PAR measurement thread

[sixstring2112]

And again, those do not show 400µmols to be the ideal range.
Please cite specifically. If you want to be the "mr scientific" you are trying to portray, then use correct citation of your sources.

The fact that you say "failed business" about me(another false personal attack) and still do not provide evidence of your claims is just more proof of your ignorance.

hey brosef,can a brother get some 1400 to 1600ma drivers from said failed company lmao.when you get a sec gimme a pm cause im in need again

 

[PhotonFUD]

So that is a big fat NO again I see. You have nothing to show(from your or another source) and are saying false things about me and my company to make yourself feel better and somehow put me down buy lying about me. I would rethink your logic dude.

So just to be 100% clear...you have no example of your claims being used?

Using your own words.......So just to be 100% clear:

If you don't have anything to share, please run along.

 

[PhotonFUD]

hey brosef,can a brother get some 1400 to 1600ma drivers from said failed company lmao.when you get a sec gimme a pm cause im in need again

Why not get them through somewhere reputable like cobkits? At least you now know what to expect for customer service

 

[sixstring2112]

oh by the way,18 inch measurements.i need to make a stick for better accuracy but,im getting like 550 to 600ppfd @ 18 in under the cobs @ 1050ma and around 500 to 520 under a used 600w hps.lamp was new on 7-5-16. under a dif 600w lamp that is much older im getting just 450 to 480ish ppfd. that lamp is about 9 months old. newish gavita @ 705w (a 750w lamp) is just 650 to 675. so ill do more when i get time to set it up proper.also the cree 3590 72v version @ 1050ma is pushing 700ppfd easy but theres a def weak spot in the center of my 4 light fixture,spacing is 24 in square and only seeing about 460 to 480 in the center at 18 in down but at 12 in down its even worse like 350ppfd so i def coulda used another cob in the center of that one.crazy how much the par drops on older hps,im curious to see these cob readings in a year or 2

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

oh by the way,18 inch measurements.i need to make a stick for better accuracy but,im getting like 550 to 600ppfd @ 18 in under the cobs @ 1050ma and around 500 to 520 under a used 600w hps.lamp was new on 7-5-16. under a dif 600w lamp that is much older im getting just 450 to 480ish ppfd. that lamp is about 9 months old. newish gavita @ 705w (a 750w lamp) is just 650 to 675. so ill do more when i get time to set it up proper.also the cree 3590 72v version @ 1050ma is pushing 700ppfd easy but theres a def weak spot in the center of my 4 light fixture,spacing is 24 in square and only seeing about 460 to 480 in the center at 18 in down but at 12 in down its even worse like 350ppfd so i def coulda used another cob in the center of that one.crazy how much the par drops on older hps,im curious to see these cob readings in a year or 2

Interesting that the 750 is getting better PPFD than the Pro 1000... Unless those ones were PPF measurements at the same height? Cobs should last well over 50,000 hours and even past 120,000 hours if cooled properly and not ran too hot.

 

[Icemud420]

So anyone else have PPFD results to post?

Here are a few earlier videos I got, before I started making the charts and doing readings in a grid but it does show different LED models and the PPFD readings with my apogee. Pretty much they only show center PPFD readings, but at multiple heights... so they are results... These are in no way very accurate and mainly just a reference measurement for those that were interested in the panels capabilities... so please don't hate on my vids as it still is data. (also please don't hate me because I used Mars products, before i knew any better...LOL) I no longer own them. hhaa

Here are a few...(the videos are long, unboxing and test videos, so for PPFD readings skip to the end of the videos)

Also.. please don't laugh if I said "uuuoomole" haha, I know they were micromoles but I was stoned and saying it as I was typing them...

 

[sixstring2112]

Why not get them through somewhere reputable like cobkits? At least you now know what to expect for customer service

duder,i get first rate service from gg every time and he has gone above and beyond for me on several orders. @robincnn is the same way.i wont fix what aint broke

gg is just frustrated like many of us,about guys spewing all kinds of led info like its set in stone but alot of it is coming from guys who appear to be not even growing.what are we to think? i mean data sheets and college papers only go so far in a discussion about canna on a canna forum.real world stats with photo proof just holds much more credibility around most these types of forums.its just the way most of us see things.i can point to multiple threads here where guys are just saying things to either sound smart or flat out make the sale.shit we had a guy trying to tell growmau5 how shitty the heatsinks he uses are even after hearing he had 1000x more experience with said heat sinks lol.it gets crazy around here some days with all the info,hows a newbie like me supposed to decifer all the bs from actual factual growing equipment?
your not going to win a lighting argument with gg unless you show us a decent size warehouse full of pot plants.lettuce wont cut it here either haha.im not trying to pile on either,im also in the show me pics camp.otherwise im forced to be sceptical of certain posts.

