organic autos on gas lantern lighting

[calliandra]

So you need 1600-2000 micromoles per m2

How did you reach this conclusion?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

How did you reach this conclusion?

off the subject but we are totally similar in our reluctance to kill plants...
I don't think I've EVER seen a companion plant like that badass tomato plant..
I admit, even me, woulda given that tomato a good pruning once it was shadowing the whole plant..
kudo's to you
and kudo's to a good thread
haven't read a grow-thread as interesting as this one in a LONG time.
carry on

 

[Resinhound]

That's the problem with several hours of darkness in a cycle, stretching. But what about say 7/1 repeating? How much stretching could 1 hour of dark at a time cause? Here's an experiment to try, one plant on 21/3 and another on 7/1.

I actually like this idea Bob..

 

[Resinhound]

How did you reach this conclusion?

Well i have plenty of empirical evidence this is false, I've grown many ounces with much less than that.

 

[BobCajun]

How did you reach this conclusion?

It was in the abstract you linked. @Resinhound, you don't HAVE to use 2000 umol, you just CAN if you so choose. Apparently more than that would be a waste of light. Not that many people would try to use more than 1000-1200w of HPS per m2 anyway, due to heat. You can DL the full article here for free btw.

Abstract
The effect of different levels of photon flux densities (000, 400, 800, 1200, 1600 and 2000 μmol m−2 s−1) on gas and water vapor characteristics of four high Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9-THC) yielding drug type varieties (HPM, K2, MX and W1) of Cannabis sativa was studied. Plants of each variety were grown from seeds. On flowering, male plants were removed and vegetatively propagated clones of selected female plants were used for gas and water vapor studies at different photosynthetic photon flux densities (PPFDs). Our data show an increasing trend in photosynthesis (PN), transpiration (E) and stomatal conductance (gCO2) with increase in PPFD up to 2000 μmol m−2 s−1 in all varieties at optimum growth temperature (25 ± 3 °C). However, the magnitude of increase and maximum rate of PN (PN max) varied considerably with the varieties. Highest PN was observed in W1 followed by MX, K2 and HPM. Water use efficiency (WUE) in W1, MX and HPM increased with PPFDs up to the highest level tested, whereas, in K2 the highest WUE was observed at 1600 μmol m−2 s−1. Our results suggest that this species is able to use high level of PPFDs for its PN and therefore, may be cultivated in sun exposed areas in the field or under high PPFDs using indoor grow lights for the optimum growth. Strict control of other environmental factors, however, needs to be maintained while growing the plants indoor.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214786115000078

 

[calliandra]

off the subject but we are totally similar in our reluctance to kill plants...
I don't think I've EVER seen a companion plant like that badass tomato plant..
I admit, even me, woulda given that tomato a good pruning once it was shadowing the whole plant..
kudo's to you
and kudo's to a good thread
haven't read a grow-thread as interesting as this one in a LONG time.
carry on

Aw thanks, that means alot to me! - and thanks to everyone who is making this thread as rich as it is with their contributions and questions!

Actually I've been pruning off both tomato and calendula leaves and tucking their branches against the back wall daily - more work than the timid autos haha!

The tomato I pulled in time to plant outdoors has now shown me it's a cocktail tomato from last year - alas, I didn't have space in the tomato house for her, poor thing, and since it's been raining so much and I've been out of compost for now she's gotten all blighty.
So since I really want seeds from this strain I've decided to leave the tomato in the closet until at least a few fruit have ripened - which I hope will now happen under the improved lights - it's also a nice visual test! The most exciting thing going on in the closet at the mo is the calendula growing a new bud - soo looking forward to how it'll look!!.
So she stays in there for yet another while, though you can almost watch the soil level sink in the pot as she gobbles it up - gosh it's amazing! But yes, I've cut back all the growth above lights level plus some more below now that the seedling is somewhat established

 

[calliandra]

Well i have plenty of empirical evidence this is false, I've grown many ounces with much less than that.

Do share please

It was in the abstract you linked. @Resinhound, you don't HAVE to use 2000 umol, you just CAN if you so choose. Apparently more than that would be a waste of light. Not that many people would try to use more than 1000-1200w of HPS per m2 anyway, due to heat. You can DL the full article here for free btw.

Ah but no. What they are doing in that experiment is checking how the plants do under different light intensities (and yes I'd really like to read the whole thing but wasn't finding how -- too bad that link doesn't work for me waaah!).
That's something different than DLI, which would be the total moles per day, which we then are free to provide either with a long low wattage day or a shorter (or multiple) high intensity one.

