumptions which may not be valid. I have a pretty good understanding of things that I discuss.

 

[Rob Roy]

He has clarified his position several times
Nobody is Mischaracterising his statements at all
He has also gone on to say if you see an adult with a child having sex if it is consensual and you intervene YOU are the molester.

No, I said a peaceful person capable of consenting to something, if they are rendered incapable of doing that something by another person that uses initiatory force, the person using the initiatory force is the molester. You invented the rest.

Since you like to invent stories here's one for you..., Prohibitionist.

Let's say there's a person, a bright 17 year old lad that has never shit on a floor at Wendy's, has never wrecklessly crashed a Honda Sabre that is way too powerful for their scrawny frame to handle or has never handed over hungry hunters (poachers oh my gawd!!) to the "authorities". He's just a normal young guy that has taken on some responsibility, albeit a couple years before some other guys his age frequently do.

This lad is capable of making good choices concerning himself and has developed the wherewithal to consent and run his own life capably. He holds a job and has his own apartment. The young lady across the hallway in the next apartment, a fine lass of 21, has expressed an interest in the bright lad. She starts off by noticing the lad looks like he might consume marijuana. She discretely asks if he can get her some and he "sells" her a small amount as a favor that he picked up from a guy he works with. She smiles and invites him in for a toke.

A prohibitionist type frequently seen in a car bearing Wisconsin license plates happens to be hanging around the neighborhood and is temporarily employed as a janitor in the apartment complex. The prohibitionist janitor is also a cheesy peeping tom that has frequently been in police lineups and he overhears the transaction while rummaging thru the garbage one floor below The prohibitionist scurries off, ratlike, to get a cop, being a prohibitionist he can't wait to rat them out for illegally "transacting". ( He thinks a good law would criminalize sales.)

When he comes back with the thug / cop, they hear moaning coming from the young ladies apartment and realize that the young couple after consuming a joint might be getting their freak on. The peeping tom prohibitionist from Wisconsin cashes in on his peeping tom experience and immediately drops to his well worn knees and peers leeringly thru the key hole he's kneeling in front of.

He sees the young lady and the young man are locked in a slippery consensual embrace on the couch doing the horizontal bop. He realizes the young man has a much larger wang than he does, but by now the Peeping Tom Prohibitionist from Wisconsin has learned to live with the sad fact that most people he spies on are genetically more endowed than he is. The ratlike prohibitionist unconsciously and acting out of habit, reaches his own hand into his pants and starts pulling his meager pud, then quickly realizes the cop is there with him. The cop being a sociopath then asks the prohibtionist if he wants to go out to his cruiser and they can eat donuts and play hide the baton.

Everybody lives happily ever after. The end.


What do you think, Prohibitionist?

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm glad to see that you at least recognize the issue. I still don't understand why you would leave it up to the child, however. To be clear, I am posing a situation where the child is 13 and the adult is 21.

How would I intervene? Please remember we are talking about a 13 year old child having sexual relations with a 21 year old man. First, the health and well being of my daughter is the highest concern. I'd get her in to see a psychiatrist to start working through the situation and probably myself and my wife as well. Second, the offender must stop trying to contact my daughter or he'd be facing jail time immediately. I'd most certainly have the law involved to help "explain" things to him. Third, I'd consider charging the asshole, this based upon the psychiatrists findings of whether or not this would help my daughter cope with the situation. I'd drop charges if charging the asshole would make things worse for her. Nonetheless, the offender would have a restraining order, keeping him away.

I have no fantasies about taking the law into my own hands. After protecting the health and well being of my daughter, I'd use every legal means possible to make that asshole feel like the weight of the world was smashing his balls. I would also purchase a fire arm and prepare to use it in self defense if I ever saw him on my property and there were no means to safely retreat while protecting myself and my family.

You sure like to talk about these kinds of scenarios. I wish it were more reassuring when you say you have no fantasies, but I'm afraid the repeated scenarios you suggest are very troubling to me. I'd rather talk about consent in a more generic way than entertain your fantastic and illicit stories. You're scaring me a little bit.

I recognize one issue you have is you haven't answered when you believe you reached an age where you could provide consent. So, how old were you, when you became self aware enough to control your own body?

At which age did you develop the wherewithal to knowingly consent to things that affect you?

 

[Rob Roy]

And how exactly do you determine that? How do you ensure the protection of parents and their children from people who would choose to do them harm in society? For example, say there is a mother and father and their 16-year-old female kid. The kid sleeps with a 25-year-old man, she says she gave consent, the parents, in particular, the father, is pissed and says the man raped his daughter and she can't give consent because she's not old enough.

Who's right? Why?

The only way a government can derive its authority is through the consent of the people it governs. There is no other way.

Question for you first...

Do you think the ability to consent is 100% consistent in that ALL people develop the same way at the same time chronologically ?

If you answer yes, to the above, which age is the magical age wherein ALL people develop the wherewithal to consent?



Concerning your statement about the government, it is factually incorrect. Governments, for the most part, are involuntary and do not permit individuals to not be encompassed. If you'd like to argue that one, go for it.

 

[Harrekin]

He has clarified his position several times
Nobody is Mischaracterising his statements at all
He has also gone on to say if you see an adult with a child having sex if it is consensual and you intervene YOU are the molester.

Im actually just gonna back away from this one, as a purely intellectual conversation I can understand RR's view, but I disagree from a practical point of view.

 

[Rob Roy]

why are you siding with rob roy the pedophile?

were you his last victim?

stockholm syndrome?