1 bag of soil. What goes on from here?

[yungkodama]

Hello all I hope the day is going well.

reason why I made this thread was because in a nuttshell I have 1 bag of fresh new Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil. I have some babies in some solo's and soon will have to transplant to maybe some 3 gallons or a 7 gallon and call it a day there. What I want to do is slowly add a N mix with some P or maybe a well balanced mix with a slightly higher N so they can veg for another week or 2.

Where do I start?
If you could start fresh where would you start?

I can add some compost from this local company called Tanks Green Stufff and I hear good things but as far as adding stuff such as guanos or meals. Where and what would you do to start? Im looking for the most affordable and simplest way to go about this so I can slowly learn as my soil will slowly gain microbe activity!

Sorry if this post is something that is really commonly asked. I looked around for something simple but alot of this stuff just bounces around on the thread and I couldnt find anything with a simple answer in which direction to go. Thank you for your time and have a kick ass day!

 

[Chunky Stool]

Just use the ocean forest + water only for young plants. They get fresh nutes each time you repot.
In fact, you can use ocean forest all the way through bloom and do great. Just top dress with a little guano and langbenite for extra phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, and magnesium. I've got a Jack Herer in FFOF right now that's kicking some serious butt.

 

[Dr. Who]

Chunks right but, I get the feeling your looking to understand how to do a "water only" and use OF as the base.

It can be done but, lets take quick look at just the OF first.
OF is sourced from nature. FF buys the rights to harvest soils from the woods and forests in America. There have been many locations this is done and they all vary in NPK and overall content. FF then amends the harvested soil with a few things depending on value's and content from that location. The soil is Limed (NEVER enough and this has been for years), and texture is adjusted to be uniform. Some minor other additions are done to bring NPK levels to fall in a pre set value. The thing is, FFOF varies in many ways and includes many hitch hikers that we don't like also! Like Gnats, some others came be present also and have been told that some suspect other things have come from it. I have never seen anything worse then Gnats but, suspect that a few of those stories have fact in them.
I know they have been harvesting from the NE and some South Eastern location. I don't Know if the NW and Western locations are in operation right now. Each of these locations always seem to make the soil act a bit different...That's something you notice if you grow a lot and for a long time. For the most part. It's not a factor to worry about.

Now then.....there was back like 12 years ago or something like that. A story in High Times about something called the "Moonshine Mix" soil. Back then it involved using all 3 FF soils and amending that to make a "water only" soil..There are more updated methods that include other soil beside FF..It works but, you asked to do that to with OF only. This mix goes way farther back then that but, was always a word of mouth thing. Sometimes held close and not really shared with much detail.

There are big questions involved here!
How long do you intend to veg?
How tall do you intend the plant to be at harvest?
The thing being that this soil mix is now best for long running plant that reach around 6ft...

Simple answer would be to amend a single bag (1 cft) with -
2/3 cup of Dolomite lime
1 gallon of fresh earth worm castings
1/2 gallon well composted steer/cow manure
1/4 cup Kelp meal
1/4 cup alfalfa meal
2 gallons of coarse perlite
Lastly
1/3 cup of a balanced feed mix. The original called for 1 cup of a Tomato feed (piece of mind - FF) to 3.5 cft of soil) This is too low in N and too high in P for a start to finish run in my book....I might use 1/4 cup of any organic tomato mix and add a higher N source to bring it up to 1/3 cup....Say stinging nettle leaves (dried and crushed) or even carefully add some high N bat guano...
There are plenty of N sources out there to employ to get what you need. I would be inclined to use a medium release N source.

