does underfeeding affect bud size?

[whitebb2727]

Sorry to jump in, I fed bloom and PK boost as soon as I saw pistils. And have been giving bloom and boost ever since. I'm at 6 weeks in flower now and my buds are not what I'd like them to be.

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As said don't push the bloom so hard. You are better off to stay with a balanced npk all the way through.

Try less pk next time.

Also it looks healthy. Let it grow. Longer veg next time.

 

[bobdagrowah]

Next feeding and one time - use say,,um,,,,triple the suggested amount of PK boost and see what bulking is about!

I got beastie bloomz high n p and k so instead of using weeks 3 n 4 should I use at 5 and 6 or follow the instructions on the label

 

[kmog33]

As said don't push the bloom so hard. You are better off to stay with a balanced npk all the way through.

Try less pk next time.

Also it looks healthy. Let it grow. Longer veg next time.

I agree with this. I run veg Nutes all the way through cycle save for the last week and a half or so. Lower the ratio, but it's there. I like when I chop and my plants still look healthy.

I also see all these guys blasting bloom boosters high in pk and getting burn and lockout and thinking the burn is ok because it's minor and it was when their buds would've swelled anyway. I have a couple strains that do need high p week 6. But only once and I just augment my 3 part ratios to solve it. It's be funny to see any of these guys run a full cycle with healthy plants rather than borderline tox. Then they would know how the plants are really supposed to grow and stop over nuting. It's also an expensive habit lol.

I love seeing guys that brag about high ppm. I'm like, great you forced your plant to build up an ability to tolerate(barely) extremely high feed ratios you're giving it... That seems like more work for the plant than just having a balanced nute regimen and growing to me.


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[hondagrower420]

I agree with this. I run veg Nutes all the way through cycle save for the last week and a half or so. Lower the ratio, but it's there. I like when I chop and my plants still look healthy.

I also see all these guys blasting bloom boosters high in pk and getting burn and lockout and thinking the burn is ok because it's minor and it was when their buds would've swelled anyway. I have a couple strains that do need high p week 6. But only once and I just augment my 3 part ratios to solve it. It's be funny to see any of these guys run a full cycle with healthy plants rather than borderline tox. Then they would know how the plants are really supposed to grow and stop over nuting. It's also an expensive habit lol.

I love seeing guys that brag about high ppm. I'm like, great you forced your plant to build up an ability to tolerate(barely) extremely high feed ratios you're giving it... That seems like more work for the plant than just having a balanced nute regimen and growing to me.


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If you seen the ec that, say, tomatoes farmers feed at, you would revise you statement.

2.4 is not considered a high ec at all. This is a myth on cannabis forums.

But then again I understand npk ratios and how nutrients excite each other.

For a novice grower high ec is hard to achieve without knowing how "tune" you nutrient profile.

I feed at what some would consider a high ec. I don't see burn or anything and achieve desired results.

I don't feed at the ec I want, I feed at what ec my plants want. And yes, they do tell you what they want. All of this of course is in regards to hydro. Higher ec in soil will cause build up and you would need to leech you soil throughout your grow.

 

[kmog33]

If you seen the ec that, say, tomatoes farmers feed at, you would revise you statement.

2.4 is not considered a high ec at all. This is a myth on cannabis forums.

But then again I understand npk ratios and how nutrients excite each other.

For a novice grower high ec is hard to achieve without knowing how "tune" you nutrient profile.

I feed at what some would consider a high ec. I don't see burn or anything and achieve desired results.

I don't feed at the ec I want, I feed at what ec my plants want. And yes, they do tell you what they want. All of this of course is in regards to hydro. Higher ec in soil will cause build up and you would need to leech you soil throughout your grow.

I don't think I ever mentioned what ppm/ec any strain should be run at as all strains are different and take a different feed regimen. If you aren't burning, you're not who I was talking about. I have run some strains that take well over 2k ppm, but most ime are good in the 600-1000 range(dwc btw).

My point was mostly pointed towards new growers that try to boost their ppm/ec without understanding how or why.

When supplementing with co2 feeding regimens also go way up ime.


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[hondagrower420]

I don't think I ever mentioned what ppm/ec any strain should be run at as all strains are different and take a different feed regimen. If you aren't burning, you're not who I was talking about. I have run some strains that take well over 2k ppm, but most ime are good in the 600-1000 range(dwc btw).

My point was mostly pointed towards new growers that try to boost their ppm/ec without understanding how or why.

When supplementing with co2 feeding regimens also go way up ime.


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Agreed. I get it like in the car game everybody know each sticker you have adds 100hp. Noobs think high ec equals big potent buds.

