Germinated seeds, told to dig them up and germ them again!

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
Okay, so about a week ago. I started germinating a few northern light seeds using the paper towel method.

After a few days, they grew their taproots... Not very long about 2cm long at most. I then decided to plant them in some coco coir professional plus in some small plastic containers. About 4 days after that they hadn't sprouted...

I've bought the seeds from a site called "Sensi seeds" and they told me on the phone to dig them up, and put them back into a paper towel and let them sit for upto 2 weeks!!

Any ideas on what I should do?
 

covert222

Well-Known Member
Why in the eff would you germ seeds 2 weeks? Don't want to be one of those people cause I know there's still a lot I don't know but I would think this screams of madness
 

lawlrus

Well-Known Member
Surely the breeder Sensi Seeds is not ignorant enough to say something like that. I take it this is some fly-by-night online stoner-ran "seedbank" operation? If your seeds grew "tails" then they were viable to begin with, so if you had not seen them breaking surface after 4 or more days, it's safe to assume that you did something wrong when you planted them.

What is your environment? (Temperature, humidity, lighting)
What is your media? Just straight coco or mixed?
What are you watering with and how much?

Explain your planting method in detail. Then, take a look at the post I made in another thread below for an excellent and foolproof method for planting seeds in coco.

It took me a couple tries but once I got the technique down, I won't ever go back to anything else for seed starting. The pH of the water really isn't important at this stage (in my experience), and the idea that you should never let coco dry out is also something you want to ignore until they are established with a solid root system...the cycle of wet to dry to wet again encourages the root growth. I have never had a seed that did not show a tail within a day or two of soaking that was not viable with this seed starting method. The only seeds I have ever seen not pop with this are the ones that probably weren't viable to begin with, but your mileage may vary. Here's the technique I use:

-Soak 24-48 hours (not necessary, but speeds the process along a bit) until you have a 1/4"-1/2" tail

-Tap water, 1/3 strength coco nutes (in my case 5ml each Canna A and Canna B). In my case, tap water and using the coco-specific line of nutrients from Canna at or below the recommended 15ml/gal dilution has always produced excellent results across the ideal range of pH for coco, from the mid to high 5's to the low 6's. YMMV depending on the mineral content of your tapwater, but I do know that Canna and probably other coco nutes as well call for tapwater specifically over R/O.

-For containers, you can go with seedling trays or small plug-sized cups to start out with if you really want, but I recommend you just cut to the chase and start them in the initial container (for me, this would be a 4" pot until the first transplant)

-What you want to do is run enough of the nutrient/water solution through the coco to get a considerable amount of runoff, maybe up to 100-200% runoff, and then squeeze it until it is about as dry as you can get it by hand. Couple different ways to do this: for smaller amounts of coco, an old pillow case works wonderfully as a "strainer" and then you can squeeze it to get the water out. If you're planting a ton, or transplanting into larger pots (this works brilliantly for that as well, same exact process) and need to do a bigger batch at once, go spend $5-8 at your local Wally World for either a very fine mesh or cloth laundry bag and use it the same way as the pillow case. Either way, you want the coco to be just moist enough to feel it, but not so wet that it leaves water on your fingers.

-Plant as per usual, keep the humidity at a nice comfortable level for seedlings/vegging plants/humans (50-70% is fine), and don't even worry about humidity domes or anything as they aren't necessary.

-If all went well, you will see seeds breaking surface within 24-36 hours, maybe 2 days at most.

That's it. I don't mean to oversell it here, but this technique has saved me so much heartburn and so many hundreds of dollars in seeds since I learned it that I can't help it.

One caveat here -- I have not tried this without nutrients, as the conventional wisdom of coco is that you never water without feeding at the same time, but I suspect that you can get by just fine with regular non-phed tap water until the cotyledon starts to yellow. If transplanting, I would probably guess that you want to at least do the 1/3 strength nutes as described above. When in doubt, less is more, so feeding on the lighter side is usually a good bet regardless of what stage you're at with coco.
 

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
Surely the breeder Sensi Seeds is not ignorant enough to say something like
that. I take it this is some fly-by-night online stoner-ran "seedbank" operation? If your seeds grew "tails" then they were viable to begin with, so if you had not seen them breaking surface after 4 or more days, it's safe to assume that you did something wrong when you planted them.

What is your environment? (Temperature, humidity, lighting)
What is your media? Just straight coco or mixed?
What are you watering with and how much?

