The Tamir Rice Story: How to Make a Police Shooting Disappear

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Maybe you heard about the Tamir Rice case and wondered: How does a 12-year-old boy with a toy gun on a playground get shot to death on-camera by the police without anyone getting charged? Put another way: How does a small group of government officials make this case disappear without a trial? Here’s how.

The prosecutor pacing in front of the witness was holding a toy gun that looked like a real gun, which was the same kind of toy the boy had been playing with the day he got shot. A rookie Cleveland police officer had fired twice at close range, and one bullet hit the boy just left of his belly button, carved downward through his intestines and a major vein, and embedded in his pelvis an inch to the right of center.

The witness, a retired cop named Roger Clark, thought the gun was a curious prop for a grand jury. The boy was dead, and had been for more than a year. He’d been accused of no crime, ever. Why the toy? There is no need for theatrics in grand-jury proceedings. They are entirely one-sided forums. Prosecutors decide what witnesses to call and what evidence to present. They instruct the grand jurors, ordinary citizens drawn from the same pool as trial jurors, on the law. There is no defense present because the most a grand jury can do is issue an indictment, which means only that there’s enough evidence of a crime that a judge or jury should sort it out. It is a very low threshold, and it is reached as a matter of plodding routine. It also is done entirely in secret. Who was a prop supposed to impress?

The prop was for them. But it was only theater. Because the boy never pointed a gun at a cop. He wasn’t given the chance to even put his hands up.


The prosecutors reminded Clark, and the grand jurors, that the officers had responded to a 911 call about a black male with a gun in a park—an “active shooter,” they said, though no shots had been fired, there was no one nearby to be shot when police arrived, and the black male turned out to be a 12-year-old boy alone in a gazebo. Active shooter. The phrase was used repeatedly, Clark told me. “They had to be brave,” the pacing prosecutor, Matthew Meyer, said. “They were brave that day.” Or maybe they were reckless, which was one of Clark’s conclusions. Maybe if they hadn’t ridden up in a frenzy, the boy wouldn’t be dead. There’s case law about that, Clark started to explain, opinions that can help define whether force was used appropriately.



http://www.gq.com/story/tamir-rice-story
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
"Mr. McGinty said the fatal encounter had been a tragedy and a “perfect storm of human error, mistakes and miscommunications.” But he said that enhancement of video from the scene had made it “indisputable” that Tamir, who was black, was drawing the pellet gun from his waistband when he was shot, either to hand it over to the officers or to show them that it was not a real firearm. He said that there was no reason for the officers to know that, and that the officer who fired, Timothy Loehmann, had a reason to fear for his life."

The kid was pulling what looked like a gun from his waistband. It is a tragedy.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
"Mr. McGinty said the fatal encounter had been a tragedy and a “perfect storm of human error, mistakes and miscommunications.” But he said that enhancement of video from the scene had made it “indisputable” that Tamir, who was black, was drawing the pellet gun from his waistband when he was shot, either to hand it over to the officers or to show them that it was not a real firearm. He said that there was no reason for the officers to know that, and that the officer who fired, Timothy Loehmann, had a reason to fear for his life."

The kid was pulling what looked like a gun from his waistband. It is a tragedy.
Yeah, except the expert witness that they called seemed to disagree:

Clark had studied all of the available evidence in this case—video, witness statements, forensic reconstructions—and he had prepared a report detailing his findings. He did not believe the officers acted reasonably, and he did not believe the shooting was justified. When he was called to testify, on December 7, he expected he would summarize those opinions, answer a few clarifying questions, then be dismissed with a polite thank-you for his time and effort.

“Instead,” he told me, “it was immediately very hostile.”
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
"Mr. McGinty said the fatal encounter had been a tragedy and a “perfect storm of human error, mistakes and miscommunications.” But he said that enhancement of video from the scene had made it “indisputable” that Tamir, who was black, was drawing the pellet gun from his waistband when he was shot, either to hand it over to the officers or to show them that it was not a real firearm. He said that there was no reason for the officers to know that, and that the officer who fired, Timothy Loehmann, had a reason to fear for his life."

