Just stumbled across this while searching Ben Carson on Youtube

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I don't give a shit how good looking the president is, that's not something I'm at all concerned with which was the question; what you believed the qualifications for the president should be
Yes, what they should be is different than the reality of what they really are.

It sucks, but I challenge you to refute it. Too many studies out there say different.

Negative campaigning has been shown to work too, which is why part of me is rooting for Sanders. He refuses to play that way and has much respect from me for it. Will it work? Hope so, doubt it.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Yes, what they should be is different than the reality of what they really are.

It sucks, but I challenge you to refute it. Too many studies out there say different.

Negative campaigning has been shown to work too, which is why part of me is rooting for Sanders. He refuses to play that way and has much respect from me for it. Will it work? Hope so, doubt it.
Even tho we aren't rooting for the same candidate we can all still get along and discuss the topics.

Why divide ourselves?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Even tho we aren't rooting for the same candidate we can all still get along and discuss the topics.

Why divide ourselves?
Sorry for the confusion. I don't think Sanders has a chance but I like the character he's shown. His policies are childlike. He's also been in politics for 40 years but you would think he's an outsider that just arrived if you listen to his supporters. He's an outsider that's been on this inside for decades, not buying it.

My bitch is with the average voter. We've all seen the videos of people supporting policies of the "other" candidate as long as they are told it's from their candidate. They don't like their own candidates policies if it's presented as the "other guy's" policies.

Most people are not like those who participate in politics forums.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the confusion. I don't think Sanders has a chance but I like the character he's shown. His policies are childlike. He's also been in politics for 40 years but you would think he's an outsider that just arrived if you listen to his supporters. He's an outsider that's been on this inside for decades, not buying it.

My bitch is with the average voter. We've all seen the videos of people supporting policies of the "other" candidate as long as they are told it's from their candidate. They don't like their own candidates policies if it's presented as the "other guy's" policies.

Most people are not like those who participate in politics forums.
My statement was to everyone reading. Not you =).

It is odd to me that a well respected pediatric brain surgeon who has been invited to speak at government events is made fun off for not having any government experience. So he never held an office.. that doesn't mean he isn't capable.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
My statement was to everyone reading. Not you =).

It is odd to me that a well respected pediatric brain surgeon who has been invited to speak at government events is made fun off for not having any government experience. So he never held an office.. that doesn't mean he isn't capable.
Carson is another man I have high respect for. I disagree with his religious stuff, some of his policy ideas are a bit whacky for my tastes but I don't see a better candidate out there.


This is me waiting for a candidate I think deserves to be POTUS.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
My statement was to everyone reading. Not you =).

It is odd to me that a well respected pediatric brain surgeon who has been invited to speak at government events is made fun off for not having any government experience. So he never held an office.. that doesn't mean he isn't capable.
I haven't heard anyone make fun of him because he doesn't have any government experience, I've heard people make fun of him because he says dumb things, and those dumb things should be made fun of
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I haven't heard anyone make fun of him because he doesn't have any government experience, I've heard people make fun of him because he says dumb things, and those dumb things should be made fun of
I see it a lot. I see it mostly from people who got pissed when Obama's lack of experience was brought up and screamed RACIST!.

I also see a lot of the same people who criticized Obama's lack of experience defending Carson's, so there's that.

Team sports are awesome in sports, sucks in politics.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I see it a lot. I see it mostly from people who got pissed when Obama's lack of experience was brought up and screamed RACIST!.

I also see a lot of the same people who criticized Obama's lack of experience defending Carson's, so there's that.

Team sports are awesome in sports, sucks in politics.
In any case, lack of experience seems like a legitimate criticism to me, I just haven't really seen it for Carson. Seems like there's plenty to criticize in his platform
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It really is a catch-22. We don't want status-quo of career politicians but don't trust somebody in politics unless they are career politicians.
I don't distrust politicians because they're politicians, I distrust politicians when they do shady shit deserving of my distrust. Being a career politician doesn't make you corrupt, being a shitty person in a government job for yourself makes you corrupt, and an asshole. Abraham Lincoln was a career politician and he's generally held as one of the best presidents in American history.
 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
Like what?
1) Fetal tissue research.