We kind of already know that cannabis is rather a high- than a low-light plant, so according to the Purdue piece cannabis' DLI will be somewhere from 12 to 18 mol·m-2·d-1 and above. Anyone have an idea which of the plants they list will be the most similar to cannabis in terms of light needs? The we could extrapolate from there (just not to be left completely in the dark on this haha)

 

[BobCajun]

To get the article, you just go to the linked page, check "I'm not a robot" and click the download button.

 

[calliandra]

To get the article, you just go to the linked page, check "I'm not a robot" and click the download button.

Nah, I'm getting a "not found" message from the server
Maybe it'll come back, or I'll find it elsewhere
Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

So I went out this weekend to try and source some (worm)compost - I do know of a place in a town nearby where they have some, but as I was short on time I made do - for starts - with what I found in the stores nearby. "Gardener's Compost", they call it, from Compo.

When I opened the bag, sheer blackness. Uhoh. Bad sign.

Checking it out under the microscope, I found the microbiology to be less diverse than the really bad soil I've been recovering in the garden outside.

A diverse bacterial population, and an occasional shred of a beneficial fungus, that was it. not a single "higher" critter about.

So I brewed up a tea, just in case they were dormant and/or my inexperienced eye just wasn't seeing them.
I checked it after about 26hrs and a dire sight it was. Not a decent flagellate in sight. Not a single testate amoeba, which I can recognize well (I was beginning to doubt myself for not finding anyone in there.. lmao). Forget nematodes.
Instead, I saw growing lactobacillus populations, actinomyces, and a single "fishie" - which I'm pretty sure, tho not certain yet, are ciliates. A clump of lactobacilli:

There was no one hiding in that compost, there just wasn't anyone there.

Seeing the tea contained lots of "biology starters", all those facultative creatures can still be useful: I transplanted some hydrangeas into planters this weekend - which had been half-filled with really bad, oh, dirt lol
So I added the waste-reduced-organic matter I had bought as "compost" to it, and then gave them the tea. Those guys can get the environment started, better microbial innoculation pending!

But back indoors!
So Lefty is doing her thing, but not exploding. Yeah, I need some compost tea for her
Thing is, with all this change in mindset that is involved with going soil food web, I don't have a plan B.
So I'll probably be taking that trip towards end of the week, tho it feels too late for the Pineapple Express.
Autos sure are stressy!

Here she is, at day 20:


I was going to chop the BerryBomb, but when I checked the trichs they're still half ways clear. So giving her a few more days too.

There was some chopping on that side of the closet anyways: I've trimmed the tomato down to the height of the lights so she doesn't eat any more of my precious soil than is necessary haha.
Oh and the tomatoes are beginning to ripen

Pineapple Express #1 has gone into cure. I overdried her a bit, hopefully not too much - Humidity went to 58% when I bottled the buds up. Added a bovar 62% the next day.
For those interested in yields: she actually threw 14g dry haha
A very uplifting and activating smoke, the terpenes aren't much developped - just a whiff of pineapple, but that's certainly to do with the chinese lights. My NL#5xhaze still amazes with her complexity

 

[applejuicer10]

this is the slow part of a grow thes is where patients wears thin & I've made most of my mistakes the other boo- boo's mainly come from supercropping after the 4 th. beer

Genuinely one of the funniest posts I've read on this forum

 

[iHearAll]

So I went out this weekend to try and source some (worm)compost - I do know of a place in a town nearby where they have some, but as I was short on time I made do - for starts - with what I found in the stores nearby. "Gardener's Compost", they call it, from Compo.

When I opened the bag, sheer blackness. Uhoh. Bad sign.
View attachment 3764105
Checking it out under the microscope, I found the microbiology to be less diverse than the really bad soil I've been recovering in the garden outside.
View attachment 3764107
A diverse bacterial population, and an occasional shred of a beneficial fungus, that was it. not a single "higher" critter about.

So I brewed up a tea, just in case they were dormant and/or my inexperienced eye just wasn't seeing them.
I checked it after about 26hrs and a dire sight it was. Not a decent flagellate in sight. Not a single testate amoeba, which I can recognize well (I was beginning to doubt myself for not finding anyone in there.. lmao). Forget nematodes.
Instead, I saw growing lactobacillus populations, actinomyces, and a single "fishie" - which I'm pretty sure, tho not certain yet, are ciliates. A clump of lactobacilli:
View attachment 3764131
There was no one hiding in that compost, there just wasn't anyone there.

Seeing the tea contained lots of "biology starters", all those facultative creatures can still be useful: I transplanted some hydrangeas into planters this weekend - which had been half-filled with really bad, oh, dirt lol
So I added the waste-reduced-organic matter I had bought as "compost" to it, and then gave them the tea. Those guys can get the environment started, better microbial innoculation pending!