The kid was pulling what looked like a gun from his waistband. It is a tragedy.


Ironic. It turned out it was the kid who had every reason to fear for his life, cuz he got murdered.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
This is how justice gets undone.

The idea that cops should be prosecuted by the DA's office they work for is such an amazingly glaring obvious conflict of interest that there's no way it wasn't planned.

We the People must go on a campaign of accountability; Ebenezer at egret level of government must be accountable for their actions.

I bet if there was a policy that anyone involved in an on duty killing gets fired, a lot fewer innocent people would die at the hands of police officers.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
This is how justice gets undone.

The idea that cops should be prosecuted by the DA's office they work for is such an amazingly glaring obvious conflict of interest that there's no way it wasn't planned.

We the People must go on a campaign of accountability; Ebenezer at egret level of government must be accountable for their actions.

I bet if there was a policy that anyone involved in an on duty killing gets fired, a lot fewer innocent people would die at the hands of police officers.


You bring up a good point. Police should not be immune from personal responsibility, nobody should. The free market provides an answer.

In a free market police wouldn't and couldn't hold their customers in a forced monopoly.

Since in a free market other security companies would be "allowed" to compete, their customer service methods would have to be pristine or they wouldn't be able to stay in business.

Given the choice, who would you fund, people with an excellent reputation or people who aren't personally liable when they commit legal crimes?
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
You bring up a good point. Police should not be immune from personal responsibility, nobody should. The free market provides an answer.

In a free market police wouldn't and couldn't hold their customers in a forced monopoly.

Since in a free market other security companies would be "allowed" to compete, their customer service methods would have to be pristine or they wouldn't be able to stay in business.

Given the choice, who would you fund, people with an excellent reputation or people who aren't personally liable when they commit legal crimes?
But in a "free market", wouldn't you also be limited to the amount of protection that you could afford? If so, that's no different than the system that's in place right now.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
But in a "free market", wouldn't you also be limited to the amount of protection that you could afford? If so, that's no different than the system that's in place right now.
No. It would be vastly different. The means used would not be a contradiction. In the present, people are forced to pay for Police, who ostensibly then prevent people from forcing them. Which is a self evident contradiction.


Voluntary alliances could be formed. Nothing would prevent charity either.

Also, voluntary processes incentivize life long good behavior. For instance, if you were the kind of person that was helpful and a good neighbor, your neighbors would be more likely to assist you in your old age.
 

testiclees

Well-Known Member
"Mr. McGinty said the fatal encounter had been a tragedy and a “perfect storm of human error, mistakes and miscommunications.” But he said that enhancement of video from the scene had made it “indisputable” that Tamir, who was black, was drawing the pellet gun from his waistband when he was shot, either to hand it over to the officers or to show them that it was not a real firearm. He said that there was no reason for the officers to know that, and that the officer who fired, Timothy Loehmann, had a reason to fear for his life."

The kid was pulling what looked like a gun from his waistband. It is a tragedy.
Todays cops "fear for their lives" as if they are Ashraf Ghani or Barak Obama. In reality they are fucking low level civil servants with authority issues and carte blanche. Add on questionable training and half witted leadership and they are like death squads.
 

testiclees

Well-Known Member
No. It would be vastly different. The means used would not be a contradiction. In the present, people are forced to pay for Police, who ostensibly then prevent people from forcing them. Which is a self evident contradiction.


Voluntary alliances could be formed. Nothing would prevent charity either.

Also, voluntary processes incentivize life long good behavior. For instance, if you were the kind of person that was helpful and a good neighbor, your neighbors would be more likely to assist you in your old age.

Wait, we have a free market where market leaders pretty much enslave a workforce and then deploy structures and conditions to fortify and perpetuate the hegemony. I have no faith that security corps could provide for legitimate enforcement of local law. Is that what youre proposing?(aside from the voluntary force suggestion)
 

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
You bring up a good point. Police should not be immune from personal responsibility, nobody should. The free market provides an answer.

