Is financial success more often a result of hard work or a consequence of circumstances?

[qwizoking]

financial success isnt the top 1% that i feel somehow being pushed towards.
having massive amounts of money takes a little more than than effort and intelligence in todays time. atleast fpr the average person. but also where does the intelligence come from

striking oil and essentially creating the town of corsicana tx is how much of my family made its money. putting it in wills that no land could be sold for x generations helped too. that kind of financial success.. having 50,000 acres, oil checks, and a 500 head working angus ranch is impossible without previous gens help. mining for limestone, putting up turbines kept even more money flowing



but when i see this thread i think success in the sense of, upper middle. you have a house, take vacations, yu can buy your kid a car when they turn 16 etc.

there is no reason, atleast in the United states you couldn't achieve this. its not hard to get through college, pick a degree that pays and go to work. make a cool 80-150k and your fine.
just how much effort your really willing to put in

 

[ttystikk]

financial success isnt the top 1% that i feel somehow being pushed towards.
having massive amounts of money takes a little more than than effort and intelligence in todays time. atleast fpr the average person. but also where does the intelligence come from

striking oil and essentially creating the town of corsicana tx is how much of my family made its money. putting it in wills that no land could be sold for x generations helped too. that kind of financial success.. having 50,000 acres, oil checks, and a 500 head working angus ranch is impossible without previous gens help. mining for limestone, putting up turbines kept even more money flowing



but when i see this thread i think success in the sense of, upper middle. you have a house, take vacations, yu can buy your kid a car when they turn 16 etc.

there is no reason, atleast in the United states you couldn't achieve this. its not hard to get through college, pick a degree that pays and go to work. make a cool 80-150k and your fine.
just how much effort your really willing to put in

Except that over half of all jobs Americans are working RIGHT NOW pay less than $30k, so your numbers don't square with the reality on the ground.

 

[qwizoking]

there cant be more pimps than hos.
of course statistics say that..sorry if you dont like that example

there are many times more base level jobs. there are tons of tacobell employees, less dms, even fewer regional managers and fewer market coaches etc going up the ladder
the base employees didnt go to college, some didnt graduate hs.

that really has nothing to do with being smart with time and money, going to school, putting effort and getting into a field that pays.
i know the market coach for taco bel in the southern united states, a good friend of mine. guess what, he has a background in business and fpr some reason, marketing

if your one of the many americans who did nothing with themselves and expected wealth to b spread evenly you are sure misguided.

the middl class is dying

 

[ttystikk]

there cant be more pimps than hos.
of course statistics say that..sorry if you dont like that example

there are many times more base level jobs. there are tons of tacobell employees, less dms, even fewer regional managers and fewer market coaches etc going up the ladder
the base employees didnt go to college, some didnt graduate hs.

that really has nothing to do with being smart with time and money, going to school, putting effort and getting into a field that pays.
i know the market coach for taco bel in the southern united states, a good friend of mine. guess what, he has a background in business and fpr some reason, marketing

if your one of the many americans who did nothing with themselves and expected wealth to b spread evenly you are sure misguided.

the middl class is dying

You just implied that entry level jobs are not worth a living wage. I disagree.

The middle class is dying- I agree with this. I think we disagree on causes and consequences.

 

[bravedave]

Except that over half of all jobs Americans are working RIGHT NOW pay less than $30k, so your numbers don't square with the reality on the ground.

Does the $30k include only full time people or anybody who got at least 1 paycheck in that year? You know the bottom 50% pay no federal income taxes, right?

 

[UncleBuck]

Does the $30k include only full time people or anybody who got at least 1 paycheck in that year? You know the bottom 50% pay no federal income taxes, right?

nice talking point, ritt momney, but i always paid plenty of federal income taxes when i was making less than $30k.

 

[UncleBuck]

Once again the enabler,propagandist attempts to perpetuate falsehoods. My study was from 2013, jackass.

what study?

you haven't cited shit.

not so brave dave.

 

[bravedave]

what study?

you haven't cited shit.

not so brave dave.

Nor has the person I called bullshit on. Do your own research, otherwise you just look like the asswipe we have come to expect.