Here's a cpl of sites, that may help.
https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/npk-value-of-everything-organic-searchable-database/

http://www.lundproduce.com/N-P-K-Value-of-Everything.html

Good luck

 

[HydoDan]

Have a look at the Dr Earth homegrown tomato and vegetable fert and flower girl bud and bloom booster...
You can mix with soil, top dress or make a tea.. Super simple and you don't have left over bags of ingredients..
http://drearth.com/products/

 

[yungkodama]

Just use the ocean forest + water only for young plants. They get fresh nutes each time you repot.
In fact, you can use ocean forest all the way through bloom and do great. Just top dress with a little guano and langbenite for extra phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, and magnesium. I've got a Jack Herer in FFOF right now that's kicking some serious butt.

Ive used FFOF before and really liked what she did for me, used her solo and once with some Rock Nutrients and well now just want to see what the real deal (organics) is like. Good soil overall

 

[yungkodama]

Chunks right but, I get the feeling your looking to understand how to do a "water only" and use OF as the base.

It can be done but, lets take quick look at just the OF first.
OF is sourced from nature. FF buys the rights to harvest soils from the woods and forests in America. There have been many locations this is done and they all vary in NPK and overall content. FF then amends the harvested soil with a few things depending on value's and content from that location. The soil is Limed (NEVER enough and this has been for years), and texture is adjusted to be uniform. Some minor other additions are done to bring NPK levels to fall in a pre set value. The thing is, FFOF varies in many ways and includes many hitch hikers that we don't like also! Like Gnats, some others came be present also and have been told that some suspect other things have come from it. I have never seen anything worse then Gnats but, suspect that a few of those stories have fact in them.
I know they have been harvesting from the NE and some South Eastern location. I don't Know if the NW and Western locations are in operation right now. Each of these locations always seem to make the soil act a bit different...That's something you notice if you grow a lot and for a long time. For the most part. It's not a factor to worry about.

Now then.....there was back like 12 years ago or something like that. A story in High Times about something called the "Moonshine Mix" soil. Back then it involved using all 3 FF soils and amending that to make a "water only" soil..There are more updated methods that include other soil beside FF..It works but, you asked to do that to with OF only. This mix goes way farther back then that but, was always a word of mouth thing. Sometimes held close and not really shared with much detail.

There are big questions involved here!
How long do you intend to veg?
How tall do you intend the plant to be at harvest?
The thing being that this soil mix is now best for long running plant that reach around 6ft...

Simple answer would be to amend a single bag (1 cft) with -
2/3 cup of Dolomite lime
1 gallon of fresh earth worm castings
1/2 gallon well composted steer/cow manure
1/4 cup Kelp meal
1/4 cup alfalfa meal
2 gallons of coarse perlite
Lastly
1/3 cup of a balanced feed mix. The original called for 1 cup of a Tomato feed (piece of mind - FF) to 3.5 cft of soil) This is too low in N and too high in P for a start to finish run in my book....I might use 1/4 cup of any organic tomato mix and add a higher N source to bring it up to 1/3 cup....Say stinging nettle leaves (dried and crushed) or even carefully add some high N bat guano...
There are plenty of N sources out there to employ to get what you need. I would be inclined to use a medium release N source.

Here's a cpl of sites, that may help.
https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/npk-value-of-everything-organic-searchable-database/

http://www.lundproduce.com/N-P-K-Value-of-Everything.html

Good luck

Thank you thank you.

Water only is what im really trying to go for and just recycle what I use and slowly add ammendments. Not trying to get a massive mix. That recipe you shared with me sounds simple enough for me to get into before I set these girls in a new home. Im probably going to leave 2 of the girls just with the soil itself and very little N guano, some P and K when shes into bloom but so very little just to see what the difference comes to.

What im really trying to do is short veg and mostly mess with clones but I really really want to achieve the goal of having plentiful of microbe friends in my soil so im not sure what exactly to do but I will take that recipe in mind its already set up for a small scale thing anyways Im not sure how many ladies I will get hope I just see 2 or 3 males tops

 

[yungkodama]

Just use the ocean forest + water only for young plants. They get fresh nutes each time you repot.
In fact, you can use ocean forest all the way through bloom and do great. Just top dress with a little guano and langbenite for extra phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, and magnesium. I've got a Jack Herer in FFOF right now that's kicking some serious butt.