2) Likening Obama to slavery, then when the media criticizes him about it saying, "I never said that, the PC media said I said that."

“It is slavery because it aims to make all of us subservient to the government,” he said. “It was never about health care. It was about control.” He then later says, "What I was trying to say but the liberal media distorted my remarks was …."

3) He made some weird Nazi allegations, later recanted them.

"The people in Nazi Germany largely didn't believe in what Hitler was doing. But they didn't say anything? Of course not, they kept their mouth shut. The fact that our government is using instruments of government like the IRS to punish its opponents, this is not the kind of thing that is a Democrat or a Republican issue. This is an American issue ... A lot of people do not feel free to express themselves."

"You are just focusing on the words Nazi Germany and completely missing the point of what I said," Carson told Blitzer. "And that's the problem right now. That's what 'PCism' is all about. You may not say this word regardless of what your point is because if you say that word, I go into a tizzy."

4) When he was asked if there were other things that were worse in US history, say 9/11 he goes... "I think it's nonproductive to get into worse than this or worse than that, or maybe it's better than this or better than that. That's not the point of what I'm saying. The point is a major fundamental shift of power has occurred."

5) He said no Muslim should ever be allowed to become President (violation of Article 6 of the Constitution and the 1st Amendment to the Bill of Rights, try to argue this all you want, anyone, it's still a violation of the Article 6 and the 1st Amendment so before any debate starts: No, you're wrong, shut up, learn our Constitution :)).

“I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.”

6) He completely misquoted Thomas Jefferson. "So all you’re going to do is create more vulnerability, as Thomas Jefferson said. He said the people who are going to be disadvantaged are the ones who are law-abiding." If you watch the video you can see he completely can't remember what he's even saying by the way he avoids eye contact and keeps blinking while he talks.

7) Remember when he said this, "our Congress actually has the right to reprimand or remove them [Judges]." Dangerous statement, because you can't remove judges from the Supreme Court because they made a ruling you disagree with. They can only be impeached for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

8) He's called gay marriage a Marxist plot, doesn't believe in equal protection under the law by saying that gay people don't get to define what marriage is, and said that prison - yes prison - turns people gay. "...[G]o into prison straight – and when they come out, they’re gay..."

9) He doesn't believe in a thing called international humanitarian law, or the laws of war. "If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war,” he said. “Other than that, we have to win." While I know there are going to be people saying, "Blah blah blah he's right, why should we have rules in warfare if our enemies don't follow them." a) Protected our soldiers in WWII b) Any future conflict if we abide by the laws of war, the other side if it's a major nation should also c) We instigated the fucking Nuremberg trials, we are the nation that led the charge on defining what is a war crime and what is not and the contribution the United States has made to human rights is amazing, why would we ever want to go back on that completely? d) It will keep our soldiers safe in the future. The moment we decide that all rules are out is the moment any country gets to decide on us that all rules are out.

10) He made the absurd claim that the Obama Administration is purposely depressing the economy to keep people on welfare. "...perhaps some of the things that are going on right now which could be easily remedied are not being remedied in order to keep the economy depressed because there would be no appetite for many of the social programs if people were doing well." Every economic indicator says otherwise, no matter how much you dislike it. If anything Bush is to blame on this one.

11) He thought/thinks Obama is going to declare martial law to suspend elections (wtf?) "Certainly there’s the potential because you have to recognize that we have a rapidly increasing national debt, a very unstable financial foundation, and you have all these things going on like the ISIS crisis that could very rapidly change things that are going on in our nation. And unless we begin to deal with these things in a comprehensive way and in a logical way there is no telling what could happen in just a couple of years."

12) He thinks that teaching civil disobedience in AP History courses will lead to joining ISIS. "I think most people when they finish that course, they’d be ready to go sign up for ISIS."

13) He thinks if someone is caught of voter fraud they should have their citizenship stripped and be deported rather than be tried under the law. "Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked."