 

[sixstring2112]

Interesting that the 750 is getting better PPFD than the Pro 1000... Unless those ones were PPF measurements at the same height? Cobs should last well over 50,000 hours and even past 120,000 hours if cooled properly and not ran too hot.

yes same 18 in distance,which i know is kinda close for a de but i wanted to know lol

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

yes same 18 in distance,which i know is kinda close for a de but i wanted to know lol

I measured at 1Ft... height rules are for the weak lol Ill be running it at around 2Ft for the side by side... Ive seen enough that shows me thats not a bad place to start. I didnt burn my plants at 2.5FT so whats another 6in?

 

[PhotonFUD]

duder,i get first rate service from gg every time and he has gone above and beyond for me on several orders. @robincnn is the same way.i wont fix what aint broke

gg is just frustrated like many of us,about guys spewing all kinds of led info like its set in stone but alot of it is coming from guys who appear to be not even growing.what are we to think? i mean data sheets and college papers only go so far in a discussion about canna on a canna forum.real world stats with photo proof just holds much more credibility around most these types of forums.its just the way most of us see things.i can point to multiple threads here where guys are just saying things to either sound smart or flat out make the sale.shit we had a guy trying to tell growmau5 how shitty the heatsinks he uses are even after hearing he had 1000x more experience with said heat sinks lol.it gets crazy around here some days with all the info,hows a newbie like me supposed to decifer all the bs from actual factual growing equipment?
your not going to win a lighting argument with gg unless you show us a decent size warehouse full of pot plants.lettuce wont cut it here either haha.im not trying to pile on either,im also in the show me pics camp.otherwise im forced to be sceptical of certain posts.

I know, that is why I kept letting 'outs' for them with 'well do what you want'

There is far too much garbage info out there, totally agree, and even worse, a lot of it comes from so called reliable sources.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to post any photos to this forum which is why I just contribute what I know with links to public sources that anyone can read. I always say that you can do what you want and that you should do your own research. In fact, much of the PPFD and DLI topic has been discussed on these and other forums 5 years ago so this is just rehashing of old information.

Besides there is no way to verify or validate any results of grows that anyone has/is posting on these forums. For all we know people switch lights out, use pictures from others grows, whatever. As such, I make no claim of anything other than what is publicly available.

Universities are doing lots of research and getting good funding from commercial operations. If you want real answers then figure out exactly what you want tested and put up the funding. A good ~200k might get you a researcher and lab time for 6 months.

Or instead, do some reading, figure out the scientific method and start testing yourself. Some people define that as a hobby

 

[Abiqua]

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to post any photos to this forum Because I am LEO.....which is why I just contribute what I know with links to public sources that anyone can read. I always say that you can do what you want and that you should do your own research. In fact, much of the PPFD and DLI topic has been discussed on these and other forums 5 years ago so this is just rehashing of old information.

Besides there is no way to verify or validate any results of grows that anyone has/is posting on these forums. For all we know people switch lights out, use pictures from others grows, whatever. As such, I make no claim of anything other than what is publicly available.

Universities are doing lots of research and getting good funding from commercial operations. If you want real answers then figure out exactly what you want tested and put up the funding. A good ~200k might get you a researcher and lab time for 6 months.

Or instead, do some reading, figure out the scientific method and start testing yourself. Some people define that as a hobby

What strain again Dorothy?

 

[Abiqua]

I know, that is why I kept letting 'outs' for them with 'well do what you want'

There is far too much garbage info out there, totally agree, and even worse, a lot of it comes from so called reliable sources.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to post any photos to this forum which is why I just contribute what I know with links to public sources that anyone can read. I always say that you can do what you want and that you should do your own research. In fact, much of the PPFD and DLI topic has been discussed on these and other forums 5 years ago so this is just rehashing of old information.

Besides there is no way to verify or validate any results of grows that anyone has/is posting on these forums. For all we know people switch lights out, use pictures from others grows, whatever. As such, I make no claim of anything other than what is publicly available.

