MrStickyScissors
Well-Known Member
seems to me no one that we ellect is presidential material. And if we do they are shot.
Donald Trump
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Fogdog
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Ok, so I think we agree that Hitler pretty much the set standard of evil-doer for second half of the last century. Stalin set the standard for the first half but that's another story. In both cases, they suppressed churches, minorities and anybody that said things counter to their rule.
Annoyance alert: I'm going to annoy you by bring up the subject of this thread, Trump
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/29/politics/donald-trump-new-jersey-muslims-celebrating-9-11/index.html
"Washington (CNN)Donald Trump is insisting he was right that thousands of Muslim-Americans in New Jersey celebrated 9/11, despite being confronted with lack of evidence he's correct."
What Trump said when given the chance to back away from his lie:
"You have a huge Muslim population between Paterson and different places and Jersey City -- an unbelievable, large population," he said, adding Muslims at soccer games and "all around the world" celebrated the attacks.
"Why wouldn't it have taken place?"
This did not take place in the US. Is it surprising that a small number -- 8 or maybe 12 -- people celebrated in New Jersey? No. But Trump is doubling down on his lie that he saw -- on TV -- thousands of Muslims from that "huge Muslim population" in New Jersey celebrating the deaths of thousands of people, many of whom would be neighbors. He is basically calling them traitors, he is lying and he's using a strategy straight out of Mein Kamp. I don't see how anybody can support a demagogue and hate monger-er like this.
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MrStickyScissors
Well-Known Member
I bet my dick that there was more than 12 that had a grin on there face
Not GOP
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Stop being such a pessimist. You don't know that Republicans will hold all three branches of government, even if Trump does win the white house. You're just being paranoid
doublejj
Well-Known Member
The Republicans have been very vocal about their agenda & platform. I'm not def or blind...
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't want your dick, I'm just not that way, so you'll have to find another taker for that bet. But OK, more than 12 people then. Would you up your estimate to thousands and thousands openly celebrating in the streets then?
Whether it was 12 or 20 or even 100 people in NJ celebrating the collapse of the WTC, is not even what Trump was alluding to. Remember, Trump said there was a huge population of Muslims in NJ and "Why wouldn't they have done this?".
He's saying that Muslims are different from you and I and that they can't be trusted. They are traitorous followers of the nation of Islam. I call that hate mongering, a lie and an appeal to the worst kind of politics ever. Trump is not stupid or inept. He meant to do this and did it for his gain.
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pnwmystery
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what makes him unqualified to be President. He's running for the highest office of the United States. How comfortable would you be with someone who hasn't even gone to dental school yet extracting your tooth? Or maybe a pre-med student doing surgery on you?
Sure, you can say "He's been a CEO of his company." That's the thing though: It's his company he's been CEO of. The United States government does not operate exactly like a business.
We've tried this before, a couple of times, it didn't really work out well.
Not GOP
Well-Known Member
In the New York Post in September of 2011, Fred Siegel wrote,
Here in New York, it was easy to get angry listening to Egyptians, Palestinians and the Arabs of nearby Paterson, N.J., celebrate as they received word of the murderous attack in New York and Washington. But Mayor Giuliani (who has been tireless and magnificent in this crisis) rightly warned New Yorker-ers that is would be wrong to take their anger our on the city’s Arab and Muslim residents. Attacks on Arab-Americans in Paterson or elsewhere are utterly indefensible.
Here in New York, it was easy to get angry listening to Egyptians, Palestinians and the Arabs of nearby Paterson, N.J., celebrate as they received word of the murderous attack in New York and Washington. But Mayor Giuliani (who has been tireless and magnificent in this crisis) rightly warned New Yorker-ers that is would be wrong to take their anger our on the city’s Arab and Muslim residents. Attacks on Arab-Americans in Paterson or elsewhere are utterly indefensible.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What Trump said when given the chance to back away from his lie:
"You have a huge Muslim population between Paterson and different places and Jersey City -- an unbelievable, large population," he said, adding Muslims at soccer games and "all around the world" celebrated the attacks.