Forgot to mention how kick ass this soil is but this recent sprout was so kick ass. I had old seeds like 4 to 3 month old seeds not even in my fridge just laying on my desk in a baggie.

Threw them in RO water for 2 to 3 days as I forgot it isnt always good to leave them in there for more than 24 hrs so they say. I see little tap roots pop and leave them in for another day then they went to a paper towel for 2 days as the root grew I got 4 CFL coming to 92w and plopped them in the soil at night. The next morning they came up with the shells stil intact. Im at day 5 and they are halfway done working on the second node under a 600w dimmed to 300w and so far so good im happy with the growth. I thank the light n soil

 

[yungkodama]

Chunks right but, I get the feeling your looking to understand how to do a "water only" and use OF as the base.

It can be done but, lets take quick look at just the OF first.
OF is sourced from nature. FF buys the rights to harvest soils from the woods and forests in America. There have been many locations this is done and they all vary in NPK and overall content. FF then amends the harvested soil with a few things depending on value's and content from that location. The soil is Limed (NEVER enough and this has been for years), and texture is adjusted to be uniform. Some minor other additions are done to bring NPK levels to fall in a pre set value. The thing is, FFOF varies in many ways and includes many hitch hikers that we don't like also! Like Gnats, some others came be present also and have been told that some suspect other things have come from it. I have never seen anything worse then Gnats but, suspect that a few of those stories have fact in them.
I know they have been harvesting from the NE and some South Eastern location. I don't Know if the NW and Western locations are in operation right now. Each of these locations always seem to make the soil act a bit different...That's something you notice if you grow a lot and for a long time. For the most part. It's not a factor to worry about.

Now then.....there was back like 12 years ago or something like that. A story in High Times about something called the "Moonshine Mix" soil. Back then it involved using all 3 FF soils and amending that to make a "water only" soil..There are more updated methods that include other soil beside FF..It works but, you asked to do that to with OF only. This mix goes way farther back then that but, was always a word of mouth thing. Sometimes held close and not really shared with much detail.

There are big questions involved here!
How long do you intend to veg?
How tall do you intend the plant to be at harvest?
The thing being that this soil mix is now best for long running plant that reach around 6ft...

Simple answer would be to amend a single bag (1 cft) with -
2/3 cup of Dolomite lime
1 gallon of fresh earth worm castings
1/2 gallon well composted steer/cow manure
1/4 cup Kelp meal
1/4 cup alfalfa meal
2 gallons of coarse perlite
Lastly
1/3 cup of a balanced feed mix. The original called for 1 cup of a Tomato feed (piece of mind - FF) to 3.5 cft of soil) This is too low in N and too high in P for a start to finish run in my book....I might use 1/4 cup of any organic tomato mix and add a higher N source to bring it up to 1/3 cup....Say stinging nettle leaves (dried and crushed) or even carefully add some high N bat guano...
There are plenty of N sources out there to employ to get what you need. I would be inclined to use a medium release N source.

Here's a cpl of sites, that may help.
https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/npk-value-of-everything-organic-searchable-database/

http://www.lundproduce.com/N-P-K-Value-of-Everything.html

Good luck

Thank you for that first link YES! my sillyness and lack of terminology never was able to lead me to a source like this! Essentially a database of organic matter that tells me the amount of npk ratio. Well thank you sir!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Thank you thank you.

Water only is what im really trying to go for and just recycle what I use and slowly add ammendments. Not trying to get a massive mix. That recipe you shared with me sounds simple enough for me to get into before I set these girls in a new home. Im probably going to leave 2 of the girls just with the soil itself and very little N guano, some P and K when shes into bloom but so very little just to see what the difference comes to.

