And the noose continues to tighten..

[fdd2blk]

The Biggest Scams of Our Time
What makes a really good scam? One that the general public wilfully accepts. One that very few realize or know the truth about. One that is not only accepted but promoted by governments and the media as being good and necessary. Something that becomes part of your every day life and never even makes you think twice. Something that gets indoctrinated into kids by the schools, religious institutions, and families of this nation.



“Recycling may be the most wasteful activity in modern America. A waste of time and money, a waste of human and natural resources” – The New York Times


http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/conservation/issues/recycling-reality.htm

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=51301

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/recycling-is-bullshit-make-nov-15-zero-waste-day-not-america-recycles-day.html

https://liveandlearnkid.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/the-biggest-scams-of-our-time/

http://absoluterights.com/trash-talking-the-recycling-hoax-explained/




I can get 100 more links if you want. You're all ignorant if you believe this is all just a "conspiracy theory".

 

[Fogdog]

The Biggest Scams of Our Time
What makes a really good scam? One that the general public wilfully accepts. One that very few realize or know the truth about. One that is not only accepted but promoted by governments and the media as being good and necessary. Something that becomes part of your every day life and never even makes you think twice. Something that gets indoctrinated into kids by the schools, religious institutions, and families of this nation.



“Recycling may be the most wasteful activity in modern America. A waste of time and money, a waste of human and natural resources” – The New York Times


http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/conservation/issues/recycling-reality.htm

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=51301

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/recycling-is-bullshit-make-nov-15-zero-waste-day-not-america-recycles-day.html

https://liveandlearnkid.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/the-biggest-scams-of-our-time/

http://absoluterights.com/trash-talking-the-recycling-hoax-explained/




I can get 100 more links if you want. You're all ignorant if you believe this is all just a "conspiracy theory".

From what I read on this subject, recycling metals and cardboard are cost effective and environmentally preferable to burying them. But paper, plastic and glass are not cost effective and the energy used to make them into new containers or other forms for re-use creates more greenhouse gasses than it saves. So, Ok, you have a point.

What I don't understand is what do you propose? That plastic and glass goes into land fill, I suppose. Surely you aren't suggesting that we all just drive down the highway and toss them out the window.

Metals and cardboard are still worthwhile to recycle.

By the way, I grow my own grapes to make my own wine and a new wine bottle is more expensive than the cost of everything else. I get bottles from friends and re-use them but it takes time and a lot of hot water to clean them.

So, OK, recycling is perhaps not worth it right now based upon a simple economic study. Maybe the economics would change if our cost for fossil fuels and were tagged with the cost of disposal of its waste products. Maybe then, re-using glass containers would be more sensible. I don't know where you are going with this.

 

[fdd2blk]

From what I read on this subject, recycling metals and cardboard are cost effective and environmentally preferable to burying them. But plastic and glass are not cost effective and the energy used to make them into new containers or other forms for re-use creates more greenhouse gasses than it saves. So, Ok, you have a point.

What I don't understand is what do you propose? That plastic and glass goes into land fill, is suppose. Surely you aren't suggesting that we all just drive down the highway and toss them out the window.

Metals and cardboard are still worthwhile to recycle.

By the way, I grow my own grapes to make my own wine and a new wine bottle is more expensive than the cost of everything else. I get bottles from friends and re-use them but it takes time and a lot of hot water to clean them.

So, OK, recycling is perhaps not worth it right now based upon a simple economic study. Maybe the economics would change if our cost for fossil fuels and were tagged with the cost of disposal of its waste products. Maybe then, re-using glass containers would be more sensible. I don't know where you are going with this.

We can start by doing away with nonsense like this ...







I feel product packaging is one of this biggest producers of waste today.

 

[Fogdog]

We can start by doing away with nonsense like this ...

View attachment 3688580

View attachment 3688582



I feel product packaging is one of this biggest producers of waste today.

Ha, fruit taken from its natural package and put into a man made package. Yep, pretty ridiculous. And its all part of the OP's general theme, so not off topic either. I don't know why anybody buys canned or packaged foods like that either.

What about meat packaging? Lots of styrofoam and plastic used there too. Even so, I have to put the package into another plastic bag just to keep the yuck away from the other stuff I'm buying. Meat used to be purchased directly from a butcher and was sold wrapped in butcher paper. . It was probably fresher too.

Its all a mystery to me why people buy processed foods. The freezer section is enormous in the local supermarket with practically a whole aisle devoted to potatoes in one form or another. Loaded with salt and fat, people must by buying the shit of it. I fail to see why but there you have it. Some people act like: "You'll pry my tater tots away from my cold dead fingers"

I look forward to seeing what our wing nuts would say about legislation that would roll back the frivolous use of packaging. Then again, the same businesses that promote AGW would go to war to stop such a thing. Is that what you are proposing?

