When Does Life Begin ...

NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
These kind of debates are funny to me. Arguing morality is like telling a Japanese guy to stop looking so slant eyed. Morality is just what is "socially" acceptable, whats is wrong here might be right somewhere else. Its a matter of HUMAN opinion not divine right. We have to believe that within each man and woman lies the capacity to love. If not the world is lost to us and our so called "morals" stand only as reason to cause more pain and suffering.
Love is the undercurrent of life that we can not see because we are only one drop in the stream of it all. :peace:
 
Hayduke

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Why is anything socially acceptable? Socially acceptable to whom?

Vi
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Wasting fertilized eggs doesn't bother me, but I am not socially acceptable either!

But what about all these old rich women whose selfish biological urges make them bare multiples whose health is at risk from the beginning. Poor kids, their parents will be senior citizens when they are teens. It's like growing up with granny and gramps. Benefit is they can usually afford to spoil them and turn them into little brats, cuz they are such miracles. Selfish bs! :-o
 
Hayduke

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
misshestermoffitt said:
Well it seems to me that "selective reduction" is socially acceptable since you don't hear anyone bitching about it.

You don't see people picketing fertilization clinics. You don't see people trying to blow up fertilization clinics.

Since not 1 person has voiced a negative opinion about "selective reduction" that would make it seem accepted.
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Whoa! don't give those mindless conservatives in Kansas, that vote against their best interest for whomever promises to overturn Rowe v. Wade, any ideas:mrgreen:
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Hayduke said:
Wasting fertilized eggs doesn't bother me, but I am not socially acceptable either!

But what about all these old rich women whose selfish biological urges make them bare multiples whose health is at risk from the beginning. Poor kids, their parents will be senior citizens when they are teens. It's like growing up with granny and gramps. Benefit is they can usually afford to spoil them and turn them into little brats, cuz they are such miracles. Selfish bs! :-o
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Careful ... yer treading on thin ice there ... :bigjoint:

Vi
 
B

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
So, we all in agreement now? Sperm are living, they are alive, so life begins in a man's nutsack. The very Greek root words that make up the word 'spermatozoan' mean 'living semen'. So, that's where life begins. Eggs too, I guess, although only sperm have the full set of chromosomes, both X and Y, unlike eggs, so I'd give the little tadpoles the nod because of that.

When a 'soul' begins, that's a different issue. I can't comment on that one since that has nothing to do with science. But life, that's a scientific concept, and clearly sperm are alive, so that's where life begins. Maybe only men have souls, and imbue their sperm with souls, and the soul is passed on to the zygote when the egg is fertilized, assuming the zygote is male, else the soul is deleted from the universe. Seems as plausible as any other religious theory. Which is to say, not very. Or maybe the Hindus are the correct religion, and we're all just recycled souls, no beginning and no end; we die and the soul appears in a cat or an assassin bug, like magic, or a miracle.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
No more jerking off, gentlemen.Life is precious.
Bongulator said:
So, we all in agreement now? Sperm are living, they are alive, so life begins in a man's nutsack. The very Greek root words that make up the word 'spermatozoan' mean 'living semen'. So, that's where life begins.
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Hayduke

Hayduke

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Careful ... yer treading on thin ice there ... :bigjoint:

Vi
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Yeah, you are right, although I was almost a Grandpa last year! My son and his girlfriend decided at 17 (him) and 18 (she's a rapist!), after trying to live together that the baby would be screwed, cuz they were too young. She exercised her right about the time I wrapped my head around being a grandpa at 37. I was a little bummed, but it was for the best. He is still in school, they are still together.
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
I brought up a similar argument on another thread and boy were those guys offended.

I agree though. A sperm is half a baby. When men masturbate they are aborting thousands of potential humans.

I would also bet money that these men that are so against abortion are also the kind that refuse to wear a condom, or they "forget" the condom.
Scream about abortion while taking no responsiblity for prevention.




Bongulator said:
So, we all in agreement now? Sperm are living, they are alive, so life begins in a man's nutsack. The very Greek root words that make up the word 'spermatozoan' mean 'living semen'. So, that's where life begins. Eggs too, I guess, although only sperm have the full set of chromosomes, both X and Y, unlike eggs, so I'd give the little tadpoles the nod because of that.