What im really trying to do is short veg and mostly mess with clones but I really really want to achieve the goal of having plentiful of microbe friends in my soil so im not sure what exactly to do but I will take that recipe in mind its already set up for a small scale thing anyways Im not sure how many ladies I will get hope I just see 2 or 3 males tops

just remember that contrary to some stoner conjecture cannabis does NOT like less nitrogen during flowering, keep it even, you don't need more potassium and phosphorus either, just even amounts.
a reaaaally good slow release form of nitrogen is good composted steer manure, another is composted grass clippings.
fish meal, neem meal (highly recommended), crab meal, shrimp meal those are kickass for slow release of nitrogen.
faster release would be more towards guanos, alfalfa, comfrey..
the good thing about nitrogen is that it's the easiest thing to remedy if you run dry on it, which most plant will do, it is the most needed/used macro by far

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Ive used FFOF before and really liked what she did for me, used her solo and once with some Rock Nutrients and well now just want to see what the real deal (organics) is like. Good soil overall

where are you at? (just roughly)
reason i ask, is craigslist is a good source of both fresh worm castings AND good compost (not the shittty sawdust, shredded tree compost that ya get everywhere)

 

[yungkodama]

just remember that contrary to some stoner conjecture cannabis does NOT like less nitrogen during flowering, keep it even, you don't need more potassium and phosphorus either, just even amounts.
a reaaaally good slow release form of nitrogen is good composted steer manure, another is composted grass clippings.
fish meal, neem meal (highly recommended), crab meal, shrimp meal those are kickass for slow release of nitrogen.
faster release would be more towards guanos, alfalfa, comfrey..
the good thing about nitrogen is that it's the easiest thing to remedy if you run dry on it, which most plant will do, it is the most needed/used macro by far

Read a article on this and how a guy would add up his ppms between the NPKs giving him a balanced ration but leaned more on either side depending which stage he was in and thats what im going for to, maybe not so detailed on a microscale as im learning and I want to see the outcomes of each ammendment so I myself can fully understand and see what happens with what is used. Thanks for the heads up though lol if I had no clue about that you would have opened me to another book! So thank you! I will def look into getting some meals and making a mix of some sort later as the grow goes on. My stepdad used to use fish heads back in the day lol never saw what he made but he passed down some knowledge and gave some books thankfully. Thanks for the words man!

 

[yungkodama]

where are you at? (just roughly)
reason i ask, is craigslist is a good source of both fresh worm castings AND good compost (not the shittty sawdust, shredded tree compost that ya get everywhere)

Good ol rootin tootin Arizona lol theres a nice local compost company here and I intend to use them as my source for compost! Tanks Green Stuff is the name and they make coco medium and have compost for days they have mountains of that stuff. Also a local shop here that sells fermented horsetail FPE korean farming stuff and plenty of other things such as trace minereals, really good stuff. Then theres another shop named Growers House they are the biggest here in the city and they are kicking ass online to, they are local to but Im looking to support the smaller guys first.

 

[yungkodama]

Anyone gotten into Shilajit? Its a resin that contains 35% fulvic acid seen this one guy on instgram Plant and Prosper get into deeply for himself, plants and pets its pretty dope because it seems natural as fuck and comes from the mountains in nepal really good stuff to look into but it is pretty pricey its like $50 for 3 grams and you are to use .1 per gallon as a foliar spray

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Anyone gotten into Shilajit? Its a resin that contains 35% fulvic acid seen this one guy on instgram Plant and Prosper get into deeply for himself, plants and pets its pretty dope because it seems natural as fuck and comes from the mountains in nepal really good stuff to look into but it is pretty pricey its like $50 for 3 grams and you are to use .1 per gallon as a foliar spray

i wouldn't worry about any of that, a good compost has everything you need in it.