 

[UncleBuck]

Nor has the person I called bullshit on. Do your own research, otherwise you just look like the asswipe we have come to expect.

looks like 60% or more of the forbes 400 inherited their wealth. only 35% came from poor or middle class backgrounds.

that kinda makes you look stupid, now doesn't it?

http://faireconomy.org/press_room/2012/report_says_forbes_400_misleads_about_wealth_and_opportunity

LOL!

 

[ttystikk]

Once again the enabler,propagandist attempts to perpetuate falsehoods. My study was from 2013, jackass.

Then cite it. And do try to leave the namecalling out of it if you'd like to retain any credibility at all.

 

[ttystikk]

Once again the enabler,propagandist attempts to perpetuate falsehoods. My study was from 2013, jackass.

And a jackass is a valuable farm animal. Not only can it plow fields and provide fertilizer, but they're great at running off coyotes!

How many of those traits do you share- other than providing plenty of bullshit?

 

[bravedave]

looks like 60% or more of the forbes 400 inherited their wealth. only 35% came from poor or middle class backgrounds.

that kinda makes you look stupid, now doesn't it?

http://faireconomy.org/press_room/2012/report_says_forbes_400_misleads_about_wealth_and_opportunity

LOL!

Stupid is not knowing the difference between an apple and an orange.

 

[ttystikk]

Listen tty, you feeble, hypocritical, f$@k, liking a post where Uncle Puke calls me stupid opens you up to the same. Associating yourself with that creepy thing likens you to the rest of his flying monkeys. Actually thought you were better than that.

So did I. I'll leave you to @UncleBuck's tender mercies.

 

[UncleBuck]

Listen tty, you feeble, hypocritical, f$@k, liking a post where Uncle Puke calls me stupid opens you up to the same. Associating yourself with that creepy thing likens you to the rest of his flying monkeys. Actually thought you were better than that.

aren't you the guy who called uncle ben a "class act"?

the same uncle ben who says "the only good muslim is a dead muslim", the one who cheers when innocent blacks are shot dead, the one who demeans mexicans and hispanics regularly, calling them "wetbacks"?

aren't you hispanic too or something, not so brave dave? what do you think of uncleben calling you a wetback and saying you should go back to mexico, even if that's not where you're from?

what you don't realize is that i use my venom for good, to poison shitheads like you and your racist buddies.

btw, global warming is real and manmade, not a hoax by NASA.

 

[ChesusRice]

“They were not easy years. You have to understand, I was raised in a lovely neighborhood, as was Mitt, and at BYU, we moved into a $62-a-month basement apartment with a cement floor and lived there two years as students with no income.

“It was tiny. And I didn’t have money to carpet the floor. But you can get remnants, samples, so I glued them together, all different colors. It looked awful, but it was carpeting.

“We were happy, studying hard. Neither one of us had a job, because Mitt had enough of an investment from stock that we could sell off a little at a time.

“The stock came from Mitt’s father. When he took over American Motors, the stock was worth nothing. But he invested Mitt’s birthday money year to year — it wasn’t much, a few thousand, but he put it into American Motors because he believed in himself. Five years later, stock that had been $6 a share was $96 and Mitt cashed it so we could live and pay for education.

“Mitt and I walked to class together, shared housekeeping, had a lot of pasta and tuna fish and learned hard lessons.

…

“We had our first child in that tiny apartment. We couldn’t afford a desk, so we used a door propped on sawhorses in our bedroom. It was a big door, so we could study on it together. And we bought a portable crib, took the legs off and put it on the desk while we studied. I had a baby sitter during class time, but otherwise, I’d hold my son on my lap while I studied.

“The funny thing is that I never expected help. My father had become wealthy through hard work, as did Mitt’s father, but I never expected our parents to take care of us. They’d visit, laugh and say, `We can’t believe you guys are living like this.’ They’d take us out to dinner, have a good time, then leave.

“We stayed till Mitt graduated in 1971, and when he was accepted at Harvard Law, we came east. He was also accepted at Harvard Business School as part of a joint program that admits 25 a year, so he was getting degrees from Harvard Law and Business schools at the same time.