In a free market police wouldn't and couldn't hold their customers in a forced monopoly.

Since in a free market other security companies would be "allowed" to compete, their customer service methods would have to be pristine or they wouldn't be able to stay in business.

Given the choice, who would you fund, people with an excellent reputation or people who aren't personally liable when they commit legal crimes?
Private prisons will still need to be filled in a truly free market as well but who will pay? So thieves lose a finger bad criminals get hung? What do we do with the criminals the child molesters and all?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Wait, we have a free market where market leaders pretty much enslave a workforce and then deploy structures and conditions to fortify and perpetuate the hegemony. I have no faith that security corps could provide for legitimate enforcement of local law. Is that what youre proposing?(aside from the voluntary force suggestion)

No I do not propose a crony market whose guilt is erroneously laid on a free market.

I am proposing that any "local law" be limited to concepts which are valid if you or I applied them or had a right to do. If we have no right to do something to our neighbors as individuals, then we can't delegate something we don't possess to a group of people can we?

So, in other words, malum prohibitum laws would be shit canned. Voluntary human interactions would be the norm and involuntary human interactions would be suspect.



Also, you are incorrect. Free markets for the most part are not allowed to exist.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Todays cops "fear for their lives" as if they are Ashraf Ghani or Barak Obama. In reality they are fucking low level civil servants with authority issues and carte blanche. Add on questionable training and half witted leadership and they are like death squads.
The enhanced video shows that Tamir was pulling the gun from his waistband when he got shot.

It was his actions that got him killed, not the color of his skin.

People keep attacking the wrong problem.

Lets change the laws so cops dont have to kick in doors and shoot people. They are simply the dogs and the government is the master.
 

testiclees

Well-Known Member
There needs to be a transparent system where equality isnt a fucking joke and the general vibe is trust and cooperation rather than a grovelling race to the greedy bottom.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
The enhanced video shows that Tamir was pulling the gun from his waistband when he got shot.

It was his actions that got him killed, not the color of his skin.

People keep attacking the wrong problem.

Lets change the laws so cops dont have to kick in doors and shoot people. They are simply the dogs and the government is the master.
Now should I believe you, or the expert witness they called to testify? Just curious.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Private prisons will still need to be filled in a truly free market as well but who will pay? So thieves lose a finger bad criminals get hung? What do we do with the criminals the child molesters and all?

Right now people are forced to pay for prisons and then ironically peaceful people are then put in them, that's why the USA has the highest prison population in the world.

Also, you are mixing paradigms. In a free market, there would be much less incentive to prosecute victimless crimes.

The first thing you should do, is determine if a person was victimized, so some kind of reasonable arbitration process might be a good idea.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Now should I believe you, or the expert witness they called to testify? Just curious.
You dont need to believe me, I quoted the testimony from the trial in my post. It says what the video shows.

You demand body cameras and when video is present you want to now discount it in favor of something else that supports your view of the situation.

The police are never going to be right in your eyes, no shooting is going to be justified, that is obvious.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
You dont need to believe me, I quoted the testimony from the trial in my post. It says what the video shows.

You demand body cameras and when video is present you want to now discount it in favor of something else that supports your view of the situation.

The police are never going to be right in your eyes, no shooting is going to be justified, that is obvious.
Are we just ignoring the expert witness?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
There needs to be a transparent system where equality isnt a fucking joke and the general vibe is trust and cooperation rather than a grovelling race to the greedy bottom.

Voluntaryists believe all people have the equal right of self determination. We also believe if profit is your motive, and your customers have choices of using you or a competitor, that's your business.

In the present, the option of using other service providers is disallowed by this gang known as "government" . In that regard the government gang holds a forcible monopoly, thus they can NEVER bring or protect equality, since they abuse it from the get go.
 
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