14) He thinks it's "condescending" that low-income Americans shouldn't pay their “fair share” of taxes, because “poor people have pride, too” and “don’t want to be just taken care of.” Let's just ignore that someone who earns say in his example $10 billion and gets taxed $1 billion feels that less than someone who makes $10 and is taxed $1 (hint: Before an argument starts about this, again, it's called purchasing power. $9 billion goes sooooo much farther than $9, it's math).

15) When he was on The Andy Parks Show he suggested that protests against police violence helps ISIS and Al Qaeda.

16) He said that the women's liberation movement created a "me generation" which leads to police shootings.

17) Back to the balance of powers between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches, he thinks that the Executive branch can just ignore the judicial branch - which is another dangerous statement. "We have to understand how the Constitution works — the president is required to carry out the laws of the land, the laws of the land come from the legislative branch... So if the legislative branch creates a law or changes a law, the executive branch has a responsibly to carry it out. It doesn’t say they have the responsibility to carry out a judicial law." [in regards to equal marriage]

18) "When we do things like have our Attorney General and our President say, ‘marijuana is not that bad, I used it and look how I turned out,’ well that’s the problem. Instead of smoking pot and listening to songs like “Happy” all day, Carson said Americans should focus on the real issues of the day…like Benghazi." So he tied pot smoking, "Happy" by Pharrel Williams, and Benghazi. I wish I could make this up because it's comedy gold.

19) He's called Obama a Communist (before someone argues this: No, you're wrong and if you think this you have no concept of what a communist is so shut up, sit down, don't embarrass yourself).

Yeah... that's my list of "Stupid Shit Ben Carson Has Said" that padawanbater2 was getting at. I sometimes wish I made this up, but it's all just a google away.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
1) Fetal tissue research.

2) Likening Obama to slavery, then when the media criticizes him about it saying, "I never said that, the PC media said I said that."

“It is slavery because it aims to make all of us subservient to the government,” he said. “It was never about health care. It was about control.” He then later says, "What I was trying to say but the liberal media distorted my remarks was …."

3) He made some weird Nazi allegations, later recanted them.

"The people in Nazi Germany largely didn't believe in what Hitler was doing. But they didn't say anything? Of course not, they kept their mouth shut. The fact that our government is using instruments of government like the IRS to punish its opponents, this is not the kind of thing that is a Democrat or a Republican issue. This is an American issue ... A lot of people do not feel free to express themselves."

"You are just focusing on the words Nazi Germany and completely missing the point of what I said," Carson told Blitzer. "And that's the problem right now. That's what 'PCism' is all about. You may not say this word regardless of what your point is because if you say that word, I go into a tizzy."

4) When he was asked if there were other things that were worse in US history, say 9/11 he goes... "I think it's nonproductive to get into worse than this or worse than that, or maybe it's better than this or better than that. That's not the point of what I'm saying. The point is a major fundamental shift of power has occurred."

5) He said no Muslim should ever be allowed to become President (violation of Article 6 of the Constitution and the 1st Amendment to the Bill of Rights, try to argue this all you want, anyone, it's still a violation of the Article 6 and the 1st Amendment so before any debate starts: No, you're wrong, shut up, learn our Constitution :)).

“I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.”

6) He completely misquoted Thomas Jefferson. "So all you’re going to do is create more vulnerability, as Thomas Jefferson said. He said the people who are going to be disadvantaged are the ones who are law-abiding." If you watch the video you can see he completely can't remember what he's even saying by the way he avoids eye contact and keeps blinking while he talks.

7) Remember when he said this, "our Congress actually has the right to reprimand or remove them [Judges]." Dangerous statement, because you can't remove judges from the Supreme Court because they made a ruling you disagree with. They can only be impeached for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

8) He's called gay marriage a Marxist plot, doesn't believe in equal protection under the law by saying that gay people don't get to define what marriage is, and said that prison - yes prison - turns people gay. "...[G]o into prison straight – and when they come out, they’re gay..."