Universities are doing lots of research and getting good funding from commercial operations. If you want real answers then figure out exactly what you want tested and put up the funding. A good ~200k might get you a researcher and lab time for 6 months.

Or instead, do some reading, figure out the scientific method and start testing yourself. Some people define that as a hobby

Do you read what you type? You demand proof while deem being worthy not to provide it. Stop the presses, bitchez.

 

[PhotonFUD]

Do you read what you type? You demand proof while deem being worthy not to provide it. Stop the presses, bitchez.

Yeah I agree, they demand proof without being worthy.

 

[wietefras]

A course text from Cambridge University Press isn't valid?

No, that's not valid since it's a generalized school book example of a light response curve, yet you present it as if that is the one single light response curve for all species of plants. As has been explained to you countless times already, every plant is different and even different leaves on a plant will have a different light response curve. The leaves growing in the shade might possibly max out at 400umol/s/m2, because they have developed working with lower light intensities. The leaves directly under the light should be able to process even 1500umol/s/m2.

 

[AtterStiga]

How would one go about calculating ppfd from multiple sources of light, ie cob grow lights? Is it so easy as to add all the sources? I can't quite believe it is. But with ppfd ready, is DLI found the usual way (ppfdXhX3600/1m)? Loved the abbreviated version, gonna go find it now...

Btw, my daddy's stronger than all ya's daddies! See, didn't even have to bring up my size. Love yous lol

 

[sixstring2112]

So anyone else have PPFD results to post?

Here are a few earlier videos I got, before I started making the charts and doing readings in a grid but it does show different LED models and the PPFD readings with my apogee. Pretty much they only show center PPFD readings, but at multiple heights... so they are results... These are in no way very accurate and mainly just a reference measurement for those that were interested in the panels capabilities... so please don't hate on my vids as it still is data. (also please don't hate me because I used Mars products, before i knew any better...LOL) I no longer own them. hhaa

Here are a few...(the videos are long, unboxing and test videos, so for PPFD readings skip to the end of the videos)

Also.. please don't laugh if I said "uuuoomole" haha, I know they were micromoles but I was stoned and saying it as I was typing them...

so i went ahead and watched all the vids.im curious to see what some of those readings would be with the electric light setting.i know you said you talked to apogee but im not really seeing any white light in your tests.i just think there is way more reds and blues in there than whites,maybe im wrong though.the mq200 is also missing alot of those reds and blues so your numbers could be alot higher than you think ? at any rate it was cool to see you do some tetsing on various mixed diode panels for us,def gives me something to compare cob lighting to as my mars panel is in shambles lol

 

[wietefras]

How would one go about calculating ppfd from multiple sources of light, ie cob grow lights? Is it so easy as to add all the sources? I can't quite believe it is.

Why woudln't it be? PPF is simply a measure of the amount of photons going in. It's like filling a bucket with water. 10 liters is 10 liters.

Of course some lights will be closer to the wall and have more wall losses than others, but of course you can adjust for that as well. A bigger room will have less wall losses than a smaller one.

Professional grow rooms are designed with software that predicts PPFD based on the lights used and distribution of those lights..

 

[AtterStiga]

Why woudln't it be? PPF is simply a measure of the amount of photons going in. It's like filling a bucket with water. 10 liters is 10 liters.

Of course some lights will be closer to the wall and have more wall losses than others, but of course you can adjust for that as well. A bigger room will have less wall losses than a smaller one.

Professional grow rooms are designed with software that predicts PPFD based on the lights used and distribution of those lights..

Why? Because it would be typical lol. Thanks.

 

[PhotonFUD]

Why woudln't it be? PPF is simply a measure of the amount of photons going in. It's like filling a bucket with water. 10 liters is 10 liters.

Of course some lights will be closer to the wall and have more wall losses than others, but of course you can adjust for that as well. A bigger room will have less wall losses than a smaller one.

Professional grow rooms are designed with software that predicts PPFD based on the lights used and distribution of those lights..

Incorrect. PPF would be photons emitted at source, so going out. In order to fill that 10 liter bucket, it would have to catch all of the light. If the bucket had a small radius (think a tube) you will have to have a much higher PPF to fill it since on part of the light source is going into the bucket. You are even wrong about wall losses - with the same light source and all other things being equal, a larger room will have more total wall loss than a small one. That is just simple math.