Explain your planting method in detail. Then, take a look at the post I made in another thread below for an excellent and foolproof method for planting seeds in coco.
I used the paper towel method, pouring water on the paper towel every 6-12 hours for about 4 days in a dark cupboard.

Saw the taproots, put them directly into small containers with a mix coco and a little perlite. (Professional Plus COCO coir)

About a knuckle deep, I put the seeds into the pots. Watered with about 50-100ml of water with pH down liquid to get 6.0. It was originally 7.9pH. (Tap water)

I then put them under
400w Metal halide lights under a humidity dome roughly 50cm away from the pots, 70 degrees farenheit around 50% humidity.
I used the 18/6 method.

Anyhow the seeds never sprouted, and I believe they stopped growing once I put them into the coco coir. I dug them up they had no root system after a good 4 days. Nothing happened. I guess they just died :/ I water them once every 2 days. With about 15-30ml of water. Not much

I have no idea what I did wrong. Maybe the lights idk

I've given up trying to grow anything, I guess I need to read more..
 

Andrew2112

Well-Known Member
I have had this happen before as well as I have come to the conclusion that the seeds were old. So old that they must have only had enough energy to sprout a small taproot but not enough to grow out into cotyledons. Otherwise you may have broken off the taproot which can be easy to do, especially if you leave it in the paper towel too long. I usually put mine in the soil as soon as the tip of the root shows.
 

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
I have had this happen before as well as I have come to the conclusion that the seeds were old. So old that they must have only had enough energy to sprout a small taproot but not enough to grow out into cotyledons. Otherwise you may have broken off the taproot which can be easy to do, especially if you leave it in the paper towel too long. I usually put mine in the soil as soon as the tip of the root shows.
Alot of people say the taproot must be atleast 1/4" to 1/2" do you think that is a good rule to go by or is it just a myth?

Have you had any difference growing a plant that has a smaller taproot while growing compared to a longer taproot?
 

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
I dont know why all these seed banks advocate this paper towel method,personally I think its unnecessary.Too easy to damage the taproot and just overcomplicates the simple system nature has been using for millennia.
 

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
I dont know why all these seed banks advocate this paper towel method,personally I think its unnecessary.Too easy to damage the taproot and just overcomplicates the simple system nature has been using for millennia.
Hey mate, those seeds I tried to grow ended up dying/rotting :cry:

Any idea what I did wrong? Or what I should do next time when the replacement order comes through
 

tripleD

Well-Known Member
I'm very new to the grow game but I've had perfect results so far by soaking my seeds in a glass of water for 24hrs & then putting them in damp paper towels until ready to plant... (10 times i've done this & 10 times It's worked).
I use FFOF soil in 5gal smart pots & I PREWATER the soil with RO water 24 hours before I put the germ seed in & then I put a shot of RO water on them everyday for the next 4-5 days until the pot is dry & ready to be watered again...
This is the method that I was taught & it works great for me in my particular situation! good Luck!!
 

tripleD

Well-Known Member
I'm very new to the grow game but I've had perfect results so far by soaking my seeds in a glass of water for 24hrs & then putting them in damp paper towels until ready to plant... (10 times i've done this & 10 times It's worked).
I use FFOF soil in 5gal smart pots & I PREWATER the soil with RO water 24 hours before I put the germ seed in & then I put a shot of RO water on them everyday for the next 4-5 days until the pot is dry & ready to be watered again...
This is the method that I was taught & it works great for me in my particular situation! good Luck!!
I almost forgot... I also put my prewatered 5gal smart pot under a 400w hps for the 24hrs before I plant so that the medium will be warm & ready.
* Be sure to point seed with tap root UP!! I was told that this is very important & so far it has worked for me. GL
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Okay, so about a week ago. I started germinating a few northern light seeds using the paper towel method.

After a few days, they grew their taproots... Not very long about 2cm long at most. I then decided to plant them in some coco coir professional plus in some small plastic containers. About 4 days after that they hadn't sprouted...

I've bought the seeds from a site called "Sensi seeds" and they told me on the phone to dig them up, and put them back into a paper towel and let them sit for upto 2 weeks!!

Any ideas on what I should do?
You stuck em in too deep. A knuckle is like an inch. What you do is keep them in the paper towel until the root is out a good 1/4" and then you put them in the grow medium so that just the cotyledons, or the seed coat if it's still on, are above the medium. Then you put a little medicine cup or protein scoop over it to keep it moist while letting light reach it. Shortly it will open the cots and they'll turn green and then you remove the cup. Of course you could use plastic wrap or something but I find the protein scoops work well. I cut the handles off to make them more compact.

