Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Institutional forced segregation and institutional forced integration are both things I can't endorse. You endorse one of them...half wit.
Why don't black and white Americans live together ?
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UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
that wasn't the question.
you endorse a policy which was once legal in america, the denial of service to people based on their skin color. you want to make it legal once again for businesses to deny service to people on the sole basis of race.
so can you name one single historian who shares your opinion that racial segregation was not harmful to the blacks who were denied service by racists like you?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Your line of questioning presupposes that I think the same institution that used force to ensure segregation and then later changed to force integration has any legitimacy. I don't.
It's like asking a person that is an Atheist to describe which bible passage has the most meaning to them etc.
I endorse a policy of letting individuals run their lives, but not others lives. You on the other hand, have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
your whining and sniveling presupposes that the government actually forced gas stations to not serve blacks. or auto mechanics. or hotels, or other places. it did not.
seriously, what good will happen if it is legal for racist whites like you to deny service to black customers once again?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Can a person(s) delegate a right they do not possess?
I can't. Neither can you, neither can anyone. Strike the Root, dear boy.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you saying you have a right to deny service to people based on their race?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I am saying I have a right to engage in a relationship only with those people that mutually agree to the relationship. It's like the difference between rape and making love.
Check mate (again) and good night, Poopy Pants.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
don't open a public store then, because we all saw the harm that caused when racists like you decided that you did not have to provide service to your black customers.
and naturally, you do not have a right to harm others because you are racist. that right does not exist, segregationist.
yep, opening a store and then having a black guy walk in there and having to sell to him whatever you are selling to white people is a bit like rape i suppose.
selling goods and services to black people in the same manner that you sell them to white people is kinda like having someone stick their penis in your ass without an invitation.
checkmate indeed.
you are the answer to the title of this thread.
Lord Kanti
Well-Known Member
Legal segregation in the US may have ended more than 50 years ago. But in many parts of the country, Americans of different races aren't neighbours - they don't go to the same schools, they don't shop at the same stores, and they don't always have access to the same services.
In 2016 the issue of race will remain high on the agenda in the United States. The police killings of unarmed black men and women over the past few years reignited a debate over race relations in America, and the reverberations will be felt in the upcoming presidential election and beyond.
Ferguson, Baltimore and Chicago are three cities synonymous with racial tensions - but all three have another common denominator. They, like many other American cities, are still very segregated.
In my reporting across the United States I've seen this first hand - from Louisiana to Kansas, Alabama to Wisconsin, Georgia to Nebraska. In so many of these places people of other races simply don't mix, not through choice but circumstance. And if there's no interaction between races, it's harder for conversations on how to solve race problems to even begin.
Newly released census data, analysed by the Brookings Institution, shows black-white segregation is modestly declining in large cities, but it remains high. If zero is a measure for perfect integration and 100 is complete segregation, analysis from Brookings showed most of the country's largest metropolitan areas have segregation levels of between 50 to 70.
According to the Brookings report, "more than half of blacks would need to move to achieve complete integration".
(Some have pointed out that the wording of this part of the report itself highlights the challenges in these issues - why can't this be measured in the number whites who would have to move?)
Racial and socioeconomic segregation are closely linked - if you're a black person in America, you're more likely than a white person to live in an area of concentrated poverty.
This isn't simply a matter of choice, or chance. Some of it is by design - and down to decades-old housing policies which actively prevented African Americans from living in certain areas.
Kansas City is one of the country's most segregated cities. Drive around the west of Troost Avenue and there are large houses, their vast porches overlooking equally vast driveways. Properties are anything from $356,000 (£243,000) to $1.2m.
But you only have to go east to see a very different picture. Abandoned houses and unkempt lawns greet you at most corners. One building I pass is completely boarded up, with piles of rubbish outside, and the words "Stay Out" in spray paint.
The housing on either side of Troost is very much split down race lines.
The US government had a hand in this creating this segregation due to practices it instituted back in the 1930s, which prevented many blacks from getting on the property ladder in certain areas.
When the federal government began underwriting home loans for Americans to help boost the economy as part of the New Deal, strict guidelines were drawn up regarding where mortgages could be issued.
Areas where minorities lived were seen as risky investments and black families were routinely denied mortgages, locking them out of the housing market.
The practice was known as redlining because red ink marked out the minority areas. As Kansas City-based historian Bill Worley explained to me, these policies continued right into the 1960s, and excluded American blacks from one of the greatest motors of wealth in the 20th Century - home ownership.
Redlining is now theoretically outlawed in the United States, and has been since the 1970s, but it's still happening to this day.
"Banks continue to build and structure their lending operations in a way that avoids or fails to meaningfully serve communities of colour, based on assumptions about the financial risk," Vanita Gupta, the justice department's top civil rights lawyer, said last September, as she pledged more action to stop discriminatory lending.
Another factor which made access to housing prohibitive were the restrictive racial covenants written into housing contracts.
Until 1948, it was perfectly legal for a black person to be prevented from buying or living in a house.