I actually know what you are referring to about reflectivity - yes it does have a significant influence (you can 'redistribute' stray photons recovering up to 80%) on overall PPFD, however you should understand the basics first. PPF is for light source (great for vendors) and PPFD is for gardeners, more importantly, plants. Once you get those settled, we can work on reflectivity ok? I have some interesting numbers on various materials and paint colors.

You are correct that there is software out there to help predict PPFD; it is used for planning. In fact it can be, and often is, accomplished the same using excel. People are already starting to do that on these forums. One member has even gone so far as to visualize the overlap.

As to your comments regarding the text published by Cambridge University Press, its speaks volumes about your character and ignorance. Cambridge is the world's second oldest english language university and a world leader in plant research. Stephen Hawking is a professor there. Any normal person would consider it to be an expert source for factual information.

Anyhow, this isn't about who is right and/or wrong but about the sharing of ideas, concepts, theories and other information for discussion. Personally, I am fine with the rude comments so long as there is benefit to the discussion. It is fairly easy to identify and ignore the ignorant but you still want to see them learn.

Back on topic:

Does anyone have, or could take, measurements for individual light sources of the following:

Vero 18, 29 in 2700k-6500k
CXA,B 3070, 3590, 2700k-6500k
Citi 1212s, 1818s, 1825s, 2700k-6500k

It would be good to collect all this information to get a better understanding of what each light can contribute at what height covering how much area. It will be a lot of info considering all of the different variables but it will be a very good tool for the DIY community. Cobkits has already provided a lot of data but much more is needed. Keeping it all out in the public allows anyone verify and use that data.

Why? It is a bit of a silly question, but it warrants clarity. The answer is to be able to provide the best community vetted guidance on how to build a light source for your environment. It's accuracy will be dependent upon the community providing real world results for commonly used components.

How? Post your results. Measurements come with information about the measure, height, coverage, reflectivity with temperature and other variables as secondary data measures. As more results are posted, the community will standardize on how best to measure going forward.

 

[MrTwist1]

Incorrect. PPF would be photons emitted at source, so going out. In order to fill that 10 liter bucket, it would have to catch all of the light. If the bucket had a small radius (think a tube) you will have to have a much higher PPF to fill it since on part of the light source is going into the bucket. You are even wrong about wall losses - with the same light source and all other things being equal, a larger room will have more total wall loss than a small one. That is just simple math.

I actually know what you are referring to about reflectivity - yes it does have a significant influence (you can 'redistribute' stray photons recovering up to 80%) on overall PPFD, however you should understand the basics first. PPF is for light source (great for vendors) and PPFD is for gardeners, more importantly, plants. Once you get those settled, we can work on reflectivity ok? I have some interesting numbers on various materials and paint colors.

You are correct that there is software out there to help predict PPFD; it is used for planning. In fact it can be, and often is, accomplished the same using excel. People are already starting to do that on these forums. One member has even gone so far as to visualize the overlap.

As to your comments regarding the text published by Cambridge University Press, its speaks volumes about your character and ignorance. Cambridge is the world's second oldest english language university and a world leader in plant research. Stephen Hawking is a professor there. Any normal person would consider it to be an expert source for factual information.

Anyhow, this isn't about who is right and/or wrong but about the sharing of ideas, concepts, theories and other information for discussion. Personally, I am fine with the rude comments so long as there is benefit to the discussion. It is fairly easy to identify and ignore the ignorant but you still want to see them learn.

Back on topic:

Does anyone have, or could take, measurements for individual light sources of the following:

Vero 18, 29 in 2700k-6500k
CXA,B 3070, 3590, 2700k-6500k
Citi 1212s, 1818s, 1825s, 2700k-6500k

It would be good to collect all this information to get a better understanding of what each light can contribute at what height covering how much area. It will be a lot of info considering all of the different variables but it will be a very good tool for the DIY community. Cobkits has already provided a lot of data but much more is needed. Keeping it all out in the public allows anyone verify and use that data.

Why? It is a bit of a silly question, but it warrants clarity. The answer is to be able to provide the best community vetted guidance on how to build a light source for your environment. It's accuracy will be dependent upon the community providing real world results for commonly used components.

How? Post your results. Measurements come with information about the measure, height, coverage, reflectivity with temperature and other variables as secondary data measures. As more results are posted, the community will standardize on how best to measure going forward.

Whatever useful information you feel you have to share is unlikely to be heard... cos you come across as a real arrogant douchebag. You might want to work on that if you want people to listen to you