When a 'soul' begins, that's a different issue. I can't comment on that one since that has nothing to do with science. But life, that's a scientific concept, and clearly sperm are alive, so that's where life begins. Maybe only men have souls, and imbue their sperm with souls, and the soul is passed on to the zygote when the egg is fertilized. Seems as plausible as any other religious theory. Which is to say, not very.
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B

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
I kind of look at the whole issue as being a series of control points. Men have the ultimate control, because we control the sperm, the 'source' control point. If we are responsible with our sperm, then it need never get to the point where abortion is even necessary. However, once men act irresponsibly with their sperm, then control passes to the woman, and she gets to call the shots until a child is born, if she elects to go that far. At that point, when there's an actual child, it's a shared responsibility, no turning back for anyone.

So I see no reason to change a thing. I'm a man. As such, I have complete power over the 'source' control point, my sperm. If I abuse that power and let my little ones run wild, then I no longer deserve to have any say about what happens next. The control point has moved from *my* body into someone else's. And I'm not gonna start trying to control anyone else's body, because, well, I don't want anyone else controlling mine.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
So let's see ... hmmm ... If a male cannabis plant flowers and spews pollen all over the ground, does it grow into smokeable buds?

Vi
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
What the hell does that have to do with anything? If you grow a male plant and it pollinates my female plant, then I get to control what happens to the seeds. :fire:

ViRedd said:
So let's see ... hmmm ... If a male cannabis plant flowers and spews pollen all over the ground, does it grow into smokeable buds?

Vi
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Bongulator, are you like the most intelligent man on earth? That is the best argument I've heard yet. OMG Bongulator for fucking president :!::!::!:



Bongulator said:
I kind of look at the whole issue as being a series of control points. Men have the ultimate control, because we control the sperm, the 'source' control point. If we are responsible with our sperm, then it need never get to the point where abortion is even necessary. However, once men act irresponsibly with their sperm, then control passes to the woman, and she gets to call the shots until a child is born, if she elects to go that far. At that point, when there's an actual child, it's a shared responsibility, no turning back for anyone.

So I see no reason to change a thing. I'm a man. As such, I have complete power over the 'source' control point, my sperm. If I abuse that power and let my little ones run wild, then I no longer deserve to have any say about what happens next. The control point has moved from *my* body into someone else's. And I'm not gonna start trying to control anyone else's body, because, well, I don't want anyone else controlling mine.
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Big P

Big P

Well-Known Member
yes but once the female accepts your sperm, its like a joint venture. you are providing her with the starting capitol to begin manufacturing

if she decides to stop manufactuing due to her own female inadiqacies then there should be some recoarse to recoop some of your losses since she entered into the agreement,

now if you just gave her the capitol with no strings attached then pretty much she can do what she pleases.

but what if you give her a puppy for free, can she do what she pleases with it?

no cuz the puppy has rights she cant just take a hammer and bust its brains out cuz its been "bothering her" with all the cute licking and barking

should they make abortion somthing that is discouraged? yes

should they punish people that have and above average number of abortions? yes in some way

because you are killing babies that have rights.

Democrates are kind of selfish, they want all the rights to themselves but non for the weakest with no votes.

there should be a limit, once the babay is developed there should be a cut off point. unless the womans life is in danger

if you are a woman and not responsible enough to get the abortion before the baby can scream then you deserve to not have that "choice" as it is not a "right" to kill humans once they are developed enough to fairly say they are human
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
Big P, maybe if men had better control over where they are leaving their sperm it might not be such a problem. The male gender is free to impregnant and walk away, they've been doing it for thousands of years.

If you don't want your baby aborted then double up on the condoms. If you have unprotected sex and get a women pregnant then it's up ot her to abort if she choose.

There is also a male birth control pill. Maybe all men should be REQUIRED to take that pill. How many of you anti-abortion men are willing to cough up the cash for your own birth control pill? None? Yeah right, that's just what I thought.

As a women it is on me to make sure I don't get pregnant. If I do then it's up to me to deal with it as I choose. Possession is 9/10's of the law. If it's in my body then it belongs to me, period and end.
 
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