Incidentally, you mentioned you have NL seeds. I recently got both NL and NLxBB, the latter from World of Seeds. The NL turned out to be a runt and the NLxBB is a monster. Both smelled the same too. Same rank smell. I eventually pulled the NL and chucked it because it was too pathetic. Neither reached ripeness yet. I have smoked some of the unripe buds from NLxBB and it seems quite satisfactory. It's at least as good as any of the others I have. Should be killer when ripe in a couple weeks. Slow to root but I didn't use hormone.

Point being, you might want to try an NL cross instead of pure NL. Pure NL is an inbred strain and as such it is genetically weakened. Same with Skunk #1. You're lucky if you find a really vigorous one. A lot of them are very sluggish. Blueberry is another example. Inbred strains will never perform like a hybrid.
 
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BobCajun

Well-Known Member
I almost forgot... I also put my prewatered 5gal smart pot under a 400w hps for the 24hrs before I plant so that the medium will be warm & ready.
* Be sure to point seed with tap root UP!! I was told that this is very important & so far it has worked for me. GL
No it's baloney, put the tap root down. Yes, they can go up and then loop back down but that takes extra energy. I always just stick the tap root down and it works perfectly.
 

Feisty1UR

Well-Known Member
No it's baloney, put the tap root down. Yes, they can go up and then loop back down but that takes extra energy. I always just stick the tap root down and it works perfectly.
Are 400w MH lights necessary for newly planted seeds, Won't it damage the taproots? People say to use lights, and some say not to. I'm getting mixed up on what I should do :wall: I'll definitely use the protein scoop dome thing next time for sure!
 

tripleD

Well-Known Member
No it's baloney, put the tap root down. Yes, they can go up and then loop back down but that takes extra energy. I always just stick the tap root down and it works perfectly.
Here is what I've been taught...
1) "The preferred natural way for a cannabis seed to sprout is tip end/tap root end, oriented up."
Edited by JustanOldALJ, 29 December 2011 - 06:12 PM.
2)
 

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Hey mate, those seeds I tried to grow ended up dying/rotting :cry:

Any idea what I did wrong? Or what I should do next time when the replacement order comes through
Assuming the seeds started out good,id say you drown them in the cup by leaving in water too long or you kept the soil too wet or too dry.These things are weeds it doesnt take much for them to sprout.This is not a magic plant,how many corn and wheat seeds do farmers germinate in paper towels every year? None... its just bullshit that us stoners do to seeds for some reason.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Here is what I've been taught...
1) "The preferred natural way for a cannabis seed to sprout is tip end/tap root end, oriented up."
Yeah I know the references say that, but in reality I find that the roots like to grow straight out. I do see the logic of planting root up though. That way the curved part of the root pulls the embryo upward at it straightens and the soil holds the seed coat back so the cotyledons are pulled out of the seed coat. It doesn't always work out that way if the seeds are old though. They don't have enough vigor to grow that much root before they get light.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Are 400w MH lights necessary for newly planted seeds, Won't it damage the taproots? People say to use lights, and some say not to. I'm getting mixed up on what I should do :wall: I'll definitely use the protein scoop dome thing next time for sure!
Just use a 40w CFL, or something close to that. They don't need a 400w mh until they're well established, like 8" tall.
 

tripleD

Well-Known Member
Yeah I know the references say that, but in reality I find that the roots like to grow straight out. I do see the logic of planting root up though. That way the curved part of the root pulls the embryo upward at it straightens and the soil holds the seed coat back so the cotyledons are pulled out of the seed coat. It doesn't always work out that way if the seeds are old though. They don't have enough vigor to grow that much root before they get light.
Ok, Thanks! I'm still trying to figure out for myself who & what to believe about this issue & so so so many others....
I think at this point I'm in line with your way of thinking, where, as long as the seed is healthy it will most likely grow no matter which way you plant it.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Ok, Thanks! I'm still trying to figure out for myself who & what to believe about this issue & so so so many others....
I think at this point I'm in line with your way of thinking, where, as long as the seed is healthy it will most likely grow no matter which way you plant it.
I must admit that sometimes the seed coat does stay on the embryo after it's above ground when planted root down. I just find a lot of seeds lack vigor and the root only grows out a little so I need to get the cots up and open as quickly as possible, which means positioning them so they're right at the surface and light can reach them through the covering of plastic or clear cup.
 
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