"Why wouldn't it have taken place?" Is this not an attack, questioning the loyalty of Americans that are Muslims living in Paterson?
What Fred Siegel wrote: "Attacks on Arab-Americans in Paterson or elsewhere are utterly indefensible."
I agree with Fred
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Not GOP
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The Republicans and Trump are two different animals. I'm @Not GOP interested in a Republican Bush candidate either. With Trump we can get rid of common core, lower taxes on working class families, and strengthen our economy by not allowing other countries to take advantage of us anymore. And they don't even respect us. With Trump, we can create jobs and expand the middle class. Right now you have a Republican congress who caters to big oil and sells out the American people with that horrible omnibus bill. With The Don, Republicans will have a new leader. Somebody to keep special interest and lobbyists in check. Somebody who represents the best interest of the American people. Not China, Japan, and Mexico
MrStickyScissors
Well-Known Member
yep, got to get rid of common core.
I was in NJ when 9/11 occurred..I could see the tower smoke..no one and I mean no one was celebrating. It was very, very quiet..all you could hear were the birds.. no one on the roads/air..a look of shock and disbelief was what you saw..even from Muslim community.
A beautiful September morning pre fall thinking about mountain biking that weekend..the horror unfolded before me as I was getting ready for work..the world changed that day.
Not GOP
Well-Known Member
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said on Tuesday that there were celebrations in New York City after the 9/11 attacks. "We did have some celebrating,” Giuliani said on CNN. “That is true. We had pockets of celebration, some in Queens, some in Brooklyn.”
Giuliani said the number of people could have been up to 40.
“10, 12, 30, 40,” he estimated.
Giuliani said the number of people could have been up to 40.
“10, 12, 30, 40,” he estimated.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Uhh, yeah. Those people were scary.
I'm atheist but I'm not anti-religion. Separating the supernatural from the other elements of religion, religion is a collection of memes that instruct peoples of that faith how behave. Much of the laws and ethical guidelines that we live by in US and Canada come from Judeo-Christian values. And, I'm glad that we are taught that it is wrong to lie, kill, steal and so forth. Indian society is based upon Buddhist and Hindu values, which also teach that it is wrong to kill and steal but with a somewhat different viewpoint. Large and complex societies cannot exist without people understanding how to interact and work with others. So, religion is not "bad" but it may be time for us to come up with a different way to get people to live together.
It doesn't surprise me that people of different faiths clash. Its not too different from the behavior of teenage girls that ostracize another girl because she is a "slut". They are protecting the status quo that they live by and reject somebody that lives by different rules. One of dynamics of our time is that people are moving large distances and bring their own religion along with all the other cultural norms into close proximity of others. So, we are going to see what happens next. I don't know what that is. I do know that we can get along if we can agree to work together.
Zealots of any faith can't accept any other way than their own. Its the zealots, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Communist, Atheist, etc. and those that would use them that I oppose. From his posting, I think this is something that @Not GOP can agree upon
Fogdog
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In your opinion, why did Trump say that thousands upon thousands in New Jersey were celebrating?
nitro harley
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You shouldn't be so narrow minded. I just look at the whole world of muslims celebrating in the streets after 911. You want to focus on New Jersey like an idiot that can't see past a statement of the problem. These refugee's are coming from the very streets that did have thousands and thousands of muslims celebrating in the street or rooftops, where ever the fuck they come from. TRUMP!
Not GOP
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So far we have dozens in Patterson New Jersey. Let's say 3 dozen. Plus another dozen in New Jersey at an apartment complex where Muslims suspected in the first world trade center attack were located (model of the world Trade Center was found on the roof where celebrations occured). Plus another 40 in Brooklyn and Queens. That brings our total up to 88 so far. So let's keep the ball rolling, because I'm not done yet.
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Fogdog
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Would it be fair of me to interpret what said to be that New Jersey Muslims are the same as those in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Do you actually think you can get the number over 1000? Or as the Donald said, thousands upon thousands, so maybe 5000?
MrStickyScissors
Well-Known Member
openly maybe not. Behind closed doors you know they were
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