First kid on the block...

Corso312

Well-Known Member
Go back to posts from 2011 and you will find many of the same discussions going. You might even find someone swinging guarantees. ;) So who knows. It has its advantages but I have all my seasons under control and my power usage is fine and about to get better.

Oh and my stuff is wonderfull.






I wasn't a believer back then on the blurple either..the game has changed though.
 

The Green Griffin

Well-Known Member
Your premise is absurd, plenty of money for power and space but highly constrained money for lights? No long term business plan with amortization over the life of the equipment? Ignoring tax credits for energy efficiency? No concern about total cost/gram? Obvious you have 0 biz experience, no interest in a discussion and to top it off are extremely rude to people. (Note I never called you any name, but you have no issue demeaning others). Quit skipping high school to get stoned and get an education. Or go crawl back under your bridge. Blocked, do not care a whit about what else you have to say.
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Your premise is absurd, plenty of money for power and space but highly constrained money for lights? No long term business plan with amortization over the life of the equipment? Ignoring tax credits for energy efficiency? No concern about total cost/gram? Obvious you have 0 biz experience, no interest in a discussion and to top it off are extremely rude to people. (Note I never called you any name, but you have no issue demeaning others). Quit skipping high school to get stoned and get an education. Or go crawl back under your bridge. Blocked, do not care a whit about what else you have to say.
Lol. Another drive-by.
Sorry, your input is ignored. You were called out and failed to produce evidence of anything you previously based your insults on and now you double down with more. Yes, blocking me is your only good idea. Run along now.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
space is not an issue
Space is always a factor. Also when you do have unlimited. With a limited budget and unlimited space the choice is really easy: get the most amount of light you can get for that $10k so you can use as much as possible of that unlimited space you got. Electricity is cheaper than the bud it creates. With unlimited space but a fixed budget for light, the cheapest light wins.

In reality you don't have unlimited space and have a given limited space for which you choose lighting.

Also, for such a grow op it would be an easy choice between cheap hps diy and 1k DE fixtures and bulbs. So it would be more realistic to compare with modern hps and not like the led fanboys here have done for years with a cheapo crappy philips knockoffs.


The white cobs are particularly useful for running soft and essentially allow paying for a higher gpw. The more you invest in cobs for a given space the lower the wattage needed for a desired amount of light, and the higher the gpw. No idea why that needs so many threads... the rest is fluff. People even want sub forums in the sub forum now, because grow journals with leds are special... If led is so great, why the fanboyness.

Are they worth it? Depends on what worth it means. They are above all worth it if you want to increase gpw by lowering the w. Which doesn't have to be all about money. Just as space is a limit, for many that goes for electricity use too. Some people can pay a lot to cut electricity use in half, others end up using the same wattage but add an extra tent or closet and still remain under the radar.

Energy use reduction is a given, inherent to running leds soft. Rather than discussing it over and over it would be a lot more fruitful to have a thread with calculations and examples. Heck, one simple rough formula is all it takes. The kW rate and lum/watt efficiency would be the main variables. Add a factor to guestimate reflector losses on the hps side.

With a 1400ma, 36v, cxb3590, 56% efficient it roughly comes down to paying nearly double for the setup (compared to DE) and saving 33% in electricity. Obviously doesn't include temps and spectrum and is rough bibled ledlogic. I don't know what you guys pay for electricity but I would earn that back in two years and don't sell a gram of bud. It would however take a lot longer to save enough in electricity for me to start caring. Imo, the larger the grow op, the more sense it starts to make to become concerned with max efficiency / energy savings. Only then do the savings/efficiency percentages actually reflect values that become interesting in terms of money.

The setup costs should be reasonable and if there's anything you can learn from this forum is that reasonable is highly subjective.

On a side note, if you're doing 3 runs per year in a large op, instead of 5-6, then light should not be your main concern.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Always funny to see the led fan boys try to troll to get a thread locked when it doesn't suit them...

One grower says it will take x years to earn it back, others say they earn it back in one harvest. Obviously that last thing requires a simple mind but the fact remains it would be a fallacy to not choose led or not choose a low current (drive soft) because it would not earn back fast enough in savings. Saving money and electricity savings are two different motivations not to be lumped together by default.

If for the hypothetical location it is a goal to switch to led at some point the whole buy hps first and make some money with it makes zero sense to me. That fits the mentality of trying to grow themselves out of the ghetto. If the idea is saving is an advantage, why start with hps lol... so you can make some money in the current industry and can actually afford a choice between hps and led... That's just silly. Having to gather the money with hps grows for the led investement while the budget is $10k...

Which idiots on the led side agreed with having to buy and grow with hps before led starts making sense :lol: Essentially saying it's only wise to invest in led if you make some easy money first in the by prohibition profitable cannabis industry, for which hps is then better, logically answering the OP's question with a big fat NO. Or yes, if you buy them with hps profits of a hps setup you just bought. So... buy a new hps first to make money to buy led, but once you already own the hps it's better to switch to led... What a glorified dopedealer nonsense.
Space is always a factor. Also when you do have unlimited. With a limited budget and unlimited space the choice is really easy: get the most amount of light you can get for that $10k so you can use as much as possible of that unlimited space you got. Electricity is cheaper than the bud it creates. With unlimited space but a fixed budget for light, the cheapest light wins.

In reality you don't have unlimited space and have a given limited space for which you choose lighting.

Also, for such a grow op it would be an easy choice between cheap hps diy and 1k DE fixtures and bulbs. So it would be more realistic to compare with modern hps and not like the led fanboys here have done for years with a cheapo crappy philips knockoffs.