“Remember, we’d been paying $62 a month rent, but here, rents were $400, and for a dump. This is when we took the now-famous loan that Mitt talks about from his father and bought a $42,000 home in Belmont, and you know? The mortgage payment was less than rent. Mitt saw that the Boston market was behind Chicago, LA and New York. We stayed there seven years and sold it for $90,000, so we not only stayed for free, we made money. As I said, Mitt’s very bright.

“Another son came along 18 months later, although we waited four years to have the third, because Mitt was still in school and we had no income except the stock we were chipping away at. We were living on the edge, not entertaining. No, I did not work. Mitt thought it was important for me to stay home with the children, and I was delighted.

“Right after Mitt graduated in 1975, we had our third boy and it was about the time Mitt’s first paycheck came along. So, we were married a long time before we had any income, about five years as struggling students. …

“Now, every once in a while, we say if things get rough, we can go back to a $62-a-month apartment and be happy. All we need is each other and a little corner and we’ll be fine.”
-Ann Romney on struggling

Yeah and about 400k in todays dollars worth of stock stupid cunt

 

[spandy]

Well, I guess it is a matter of the definition of success? Parker made 3 mil which basically makes him wealthy. The other guys made 60-80k.... Parker could retire tomorrow if he managed his money well, go buy a house and a brand new vehicle and live decently the rest of his life. None of his workers could.

All true, but not one of those workers is paying for even the oil changes on those D10's.

I see what you are getting at though.

I was alluding to the "eat the rich" crowd that thinks a doctor working crazy hours saving lives should be lumped in with wallstreet execs

Doctors dont make enough to be under that radar.

I pay a hell of a lot more taxes than someone making 40 or 50k a year , shouldn't someone making 100 million pay a hell of a lot more than someone making a million?

The rich SHOULD own a 2nd home on the lake, but shouldn't we rig it so they can't own the whole fucking lake?

.

 

[ginwilly]

Doctors dont make enough to be under that radar.

I pay a hell of a lot more taxes than someone making 40 or 50k a year, shouldn't someone making 100 million pay a hell of a lot more than someone making a million?

.

Most doctors and pretty much all surgeons fall in that 1%. If we raise the tax on the "rich", they are lumped in with that group.

Someone making a 100 million SHOULD pay more, but they don't, and they won't even if you raise payroll tax.

Here's an easy solution, if your income is solely from investments, tax it like income, because it is. Real estate used to have the same status as hedge-fund guys but in the 80's that was fixed. You used to be able to flip 100 houses a year and count it as capital gains. The tax code was changed to where if you gain more than 50% of your income from real estate sales, then it's classified as income. We could do the same for investment bankers, hedgefund managers (the Buffetts and Dimons of the world) and see a significant rise in their pay but nobody is willing to do this. The game is rigged.

One reason I don't think this will ever happen is because raising the income tax on the rich shuts up the "eat the rich" crowd. It really shouldn't, but shows how ignorant the masses are.

 

[Wavels]

By definition capital gains tax is levied upon money which has already been taxed (because it was declared, and then taxed as ordinary income).
Then...
This "taxed" money is subsequently invested.
If it produces a monetary gain, then it is taxed again.
It makes no sense to me that this money should be repeatedly taxed...it seems to me that this disincentives investment which would otherwise assist in growing the overall economy.

 

[Wavels]

But in response to the OP...

Financial success is a combination of good luck, while engaging in hard work.

Not all who work hard make it to the successful category...bad luck may ofttimes raise it's ugly head...however...
without the hard work component, good luck will only provide you with lottery winnings.

 

[althor]

By definition capital gains tax is levied upon money which has already been taxed (because it was declared, and then taxed as ordinary income).
Then...
This "taxed" money is subsequently invested.
If it produces a monetary gain, then it is taxed again.
It makes no sense to me that this money should be repeatedly taxed...it seems to me that this disincentives investment which would otherwise assist in growing the overall economy.

It is not repeatedly taxed, only the profit made from that money is taxed. If you invest 100 and make 125, only the 25 is taxed.