That is why I mentioned nute profile. It is way more important that ec. First, watch your plant. Second watch your meter. But the key is understanding how the nutes interact with the plant, the "medium" and themselves.

I get told that my 2.4 full flower ec is to much. So, sorry if I got a little defensive. I was quick to jump to a conclusion.

I believe that less is more approach is great and proven. It's the best advice that you can give to a noob. Makes shit simple.

What gets lost if that you can push them to their limit safely and easily if you have an understanding of the mechanisms at work.

I run dwc. And you can tailor your nutes perfectly. Bottles actually work in dwc. Soil is just to buffered for me.

I feed a little extra pk in veg to help bulk roots before flower. So many tricks once you really get it.

 

[hondagrower420]

Fuck shit. I need to proof read. I'm sorry guys. I'm high. I fixed all those fuckups.

I just started using my old Kindle fire and it is lame.

 

[kmog33]

Agreed. I get it like in the car game everybody know each sticker you have adds 100hp. Noobs think high ec equals big potent buds.

That is why I mentioned nute profile. It is way more important that ec. First, watch your plant. Second watch your meter. But the key is understanding how the United interact with the plant, the "medium" and themselves.

I get told that my 2.4 full flower ec is to much. So, sorry if I got a little defensive. I was quick to jump to a conclusion.

I believe that less is more approach is great and proven. It's the best advice that you can give to a moon. Makes shit simple.

What gets lost if that you can push them to their limit safely and easily if you have an understanding of the mechanisms at work.

I run dwc. And you can tailor your nutes perfectly. Birthday actually work in dwc. Soil is just to buffered for me.

I feed a little extra pk in veg to help bulk roots before flower. So many tricks once you really get it.

I agree for the longest time I grew without meters and it worked great, knowing how to read he pants is key. At this point I use a meter mostly because I run testers for a few different breeders and need to report back on production and such lol.


I have used b12 in the past in the way you use pk for the roots lol. I think the difference is taking a plant to its potential vs pushing a plant to its tox limits lol. There's no set ppm/ec so there can't be a "too high".

For new growers the kiss method is best. As you gain more experiment and knowledge you start to change grow style/nute regimens etc to fit the plants you're growing. But if you did all that before you had a reason to I think there lies the problem, adding things to aid and benefit your grows once you know what you're doing and why you're doing it is great. But id never give the advice to do it unless that specific circumstance called for it. Which is hard to know from a not first hand perspective. So I'll usually say lose the additives and boosters until whoever it may be has their setup and strain mostly dialed.


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[hondagrower420]

I have used b12 in the past in the way you use pk for the roots lol. I think the difference is taking a Oma t to its potential vs pushing a plant to its tox limits lol. There's no set ppm/ec so there can't be a "too high".

For new growers the kiss method is best. As you gain more experiment and knowledge you start to change grow style/nute regimens etc to fit the plants you're growing. But if you did all that before you had a reason to I think there lies the problem, adding things to aid and benefit your grows once you know what you're doing and why you're doing it is great. But id never give the advice to do it unless that specific circumstance called for it. Which is hard to know from a not first hand perspective. So I'll usually say lose the additives and boosters until whoever it may be has their setup and strain mostly dialed.


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Yeah. B12 is organic correct? I don't use organics in my rez. I am on muni water that is chlorinated, so that would be pointless.

Back to op, I have ran side by side test of the same nute profile with varying concentrations. Yes, underfunding will affect bud size.

But, plants under shit lighting will fees lower than the same plant under adequate lighting. It's all relative.

Imvho, your plants are suffering because of the removal of your fan leaves. Did you remove the for a reason? I should say, were they dying and that's why you took them off?

 

[kmog33]

Yeah. B12 is organic correct? I don't use organics in my rez. I am on muni water that is chlorinated, so that would be pointless.

Back to op, I have ran side by side test of the same nute profile with varying concentrations. Yes, underfunding will affect bud size.

But, plants under shit lighting will fees lower than the same plant under adequate lighting. It's all relative.

Imvho, your plants are suffering because of the removal of your fan leaves. Did you remove the for a reason? I should say, were they dying and that's why you took them off?

I would just spray the roots of clones when I transplanted from cloner to permanent home. Never in the Rez .

And I agree with you point. Balance is key.

Nutes/light/water/heat/humidity.

Growers try to make up for the lack of some aspects by roiding out others. You're better off with a balance of all. Get your system in check. You're plant can't utilize the food you're giving it if there isn't enough light to photosynthesize or you water/air parameters are so out of whack your plants system aren't working correctly.