The white cobs are particularly useful for running soft and essentially allow paying for a higher gpw. The more you invest in cobs for a given space the lower the wattage needed for a desired amount of light, and the higher the gpw. No idea why that needs so many threads... the rest is fluff. People even want sub forums in the sub forum now, because grow journals with leds are special... If led is so great, why the fanboyness.

Are they worth it? Depends on what worth it means. They are above all worth it if you want to increase gpw by lowering the w. Which doesn't have to be all about money. Just as space is a limit, for many that goes for electricity use too. Some people can pay a lot to cut electricity use in half, others end up using the same wattage but add an extra tent or closet and still remain under the radar.

Energy use reduction is a given, inherent to running leds soft. Rather than discussing it over and over it would be a lot more fruitful to have a thread with calculations and examples. Heck, one simple rough formula is all it takes. The kW rate and lum/watt efficiency would be the main variables. Add a factor to guestimate reflector losses on the hps side.

With a 1400ma, 36v, cxb3590, 56% efficient it roughly comes down to paying nearly double for the setup (compared to DE) and saving 33% in electricity. Obviously doesn't include temps and spectrum and is rough bibled ledlogic. I don't know what you guys pay for electricity but I would earn that back in two years and don't sell a gram of bud. It would however take a lot longer to save enough in electricity for me to start caring. Imo, the larger the grow op, the more sense it starts to make to become concerned with max efficiency / energy savings. Only then do the savings/efficiency percentages actually reflect values that become interesting in terms of money.

The setup costs should be reasonable and if there's anything you can learn from this forum is that reasonable is highly subjective.

On a side note, if you're doing 3 runs per year in a large op, instead of 5-6, then light should not be your main concern.
Do you ever stop talking? You're just this one guy who has a decent grow with a 600W HPS lamp. That's nice and all, but you've gotta realize that nobody gives a shit about what you have to say. Considering you have no experience with what you're talking about, you should probably type a lot less and read a lot more.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "Lum/W" efficiency. The proper term is "luminous efficacy of source". You keep trying to act clever with the word efficiency and use it however you see fit, but luminous efficiency actually means something completely different than luminous efficacy.

"A common choice is to choose units such that the maximum possible efficacy, 683 lm/W, corresponds to an (luminous) efficiency of 100%"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Efficacy_and_efficiency

Luminous efficiency doesn't have units. If something has units, it's not efficiency.
 
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bravedave

Well-Known Member
Space is always a factor. Also when you do have unlimited. With a limited budget and unlimited space the choice is really easy: get the most amount of light you can get for that $10k so you can use as much as possible of that unlimited space you got. Electricity is cheaper than the bud it creates. With unlimited space but a fixed budget for light, the cheapest light wins.

In reality you don't have unlimited space and have a given limited space for which you choose lighting.

Also, for such a grow op it would be an easy choice between cheap hps diy and 1k DE fixtures and bulbs. So it would be more realistic to compare with modern hps and not like the led fanboys here have done for years with a cheapo crappy philips knockoffs.


The white cobs are particularly useful for running soft and essentially allow paying for a higher gpw. The more you invest in cobs for a given space the lower the wattage needed for a desired amount of light, and the higher the gpw. No idea why that needs so many threads... the rest is fluff. People even want sub forums in the sub forum now, because grow journals with leds are special... If led is so great, why the fanboyness.

Are they worth it? Depends on what worth it means. They are above all worth it if you want to increase gpw by lowering the w. Which doesn't have to be all about money. Just as space is a limit, for many that goes for electricity use too. Some people can pay a lot to cut electricity use in half, others end up using the same wattage but add an extra tent or closet and still remain under the radar.

Energy use reduction is a given, inherent to running leds soft. Rather than discussing it over and over it would be a lot more fruitful to have a thread with calculations and examples. Heck, one simple rough formula is all it takes. The kW rate and lum/watt efficiency would be the main variables. Add a factor to guestimate reflector losses on the hps side.

With a 1400ma, 36v, cxb3590, 56% efficient it roughly comes down to paying nearly double for the setup (compared to DE) and saving 33% in electricity. Obviously doesn't include temps and spectrum and is rough bibled ledlogic. I don't know what you guys pay for electricity but I would earn that back in two years and don't sell a gram of bud. It would however take a lot longer to save enough in electricity for me to start caring. Imo, the larger the grow op, the more sense it starts to make to become concerned with max efficiency / energy savings. Only then do the savings/efficiency percentages actually reflect values that become interesting in terms of money.

The setup costs should be reasonable and if there's anything you can learn from this forum is that reasonable is highly subjective.

On a side note, if you're doing 3 runs per year in a large op, instead of 5-6, then light should not be your main concern.
Thx. Good stuff. The "space is not a factor" concept only was meant here in that the mythical warehouse would hold 30 or greater lights thus not restricting either grow. Yes more space will most likely add to cost.
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Do you ever stop talking? You're just this one guy who has a decent grow with a 600W HPS lamp. That's nice and all, but you've gotta realize that nobody gives a shit about what you have to say. Considering you have no experience with what you're talking about, you should probably type a lot less and read a lot more.
Oh come now...without looking I would guarantee he has more followers. I do give a shit what he has to say, just as I usually do you.
 

nogod_

Well-Known Member


Who or how many attach value to my words is no concern to me, that's up to the reader, or ignorer lol. The reason it is such a concern to the led forum-idiot has to do with his crack abuse history and investing not just money in a led setup but also getting emotionally invested. It's all butthurt ramblings and frankly quite enjoyable because it serves him so well.
 
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