DWC Problems PH PPM unstable I'm looking for some professional help
- Thread starter MWMWMWM
- Start date
That is the route I'm taking. I resisted for so long because of familiarity/ cost of system, size, production, and sheer enjoyment of watching plants jump out their ass as well as refusing to admit defeat.I have no clue wtf this issue is, or what the answer might be.
That said let me offer some advice that will allow you to quickly and simply grow some buds: Use soil my friendthe god of hydro clearly hates you!
So far the soil has not been as bad as I thought it would be. There is a lot less equipment. The rooms are quieter. Most importantly I am seeing healthy growth! Even if it is at a relative glacial pace.
I don't know what I ever did to hydro to deserve this but facts are facts.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Okay, this may be a bit late.. but the white cloud is precipitation. At that point, the solution is basically unstable and you have to start over with a fresh tank.
So why are you getting the precipitation? The precipitant is likely calcium phosphate. The reason you get it when you add pH down is because you're adding phosphoric acid to a solution that's very high in calcium. You either need to reduce the calcium, use nitric acid instead of phosphoric acid, or reduce the amount of phosphate you're feeding.
The only nitric acid based pH down I know of is Technaflora, or you could buy 30% nitric acid online (handle with care). Calcium nitrate is highly soluble, and thus will not be a precipitant from excess nitrates.
So why are you getting the precipitation? The precipitant is likely calcium phosphate. The reason you get it when you add pH down is because you're adding phosphoric acid to a solution that's very high in calcium. You either need to reduce the calcium, use nitric acid instead of phosphoric acid, or reduce the amount of phosphate you're feeding.
The only nitric acid based pH down I know of is Technaflora, or you could buy 30% nitric acid online (handle with care). Calcium nitrate is highly soluble, and thus will not be a precipitant from excess nitrates.
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just throwing this out there, i have had real bad issue with slime and ph/ppm swings. i have no light leaks, but warm res temps between 70-73. i used 10ml/4gl of h202 daily for 7 days. killed slime. started using flying skulls Z7 water conditioner at 1/2ml per gl. and also using UC roots by current culture. no more slime, no more ph swings, no more ppm swings, really happy plants.
Thanks for the input. I just ran a test bucket for the heck of it with no ph up or down. Tap water only with chlorine / chloramite remover.
1:15pm 90 ppm 7.3ph
1:36 120ppm 6.4ph
1:42 130ppm 6.2
3:15 200ppm 4.7ph
3:51pm 220 ppm 4.6ph
4:52pm 250 ppm 4.5ph
This is about where I start drinking again.
I tried the z7 quite some time ago. It slowed the reaction but did not eliminate it. By slowing it I mean it stopped the progression for an hour or so. I ended up adding the entire bottle of z7 just to prove a point. The progression continued.
Great advice though.
I've also tired silicon basing the water. No luck there either.
By the way, my soil situation is failing in the same regard.
superstoner1
Well-Known Member
Go without a media so you can rule it out. Simple is best and I only use netpot and collars, no media from clone to harvest. I am on a 10 day vacation now and have 350gal of RES's I don't worry about.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I had similar problems in my RDWC until I began to chill the nutrient water. That and good aeration slammed the brakes on the weirdness from pathogens.
I continued to have problems with nutrient issues until I walked the Fuck out of the hydro store and got dry nutrient salts from a greenhouse supplier. Less in it to go wrong, guaranteed results, simple mixes. And Oh My God, is it cheaper!
Now I watch plants jump out of my netpots Lamborghini style, with res changes just every other week.
I continued to have problems with nutrient issues until I walked the Fuck out of the hydro store and got dry nutrient salts from a greenhouse supplier. Less in it to go wrong, guaranteed results, simple mixes. And Oh My God, is it cheaper!
Now I watch plants jump out of my netpots Lamborghini style, with res changes just every other week.
This is what happens to water in my reservoir when I add 1 ml / 10 gallons of physan 20. This example is 5 ml / 50 gallons of water. As you can see in the photos, a light tan discharge rises on top of the foaming action of the physan 20. The tan discharge turns to brown with a oil like consistency. The oil is flammable and has a God awful finish of carbon when ignited.
I have a feeling that this substance is the source of my problems but I have no idea what it is. I still get this substance when I run RO water also although in less quantity. Treated or not, this water will not support healthy growth.
This is city water.
I have a feeling that this substance is the source of my problems but I have no idea what it is. I still get this substance when I run RO water also although in less quantity. Treated or not, this water will not support healthy growth.
This is city water.
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Do you happen to have a picture of what that looks like. I'm having trouble understanding how the plant maintains its stability.
Thx
themutherfunkindthatsme
Active Member
its the plants system responded to your initially ph.. dwc/rdwc ph over 5.8 rots especially organics. qed 5.3-5.8tops!
Guymandude68
New Member
when i was in hydro, the ph would drop like a rock if there was pythium on the roots.
a wise old grower once told me:
ppms go down, ph goes up, plant are hungry increase your nutes.
ppms go up, ph drops, plants have too much, lower your nutes
ppms remain the same, ph remains the same - you have achieved equilibrium = beautiful thang
ppms remain the same, ph drops, change your solution, clean you buckets and start over. Possible crud growing in the buckets: root rot, pythium, etc
a wise old grower once told me:
ppms go down, ph goes up, plant are hungry increase your nutes.
ppms go up, ph drops, plants have too much, lower your nutes
ppms remain the same, ph remains the same - you have achieved equilibrium = beautiful thang
ppms remain the same, ph drops, change your solution, clean you buckets and start over. Possible crud growing in the buckets: root rot, pythium, etc
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
This is like the spider mite of res issues and I kind of lost hope for him. Then church came in with a good point, hope was building. Nope. I wonder if he ever did solve these issues or if he drank himself to death.
Yesdog
Well-Known Member
Oh crap, you know what. I think I ended up doing the exact same thing to myself this last res change. Was from using ph Down and Up. The ph up seems to be some freaking impossibly hard to break carbonate buffer (like maybe 5 ml of down, followed by maybe 20ml of up since then). I do also have a strong precipitate that seems to come and go depending on how fast/much im adjusting.
Needlessly to say, I have to change the rez soon (this rez change was a big fail). The plants are pretty pissed, foliar feeding right now.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Is the pH up you're using potassium carbonate or calcium carbonate? Even potassium hydroxide, which is ideal for hydro, might cause precipitants if calcium and phosphate levels are excessively high just from raising the pH. The best way to prevent precipitants is to avoid excessively high phosphate levels.
Oh crap, you know what. I think I ended up doing the exact same thing to myself this last res change. Was from using ph Down and Up. The ph up seems to be some freaking impossibly hard to break carbonate buffer (like maybe 5 ml of down, followed by maybe 20ml of up since then). I do also have a strong precipitate that seems to come and go depending on how fast/much im adjusting.
Needlessly to say, I have to change the rez soon (this rez change was a big fail). The plants are pretty pissed, foliar feeding right now.
Yesdog
Well-Known Member
im guessing the ph up (gh ph up) was potassium carbonate. Good info on avoid phosphates- im assuming that was one of those weird salt solubility rules i forgot. i dont think ive ever had anything ever go right when i used the ph up- probably best just to avoid it in the future- if the ph drops that low, ill just change the rez. ive never had a mix start anywhere near 'low'.
b4ds33d
Well-Known Member
or dilute the solutions he's adding. if he's dumping straight nutes/ph up or down into his res that already has chemicals in it, precipitation will absolutely occur.