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[coffeeanyone]

That's the first time I've heard someone say they use pk in veg? Can you explain a little more including how you dose and for how long please?

 

[coffeeanyone]

Also have I read correctly that one of you use grow nutes in bloom too? Why would you need to do that? Don't the bloom nutes take care of everything the plants need base nutes wise in bloom?

 

[superbak3d]

Also have I read correctly that one of you use grow nutes in bloom too? Why would you need to do that? Don't the bloom nutes take care of everything the plants need base nutes wise in bloom?

Even in flower, cannabis still needs trace amounts of Nitrogen for growth. Most bloom nutes still contain small amount of N to maintain health and vigor

Without N, even in flower, your plant will just yellow up and growth will be slowed way down from deficiency.

You still want to maintain a nice healthy green foliage all the way through flowering. More foliage = more light absorption, less wasted light, = bigger buds!

 

[kmog33]

That's the first time I've heard someone say they use pk in veg? Can you explain a little more including how you dose and for how long please?

This was info from Honda.

Also have I read correctly that one of you use grow nutes in bloom too? Why would you need to do that? Don't the bloom nutes take care of everything the plants need base nutes wise in bloom?

I was the one who talked about using veg Nutes during flower. Most of the growers I know use veg Nutes for at least the first couple weeks of flower. You really need to pay attention to what the plants want rather than follow bottle directions. There are times when I've given only veg Nutes in flower.

Do you think the plant only uses n in veg? And only pk during flower? Lol, if you follow gen hydros or ans instructions you'll find that in deep flower the listed ratio generally end up being 1-1-1.


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[superbak3d]

Personally for veg, I've found 2-1-1 or just straight 1-1-1 ratios work well.

For flower in still using maybe 5% Nitrogen throughout

 

[hondagrower420]

That's the first time I've heard someone say they use pk in veg? Can you explain a little more including how you dose and for how long please?

Yes, some plants respond well to a little higher to p&k in veg.

I find feeding a 1:2:2 ratio in veg helps establish a nice root system.

P&k most definitely helps establish roots. I think most bottles that are high in p&k say they promote root growth on the bottle.

 

[Dr. Who]

I got beastie bloomz high n p and k so instead of using weeks 3 n 4 should I use at 5 and 6 or follow the instructions on the label

THAT stuff is NASTY strong - use ONCE in early week 6! See what it does by doing 1 plant and not another. THEN you have a clear starting point if you decide to "play" with that crap any more.......One mistake and it's yellow out city with things that high...When I used synthetics. The one P&K "slapper" I liked was ATAMI's (B'cuzz) blossom Builder 0-9-19....I would hit the plants once or sometimes twice (strain dependent) late week 5 and again at late week 6......I like higher K over higher P. This works nicely and enhances coloring too!

That's the first time I've heard someone say they use pk in veg? Can you explain a little more including how you dose and for how long please?

Yes, some plants respond well to a little higher to p&k in veg.

I find feeding a 1:2:2 ratio in veg helps establish a nice root system.

P&k most definitely helps establish roots. I think most bottles that are high in p&k say they promote root growth on the bottle.

First time I heard that too.....that go's back decades!

Hmm, not something I would do for any reason.....N is FAR more important in veg then higher PK ratio's.....
You want to increase root growth - in any hydro OR soil? The BEST thing is a GOOD kelp extract!!!
Age old has been my go to for YEARS! Maxicrop Seaweed is nice, has an extra bit of K (nice) and less N&P then Age Old but, there is very little there any way. Kelp has been PROVEN to increase root growth by as much as 175% by a (now forgotten the name) College paper. The info is still available on the web but, you have to word it correctly for Google to look up college (.edu) papers......In soil you use kelp meal and some feeding of Kelp extract to achieve massive root growth.......

The use of Kelp will way pass any use of extra P&K levels in veg for the result your looking for. Any company saying that their doing elevated P&K in veg for rooting is more on the fringe of reality in my book.

I'll BET that if you ran 2:1:1 or better yet 3:1:2 and used Kelp you would, in the long run...have better results all the way through veg.. I would continue the 3:1:2 to week 2-3 of bloom. Up the P at that point a bit and then at 5 lower the N and up the P&K again and run it out....

Keeping P low in veg has always worked out for the best for me.....I might bump the K by 3 points or more for a "colored" strain as K helps express coloring! But I have never achieved wanted results by any increase of P in veg.....

my 2 cents on that!
But by all means - if you try kelp and it doesn't do what YOU want - do what works for YOU!
But for the most part...a 1:2:2 ratio is bad for vegging plants and suggesting that for novice growers is a ticket to problems as they have not got "your" methods and products to get the "results|" you do Honda...Any even minor deviation from what you use and what any content is - even your "city" water. Could make a drastic change in results for them! Everything is in relation to the other things....A long hard road of adjusting what they "got" to copy the results YOU get!