 

[fdd2blk]

Ha, fruit taken from its natural package and put into a man made package. Yep, pretty ridiculous. And its all part of the OP's general theme, so not off topic either. I don't know why anybody buys canned or packaged foods like that either.

What about meat packaging? Lots of styrofoam and plastic used there too. Even so, I have to put the package into another plastic bag just to keep the yuck away from the other stuff I'm buying. Meat used to be purchased directly from a butcher and was sold wrapped in butcher paper. . It was probably fresher too.

Its all a mystery to me why people buy processed foods. The freezer section is enormous in the local supermarket with practically a whole aisle devoted to potatoes in one form or another. Loaded with salt and fat, people must by buying the shit of it. I fail to see why but there you have it. Some people act like: "You'll pry my tater tots away from my cold dead fingers"

I look forward to seeing what our wing nuts would say about legislation that would roll back the frivolous use of packaging. Then again, the same businesses that promote AGW would go to war to stop such a thing. Is that what you are proposing?

I'm not sure what to do. I often think we are on a huge downward spiral. Our infrastructure is deteriorating from the inside out. Most of this countries big cities were built long ago. The plumbing and sewer systems alone are wreaking havoc on the daily. Our roads are falling apart. And on and and on.

It all costs money to fix though. Those who hold the money aren't interested in anything unless it helps them increase their riches. We have to face reality and admit to ourselves that everything revolves around money. How do you change that though?

Sometimes I think that you just have to let it all burn to the ground simply so you can rebuild it. Bigger and better.

My neighbor bought this house across the street. It was dilapidated and ugly. When he bought it he spent a few months tearing out all the walls, ripping out all the plumbing and electrical, started doing work on the siding. Then one night it burnt to the ground. "Electrical fire" from something the construction crew was using. So they said. He took the money from the insurance, leveled the whole lot and rebuilt. It's now one of the nicest houses on the block.

This is why you will see me saying that this whole farce about "climate change" and trying to say the planet is futile. I think we're at the point where all we can do now is ride it out.

 

[Fogdog]

I'm not sure what to do. I often think we are on a huge downward spiral. Our infrastructure is deteriorating from the inside out. Most of this countries big cities were built long ago. The plumbing and sewer systems alone are wreaking havoc on the daily. Our roads are falling apart. And on and and on.

It all costs money to fix though. Those who hold the money aren't interested in anything unless it helps them increase their riches. We have to face reality and admit to ourselves that everything revolves around money. How do you change that though?

Sometimes I think that you just have to let it all burn to the ground simply so you can rebuild it. Bigger and better.

My neighbor bought this house across the street. It was dilapidated and ugly. When he bought it he spent a few months tearing out all the walls, ripping out all the plumbing and electrical, started doing work on the siding. Then one night it burnt to the ground. "Electrical fire" from something the construction crew was using. So they said. He took the money from the insurance, leveled the whole lot and rebuilt. It's now one of the nicest houses on the block.

This is why you will see me saying that this whole farce about "climate change" and trying to say the planet is futile. I think we're at the point where all we can do now is ride it out.

We can't protect what we've already lost. This is true. Things can get a lot worse, however. What you propose, letting it all burn means the death and misery of hundreds of millions and possibly nuclear war. So, it's just not an option for me. And I don't think the wealthy oligarchy 1% have things completely locked up. So, this dog aint through yet. There is a lot of barking and some biting to be done before I'll give up.

 

[Fogdog]

It all costs money to fix though. Those who hold the money aren't interested in anything unless it helps them increase their riches. We have to face reality and admit to ourselves that everything revolves around money. How do you change that though?

It's never actually changed, the rich have pulled the strings down through time. In the 1900's, the populist movement did a lot to reverse the powers of the "Robber Barons". It took a grass roots effort and unity of the working classes to achieve it. The Great Depression put this country on the edge of revolution and brought enough people together so that Roosevelt had the power to make some real changes.

We are in a bitter discussion between Trump supporters and Bernie supporters but really, the root problem is that the 1% have concentrated too much wealth into too few hands, just like you said. The solution is taxation to move wealth from the 1%, who really are just speculating with that money and not putting it to work and moving it into public hands where it will be used to improve that tottering infrastructure, improve education and develop the kinds of tech that will free us from the need to use fossil fuels. Bernie didn't win and I think he was on this path, so bad on us for letting this opportunity slip by. But he did us a good turn by validating the argument. We just need a little more time to build a coalition strong enough to break through the barriers put up by the oligarchy.