9) He doesn't believe in a thing called international humanitarian law, or the laws of war. "If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war,” he said. “Other than that, we have to win." While I know there are going to be people saying, "Blah blah blah he's right, why should we have rules in warfare if our enemies don't follow them." a) Protected our soldiers in WWII b) Any future conflict if we abide by the laws of war, the other side if it's a major nation should also c) We instigated the fucking Nuremberg trials, we are the nation that led the charge on defining what is a war crime and what is not and the contribution the United States has made to human rights is amazing, why would we ever want to go back on that completely? d) It will keep our soldiers safe in the future. The moment we decide that all rules are out is the moment any country gets to decide on us that all rules are out.

10) He made the absurd claim that the Obama Administration is purposely depressing the economy to keep people on welfare. "...perhaps some of the things that are going on right now which could be easily remedied are not being remedied in order to keep the economy depressed because there would be no appetite for many of the social programs if people were doing well." Every economic indicator says otherwise, no matter how much you dislike it. If anything Bush is to blame on this one.

11) He thought/thinks Obama is going to declare martial law to suspend elections (wtf?) "Certainly there’s the potential because you have to recognize that we have a rapidly increasing national debt, a very unstable financial foundation, and you have all these things going on like the ISIS crisis that could very rapidly change things that are going on in our nation. And unless we begin to deal with these things in a comprehensive way and in a logical way there is no telling what could happen in just a couple of years."

12) He thinks that teaching civil disobedience in AP History courses will lead to joining ISIS. "I think most people when they finish that course, they’d be ready to go sign up for ISIS."

13) He thinks if someone is caught of voter fraud they should have their citizenship stripped and be deported rather than be tried under the law. "Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked."

14) He thinks it's "condescending" that low-income Americans shouldn't pay their “fair share” of taxes, because “poor people have pride, too” and “don’t want to be just taken care of.” Let's just ignore that someone who earns say in his example $10 billion and gets taxed $1 billion feels that less than someone who makes $10 and is taxed $1 (hint: Before an argument starts about this, again, it's called purchasing power. $9 billion goes sooooo much farther than $9, it's math).

15) When he was on The Andy Parks Show he suggested that protests against police violence helps ISIS and Al Qaeda.

16) He said that the women's liberation movement created a "me generation" which leads to police shootings.

17) Back to the balance of powers between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches, he thinks that the Executive branch can just ignore the judicial branch - which is another dangerous statement. "We have to understand how the Constitution works — the president is required to carry out the laws of the land, the laws of the land come from the legislative branch... So if the legislative branch creates a law or changes a law, the executive branch has a responsibly to carry it out. It doesn’t say they have the responsibility to carry out a judicial law." [in regards to equal marriage]

18) "When we do things like have our Attorney General and our President say, ‘marijuana is not that bad, I used it and look how I turned out,’ well that’s the problem. Instead of smoking pot and listening to songs like “Happy” all day, Carson said Americans should focus on the real issues of the day…like Benghazi." So he tied pot smoking, "Happy" by Pharrel Williams, and Benghazi. I wish I could make this up because it's comedy gold.

19) He's called Obama a Communist (before someone argues this: No, you're wrong and if you think this you have no concept of what a communist is so shut up, sit down, don't embarrass yourself).

Yeah... that's my list of "Stupid Shit Ben Carson Has Said" that padawanbater2 was getting at. I sometimes wish I made this up, but it's all just a google away.
:clap:
 

GreatwhiteNorth

Global Moderator
Staff member
Why would anyone want one of those jobs anyway?

Oh wait, I think I see a correlation here.



One Member of Congress = 18 American Households: Lawmakers’ Personal Finances Far From Average
by Russ Choma on January 12, 2015
It would take the combined wealth of more than 18 American households to equal the value of a single federal lawmaker’s household, the Center for Responsive Politics’ latest analysis of congressional wealth finds.

The median net worth of a member of Congress was $1,029,505 in 2013 — a 2.5 percent increase from 2012 — compared with an average American household’s median net worth of $56,355. Once again, the majority of members of Congress are millionaires — 271 of the 533 members currently in office, or 50.8 percent.