New and Novice/intermediate growers.....Try the Kelp first!

 

[kmog33]

THAT stuff is NASTY strong - use ONCE in early week 6! See what it does by doing 1 plant and not another. THEN you have a clear starting point if you decide to "play" with that crap any more.......One mistake and it's yellow out city with things that high...When I used synthetics. The one P&K "slapper" I liked was ATAMI's (B'cuzz) blossom Builder 0-9-19....I would hit the plants once or sometimes twice (strain dependent) late week 5 and again at late week 6......I like higher K over higher P. This works nicely and enhances coloring too!




First time I heard that too.....that go's back decades!

Hmm, not something I would do for any reason.....N is FAR more important in veg then higher PK ratio's.....
You want to increase root growth - in any hydro OR soil? The BEST thing is a GOOD kelp extract!!!
Age old has been my go to for YEARS! Maxicrop Seaweed is nice, has an extra bit of K (nice) and less N&P then Age Old but, there is very little there any way. Kelp has been PROVEN to increase root growth by as much as 175% by a (now forgotten the name) College paper. The info is still available on the web but, you have to word it correctly for Google to look up college (.edu) papers......In soil you use kelp meal and some feeding of Kelp extract to achieve massive root growth.......

The use of Kelp will way pass any use of extra P&K levels in veg for the result your looking for. Any company saying that their doing elevated P&K in veg for rooting is more on the fringe of reality in my book.

I'll BET that if you ran 2:1:1 or better yet 3:1:2 and used Kelp you would, in the long run...have better results all the way through veg.. I would continue the 3:1:2 to week 2-3 of bloom. Up the P at that point a bit and then at 5 lower the N and up the P&K again and run it out....

Keeping P low in veg has always worked out for the best for me.....I might bump the K by 3 points or more for a "colored" strain as K helps express coloring! But I have never achieved wanted results by any increase of P in veg.....

my 2 cents on that!
But by all means - if you try kelp and it doesn't do what YOU want - do what works for YOU!
But for the most part...a 1:2:2 ratio is bad for vegging plants and suggesting that for novice growers is a ticket to problems as they have not got "your" methods and products to get the "results|" you do Honda...Any even minor deviation from what you use and what any content is - even your "city" water. Could make a drastic change in results for them! Everything is in relation to the other things....A long hard road of adjusting what they "got" to copy the results YOU get!

New and Novice/intermediate growers.....Try the Kelp first!

From the sounds of it your enhanced color could be the added k or the lack of p IMO, but again different setup and I don't know yours so I can't speak on it accurately. P def can be pretty, but I try to avoid it. Kelp is a good suggestion. B12 works as well for root growth purposes. I think in veg most strains don't care all that much whether your ratio is 1-1-1 1-1-2 1-2-1 2-1-1 etc, as long as you're mostly balanced and your other parameters are good your plant will take what it needs. Ime plants aren't super picky in veg, but you will notice early in flower if you kept them happy or not in veg lol.


Ps I have seen your grows and I know you grow good shit so none of my post was pointed at your growing style.

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[superbak3d]

Beasty bloom is no joke. It works very well, but it's a once per grow thing.

One time in week 6, skip your next feed. Just plain water. There's no need to keep feeding PK after a dose of beasty, just ride it out.

 

[Dr. Who]

From the sounds of it your enhanced color could be the added k or the lack of p IMO, but again different setup and I don't know yours so I can't speak on it accurately. P def can be pretty, but I try to avoid it. Kelp is a good suggestion. B12 works as well for root growth purposes. I think in veg most strains don't care all that much whether your ratio is 1-1-1 1-1-2 1-2-1 2-1-1 etc, as long as you're mostly balanced and your other parameters are good your plant will take what it needs. Ime plants aren't super picky in veg, but you will notice early in flower if you kept them happy or not in veg lol.


Ps I have seen your grows and I know you grow good shit so none of my post was pointed at your growing style.

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Trust me K, no lack of P in my grows - Organic 2 step soils that I build.......Higher K levels do more then coloring enhancement. The thing is you must take care as you increase.....Too much is bad and it has a small line between ok and too much......

Kelp contains high levels of B vits! It also contains organic plant hormones that do good things for plants that are supplemented with it! By using Kelp you gain not just those (mostly rather expensive) B-vits but those hormones and Fulvic's they contain.....

The use of Silica is good too as Silica helps regulate P uptake, among the other more well known properties!