 

[evergreengardener]

i personally am not voting in this shit show election but i will say this (i in no way support or endorse trump) IMO trump is just proving that america can be bought he knows nothing of politics but will still most likely be our next president

 

[fdd2blk]

Where would we be if ALL the worlds knowledge was freely shared? No secrets. Just dump it all on the table. Take money out of the equation. Work for humanity instead of individual wealth. Maybe this is why the aliens don't like us.

 

[evergreengardener]

Where would we be if ALL the worlds knowledge was freely shared? No secrets. Just dump it all on the table. Take money out of the equation. Work for humanity instead of individual wealth. Maybe this is why the aliens don't like us.

wed be at war with all the espionage and treason that it would take to make all that knowledge free lol

 

[fdd2blk]

wed be at war with all the espionage and treason that it would take to make all that knowledge free lol

It's crazy that the biggest thing holding back the advancement of our species is greed.

 

[NLXSK1]

It's crazy that the biggest thing holding back the advancement of our species is greed.

You didnt add power and control...

 

[Heisenberg]

"They found a way to let an unbiased group of expert scientists judge for themselves how sound climate-doubting arguments are by presenting them with real climate data — but labeling these data as something else. For instance, they presented data on trends in Arctic sea ice extent, but relabeled as data on the profits of a fictitious company. And they re-cast numbers on global sea-level rise as stats on world lithium production."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/05/18/climate-change-doubters-really-really-arent-going-to-like-this-study/

 

[ttystikk]

"They found a way to let an unbiased group of expert scientists judge for themselves how sound climate-doubting arguments are by presenting them with real climate data — but labeling these data as something else. For instance, they presented data on trends in Arctic sea ice extent, but relabeled as data on the profits of a fictitious company. And they re-cast numbers on global sea-level rise as stats on world lithium production."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/05/18/climate-change-doubters-really-really-arent-going-to-like-this-study/

LOL Lie to the liars and then watch them tell the truth!

 

[Rob Roy]

We can start by doing away with nonsense like this ...

View attachment 3688580

View attachment 3688582



I feel product packaging is one of this biggest producers of waste today.

When you say "doing away with", people of your ilk often mean government should intervene forcibly and make some kind of law.

A much simpler and peaceful mode (free market) would be for you to simply not package the orange or avocado and sell them that way. Consumers could then chose between the two vendors to decide which creates the most value for them.

 

[Rob Roy]

It's crazy that the biggest thing holding back the advancement of our species is greed.

Certainly greed may be the motivation.

The vehicle which creates opportunity to realize the greed is often the existence of involuntary government and the maligning / misunderstanding of what a real free market is.

Humans are capable of mass misunderstanding and being deceived (often by themselves) as a coping mechanism for their present indenture and servitude and to rationalize what is "normal" as also being good.

 

[fdd2blk]

When you say "doing away with", people of your ilk often mean government should intervene forcibly and make some kind of law.

A much simpler and peaceful mode (free market) would be for you to simply not package the orange or avocado and sell them that way. Consumers could then chose between the two vendors to decide which creates the most value for them.

And there's that greed.

 

[Rob Roy]

And there's that greed.

Not quite sir, or at least in how I intended the meanings.

I would differentiate between, "rational self interest" and "greed".

I think the difference in terms is how they are realized. Greed is often realized via fraud, or using a means which is inconsistent with choice, force etc.

Rational self interest, in the way I used it, can be expressed in a way which doesn't negate choice of the involved persons or employ fraud or force as a means.

Take care of the means and the ends will take care of themselves.

 

[fdd2blk]

Basing something on "what creates the most value" is greed.

What if you could do something for someone else and you actually lost value doing it? Say you baked a cake, using your own goods, and simply gave it away.

"How can I get the most out of this" is often selfish thinking. Even if it is done in the most honest way.

They throw away tons of fruit and vegetables every year because there is either an over abundance of it, or it doesn't meet quality standards. It is edible and safe to eat. Why not give it away? I'll tell you why. If they gave it away it would cut into the profit margin. People would simply take the free stuff instead of paying for it. This is not corrupt or dishonest but it is greedy.

 

[NLXSK1]

Basing something on "what creates the most value" is greed.

What if you could do something for someone else and you actually lost value doing it? Say you baked a cake, using your own goods, and simply gave it away.

"How can I get the most out of this" is often selfish thinking. Even if it is done in the most honest way.

They throw away tons of fruit and vegetables every year because there is either an over abundance of it, or it doesn't meet quality standards. It is edible and safe to eat. Why not give it away? I'll tell you why. If they gave it away it would cut into the profit margin. People would simply take the free stuff instead of paying for it. This is not corrupt or dishonest but it is greedy.

Where is the differentiating line between self interest and greed?