Bill Worley showed me an example of a restrictive racial covenant drawn up in Kansas City by the city's best known property developer during that time, JC Nichols.
"None of the said lots shall be conveyed to, used, owned nor occupied by Negroes as owner or tenants," it read. Other groups, including Jews, were also written into these kind of contracts.
The covenants created affluent white suburbs for middle- and upper-income families. By World War One, Nichols met developers in other cities who were also doing this. Huge new all-white suburbs sprang up across the country and the migration of white families to the suburbs became known as white flight.
Between redlining, racial covenants, and another practice known as blockbusting - where estate agents specialised in transitioning areas from white to black - segregation continued in the United States
Residential segregation in America peaked in 1970. More black families are moving into the suburbs and back to Southern cities they left after slavery ended, explains economic historian Leah Boustan.
"It may seem odd because we have stereotypes of the South, but residential segregation levels are lowest in Southern cities such as Atlanta, Houston and Dallas," she says.
But even though Atlanta is one of the least segregated cities in the United States, challenges persist.
On a visit to the city I met Nicole and Lewis Anderson, two African Americans who work in corporate jobs.
They told me they'd been profiled by estate agents, who've only shown them homes in certain "black" areas.
"When we started out we had a few whites in our area, but within a few years they all moved out,"
said Lewis Anderson.
"For us African Americans when we see a group of white people move to the neighbourhood we think that's good, we're cool with that. But for many white families that's not the case - they start to get discouraged, they start to worry about the property value and leave."
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Lewis and Nicole aren't alone in being encouraged to live in so-called "black" areas. Research from the US government shows that minorities looking for housing are shown fewer properties than their white counterparts.
The Fair Housing Act was passed more than 40 years ago to end discrimination in housing, but it's not been properly enforced.
Last year President Obama pledged to toughen up this law, with new rules. Now government money can only be given for new housing projects if they're shown to further integration in neighbourhoods, and there'll be penalties for those who don't adhere to this. But it only applies to public housing. Private developers can continue to build without such conditions.
"The Fair Housing Act commanded that communities that received government money do what they can to affirmatively further fair housing," Housing Secretary Julian Castro told me in an interview.
"The problem was that for many years that requirement was never adequately defined or enforced."
Mr Castro, who sits in the president's cabinet and is widely tipped as a possible Democratic vice-presidential running mate in this year's election, said one way his department will ensure areas of poverty aren't ignored is by giving towns and cities access to demographic data, so they can plan housing better.
The key challenge remains - decades on from the civil rights movement, many black and white Americans simply don't mix. And as the US contends with race problems, getting to know each other better is one step in understanding and fixing some of those problems.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35255835
TL;DR: Why do Chinese Americans live in Chinatown?
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
I think a summary of the entire thing was that allegedly banks priced non-white people out of the market in certain areas because they were apparently of smaller means.
Strange tho, because that happens here in a 98% white country.
It's not so much a racial thing, more so a "you can't afford to live there" thing.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
If you put uncle buck on Ignore it changes the whole nature of the forum. You are able to have a relatively peaceful discussion with people.
All playing aside. UncleBuck, if you were to get a job and keep it for over a year, you will start to take some pride in yourself and you won't hate yourself so much. Depending on your spouse to pay for you really hurts you. When you start to provide for yourself, you will stop hating yourself and in the same breath you will stop hating others, especially minorities. I don't even understand why you hate minorities so much, you have completely isolated yourself into all white America, minorities have no effect on you whatsoever and still you wake each morning hating, with venom just dripping from you. It must suck to be so low in life that hate is the only feeling you can muster. Go get a job and keep it.
red w. blue
Well-Known Member
You make it sound like unclebuck is a low life. That a few steps up for him!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
One of my degrees is Sociology and when studying ethnic groups, assimilation and such it boils down to a simple concept - "familiarity breeds comfort."
Legal segregation in the US may have ended more than 50 years ago. But in many parts of the country, Americans of different races aren't neighbours - they don't go to the same schools, they don't shop at the same stores, and they don't always have access to the same services.
As an aside like many of the latinos crossing the border, most illegally, Muslim immigrants will and do refuse to assimilate.
The Japanese understand the problems cultural diversity brings to a society and accordingly strive to maintain their exclusionary mono culture. Same can be said of the indigenous Hawaiians and others.
Opposites do NOT attract.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I will cede to your experience of having people stick their penis in your ass without your invitation, I'll make no comment on that, and return to the contradictory ideas you have expressed.
We agree that neither of us would decide to run our business in ways that base discrimination on race, which should be
our choice. I mean, I would never tell another person how to run their life or their business and assume you aren't a controlling douche bag that thinks he has that right.
However that raises a question, if neither you or I own a given property, it could be said that we have no right to exercise control over THAT property OR of the OWNER of that property. So if we have no right to run OTHER peoples property or force them to use their bodies in ways they prefer not to, we can't confer that right, since we don't have it....
...So where does the government get the right to do those things if people can't confer a right they don't have?
You seem to be studiously avoiding the question. Here, I'll ask it again..,
Can a person(s) delegate a right they do not possess?