While the median net worth of an American family has declined by nearly one-third between 2007 and 2013, members of Congress have recovered quite well from the recession. The Senate’s median net worth went from $2.3 million to $2.8 million over that period, while for members of the House the numbers went from $708,500 to $843,507.

Not all members of Congress are millionaires. While there are seven whose net worth is in the nine figures, totaling at least $100 million, there are two dozen who are in the minus column.

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2015/01/one-member-of-congress-18-american-households-lawmakers-personal-finances-far-from-average/
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Why would anyone want one of those jobs anyway?

Oh wait, I think I see a correlation here.



One Member of Congress = 18 American Households: Lawmakers’ Personal Finances Far From Average
by Russ Choma on January 12, 2015
It would take the combined wealth of more than 18 American households to equal the value of a single federal lawmaker’s household, the Center for Responsive Politics’ latest analysis of congressional wealth finds.

The median net worth of a member of Congress was $1,029,505 in 2013 — a 2.5 percent increase from 2012 — compared with an average American household’s median net worth of $56,355. Once again, the majority of members of Congress are millionaires — 271 of the 533 members currently in office, or 50.8 percent.



While the median net worth of an American family has declined by nearly one-third between 2007 and 2013, members of Congress have recovered quite well from the recession. The Senate’s median net worth went from $2.3 million to $2.8 million over that period, while for members of the House the numbers went from $708,500 to $843,507.

Not all members of Congress are millionaires. While there are seven whose net worth is in the nine figures, totaling at least $100 million, there are two dozen who are in the minus column.

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2015/01/one-member-of-congress-18-american-households-lawmakers-personal-finances-far-from-average/
Jesus, look at that shit.. 2.5% increase in one year, meanwhile the average American worker has seen a 6.5% increase (aka wage stagnation) over the course of 55 years...
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I don't distrust politicians because they're politicians, I distrust politicians when they do shady shit deserving of my distrust. Being a career politician doesn't make you corrupt, being a shitty person in a government job for yourself makes you corrupt, and an asshole. Abraham Lincoln was a career politician and he's generally held as one of the best presidents in American history.
I admit my opinion of politicians is different but that doesn't mean I think you are wrong or am I right, it's just based on opinion so....

I automatically distrust someone who pursues position of power over other people's lives. If you've made your lively-hood in the DC bubble there is no possible way to really understand a life outside of DC.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I admit my opinion of politicians is different but that doesn't mean I think you are wrong or am I right, it's just based on opinion so....

I automatically distrust someone who pursues position of power over other people's lives. If you've made your lively-hood in the DC bubble there is no possible way to really understand a life outside of DC.
Idk man, call me naive if you want, but I just don't believe every politician is in it to control other people. That's not what it is, it's a system of organization that has to operate as effectively as possible in order to provide the sort of lifestyle 330 million Americans rely on. Is that to say it's perfect? Of course not, but nothing ever is, that's why we have the ability and obligation to change things in order to form a more perfect Union.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Idk man, call me naive if you want, but I just don't believe every politician is in it to control other people. That's not what it is, it's a system of organization that has to operate as effectively as possible in order to provide the sort of lifestyle 330 million Americans rely on. Is that to say it's perfect? Of course not, but nothing ever is, that's why we have the ability and obligation to change things in order to form a more perfect Union.
Not calling you naive at all. I know some people go into it for altruistic reasons. I also believe power corrupts and the longer people are in politics the more corrupt they become (admit there are exceptions, but it's such a small small percentage).

I also think it's impossible to create a one-sized fits all government for 330 million and we should stop trying. Local governments should have more input into an individuals life than the central planners. It gives people opportunities to affect change. A huge central power gives us no such ability.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Not calling you naive at all. I know some people go into it for altruistic reasons. I also believe power corrupts and the longer people are in politics the more corrupt they become (admit there are exceptions, but it's such a small small percentage).

I also think it's impossible to create a one-sized fits all government for 330 million and we should stop trying. Local governments should have more input into an individuals life than the central planners. It gives people opportunities to affect change. A huge central power gives us no such ability.
But, but...

They'll legalise racism and gay bashing!

Think of the childrenz!!!
 
Top