Read a article on this and how a guy would add up his ppms between the NPKs giving him a balanced ration but leaned more on either side depending which stage he was in and thats what im going for to, maybe not so detailed on a microscale as im learning and I want to see the outcomes of each ammendment so I myself can fully understand and see what happens with what is used. Thanks for the heads up though lol if I had no clue about that you would have opened me to another book! So thank you! I will def look into getting some meals and making a mix of some sort later as the grow goes on. My stepdad used to use fish heads back in the day lol never saw what he made but he passed down some knowledge and gave some books thankfully. Thanks for the words man!

if he was upping his "ppms"
then it wasn't a real organic grow man
totally different with a chelated grow vs a natural one

 

[yungkodama]

i wouldn't worry about any of that, a good compost has everything you need in it.

if he was upping his "ppms"
then it wasn't a real organic grow man
totally different with a chelated grow vs a natural one

Swear it was organic but then again im not even trying to talk facts based off my bad memory lol not worth it. And sick so far It appears I should just get inti a compost, castings and maybe some guano and then a P and K ammendment to help along when she flowers.. now I feel like I have a steady grasp and what I will be working towards the next 3 weeks. Excited to start

 

[Chunky Stool]

Some organic ferts already contain compost and some do not. The label will spell it out.
For example, Dr Earth & Epsoma products do not contain compost. Products like Eco Scraps *do* have compost already in the mix.
This is important! If you mix an organic soil without compost, you probably won't have a good gardening experience. (Worm castings can be used instead of compost, but they're more expensive.)

 

[yungkodama]

Some organic ferts already contain compost and some do not. The label will spell it out.
For example, Dr Earth & Epsoma products do not contain compost. Products like Eco Scraps *do* have compost already in the mix.

I believe ocean forest has some composting but a little extra wouldn't hurt I believe and a little extra perlite!
This is important! If you mix an organic soil without compost, you probably won't have a good gardening experience. (Worm castings can be used instead of compost, but they're more expensive.)

 

[Sunny Organics]

Off topic question - nice pic lol , rottweiler?

listen to this guys they know their shit when it comes to soil. what i do after my solo cups is veg them out in 3 gallon pots with a lot of mycorrhizae directly on the roots , top dress with vermicompost and compost. before i do all that i already have a tea prepared to water with.enzyme tea containing fresh coconut water, popcorn sprouts, kelp, and alfalfa. your girls should be pointing upwards for a whole week. next watering i add 2tbsp of homemade aminos ( FFJ ) to 5 gallons of water and your girls will be even happier and exploding in no time. while i veg i cook up my soil if i dont have any. flower is a whole different ball game gotta get your fungal shit on point and ready to top dress accordingly.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Some organic ferts already contain compost and some do not. The label will spell it out.
For example, Dr Earth & Epsoma products do not contain compost. Products like Eco Scraps *do* have compost already in the mix.
This is important! If you mix an organic soil without compost, you probably won't have a good gardening experience. (Worm castings can be used instead of compost, but they're more expensive.)

so often that is the primary step skipped.
it's hard to get some to fully understand that without microbes and a LOT of them, your soil will be totally fine, full of nutrients, but without the nutrients being cycled, it won't work.
sadly many have tried organics and hated it, because they dumped a bunch of nutrients in a soil mix and pissed off their plant by not cycling the soil.
That poor planning mixed with the comparison of observing the growth rates of chelated-chem grows and it's no wonder why people give up and go back to chems.
the reason i preach BOTH a compost and a wormbin is because they tend to breed different types of microbes, in specific the wormbin is almost purely a bacterial microbe population, as opposed to a compost pile that is more fungal (made correctly)
cannabis does in fact prefer more bacterial microbes but it does appreciate fungal ones as well, so i mix them when re-amending the soil (or the initial mix)

 

[Chunky Stool]

I have made so many mistakes, it's mind boggling. One of them was "enhancing" FFOF with a *big* scoop of both alfalfa & kelp meal. More is better, right?
My plants all died a slow death.
In hindsight, I'm pretty sure PH was WAY off & who knows where NPK ended up.
Not pretty.
Don't do that.