But back indoors!
So Lefty is doing her thing, but not exploding. Yeah, I need some compost tea for her
Thing is, with all this change in mindset that is involved with going soil food web, I don't have a plan B.
So I'll probably be taking that trip towards end of the week, tho it feels too late for the Pineapple Express.
Autos sure are stressy!

Here she is, at day 20:
View attachment 3764133 View attachment 3764134

I was going to chop the BerryBomb, but when I checked the trichs they're still half ways clear. So giving her a few more days too.
View attachment 3764132
There was some chopping on that side of the closet anyways: I've trimmed the tomato down to the height of the lights so she doesn't eat any more of my precious soil than is necessary haha.
Oh and the tomatoes are beginning to ripen

Pineapple Express #1 has gone into cure. I overdried her a bit, hopefully not too much - Humidity went to 58% when I bottled the buds up. Added a bovar 62% the next day.
For those interested in yields: she actually threw 14g dry haha
A very uplifting and activating smoke, the terpenes aren't much developped - just a whiff of pineapple, but that's certainly to do with the chinese lights. My NL#5xhaze still amazes with her complexity

what zoom microscope do you use?

 

[iHearAll]

Here it is - stalking a flagellate through living soil and all the sights to be seen there - accompanied by one of my alltime favorite bands

that nematode!!!!!!! ahhhh i love this. that song makes this so entertaining

 

[calliandra]

what zoom microscope do you use?

This one: http://www.microscopenet.com/40x400x-binocular-compound-siedentopf-microscope-with-builtin-digital-camera-soil-p-9814.html

Although when I went to find the link, I saw Ingham updated her recommendation for a more powerful one:
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/Microscopes.html

Based on my experience to now with the one I have, it may be worth considering this newer - and more powerful (incl. the cam) - microscope if you're thinking of getting one
I keep wishing I could magnify my findings just that bit more (like to 1000x, which as far as I understand it is pretty much the maximum for the shadowing technique used to be able to see the microbes alive), on the one hand. I do think I can supplement with a 100x objective (and toss the 10x, which I really don't use, as I usually end up scanning the slide with 200x magnification), but those cost a good 70$...

Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

that nematode!!!!!!! ahhhh i love this. that song makes this so entertaining

Haha thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Yeah those nematodes are crazy when they're on the hunt

 

[calliandra]

So I've let my gut feeling take over and have ended this experiment:

• the Berry Bomb got chopped, the mulch removed from her pot (and yeah, she and the tomato ate 5cm of soil this round haha) to start getting those fungus gnats under control by letting the topsoil dry out.
  
  
  
• the mulch in the PE pot got mixed into the soil for the same reason and because I don't have a real earthworm population in there yet which could do the job. The soil has a great smell and lovely fluffy-bouncy texture though!
  
  
  
• and the lights got reset to 16/8. In the nick of time too, yesterday Lefty was 3 weeks old and today I found preflowers.
  
  
  So perfect time to start giving her more light
  Also, I've disconnected one of the COBs on the tomato side, as all I want her to do is finish ripening her fruit and temps are pretty high now with all the CXBs on and a heat wave going on. Turns out this plant is a cross of last years cocktail tomatoes and orange regulars - fun! I want those seeds!
  
  I'm going to rethink COB positioning too. I think I only need 1 COB for starts and partways into veg. When the plant is larger, I can then add the 2nd COB. Positioning for this could be the 2 COBs in the middle, right next to each other, perhaps, taking me back to the single module approach... I'll see how that idea pans out as I continue to observe

Cheers!

 

[TheStickMan]

Well done on the harvest Calli, nearly triple than what you expected!
I wish I could contribute more to this thread, but I'm just a DWC grower and not as smart as you proper soil growers, jesus, you guys use some long words!! PMSL

 

[calliandra]

Well done on the harvest Calli, nearly triple than what you expected!
I wish I could contribute more to this thread, but I'm just a DWC grower and not as smart as you proper soil growers, jesus, you guys use some long words!! PMSL

Haha thanks Stick!
Yeah turns out the PE overyielded the Berry Bomb too, which gave just 13,3g despite my leaving her for longer. All in all I didn't enjoy the BerryBomb as a strain at all and am not tempted to try other Bombs in future. (whew one problem less? haha)

Meanwhile I couldn't leave my hands off the Pineapple Express and have LSTed her into a quite nice shape.
Here she is 2 days ago (I had begun the training 3 days earlier):


And this morning at 4 full weeks:


Lovely structure developing along that lainover main stem!


I'll just let her take off from here.
Cheers!