The View From the Left

whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
The VA system was shitty before they went in. Throughout history people have come out of the military all fucked up. On the otherhand a lot of people see some fucked up shit and come out just fine. Some of them come out and become cops and willingly kill civilians in the streets. To try to defend the military and say they would NEVER fire upon their own people is bullshit. To play the victim to try to get people to agree with you is even more bullshit.
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Your own words call him cracked. May be some of his own doing. Fact is no one can really fathom how it really is.

Everyone has the choice of joining. Some of really didn't have that choice Various reasons. Only job in town or maybe a family legacy to live up to. I know its sounds fucked up but it is what it is.

Now you can either choose to poke the man for something he can not control or call out the logical fallacies.


Furthermore Olive Drab has never struck me the type to be the victim.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I sincerely hope so. Really, I do because y'all are the last line if order in our democracy.

After Kent State, Katrina and other such incidents you must forgive those of us who have never served for being skeptical of the military. Many of those who leave the military and become police officers are also giving the military a bad name, deserved or not.

Again, perception drives motivation more than facts. It's up to all of us to make sure that what people are perceiving square with the reality of the situation.
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Its hard to explain and hard to understand.

First realize that there is a huge difference in a guardsman and active duty. Clearly there are foreseeable circumstances for marshal law and such. That falls more on the Guard.

Besides basic guard and active are trained slightly different.

I can assure you that we clearly understand what legal and illegal orders are and have discretion in that matter.

I would wager that the better cops on a force are vets. An army veteran will have better trigger control and probably make better decisions under fire.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
People of that generation joined the military to kick some ass. They were brave and believed in something. They knew exactly what they were getting into and went into it head first. They didn't come home crying. They came home proud.
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What the fuck ever. You ever volunteer at a long term VA care center. Plenty of people of that era came home fucked up.
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Returned Solders are in the main set for life (at least in Australia).

Granddad came back from WW1 (he was a Light Horsemen- Machine gun regiment for anyone interested) was given land and a pension. When he died his wife was granted the war widows pension. He suffered badly from PTSD (not that the term existed back then). He spent the majority of his time silent, withdawn and in his garage for the remainder of his life. Opposed to war and any glorifying of war (including memorial marches).

My farther came back from Vietnam with a nice pension for life. Approx $1300 per fortnight. He cannot get close to people, even his family are either kept at arms length or ignored and ostracized completely

A bloak i see occasionally did two stints and got out recently. Didnt see much action/if any and retired from the Army with a tax free pension that is not income tested. (he can earn $1m a year and still receive his tax free pension, i think thats round $800 a fortnight). Not effected at all by PTSD.

So they do get rewarded for doing their job. They are well paid (above award) whilst in the role and looked after at least financially when they leave. Fkd up but financially stable. In lots of ways the modern battles are easier on men than those who "went over the top" for years on end. (no disrespect for those modern solders intended or emplyed)
 
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Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
When I first enlisted, PTSD was looked at as malingering. It was mid-enlistment that things began to soften. But most guys in my platoon looked at you like, if you were going to the TMC for PTSD, you were just a shitbag. Probably why some guys eventually snap, because they keep pushing themselves, because fuck failure.

Like I said, I truly did not understand what I was getting myself into. And despite that, I would do it again, because I may have suffered plenty, but I gained insight you can't find anywhere else, and for that, I am grateful. My biggest regret is the guys we lost and the pain we caused in our madness and confusion we didn't even recognize past the fog of war. I regret that we hurt people, and that people were hurt.

You expect war to have some sense of honor, I guess. It's a lot more dirty than that.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
What I struggle with most is the nightmares, the hypervigilance and inability to disengage when feeling attacked, and especially that numbness. Your affect becomes so limited that you only have 3 emotions: rage, despair, or apathy. It became so difficult to feel anyone around me, it drove me completely insane. I used to be a very empathetic person, and I am beginning to get it back. I'd describe it like having your soul encased in glass. Nothing gets through, but you can see the consequences of your actions and how it impacts the world and your relationships with people, and you can't do anything to prevent ruining yourself. For fuck's sake, I have utilized (de)escalation of force protocol with my girlfriend. Like, who the fuck wants to do shit like that to people they love?

I think that's what leads vets to drugs. To legitimately and literally feel something different than apathy or fury.
 
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Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
What I struggle with most is the nightmares, the hypervigilance and inability to disengage when feeling attacked, and especially that numbness. Your affect becomes so limited that you only have 3 emotions: rage, despair, or apathy. It became so difficult to feel anyone around me, it drove me completely insane. I used to be a very empathetic person, and I am beginning to get it back. I'd describe it like having your soul encased in glass. Nothing gets through, but you can see the consequences of your actions and how it impacts the world and your relationships with people, and you can't do anything to prevent ruining yourself. For fuck's sake, I have utilized (de)escalation of force protocol with my girlfriend. Like, who the fuck wants to do shit like that to people they love?

I think that's what leads vets to drugs. To legitimately and literally feel something different than apathy or fury.
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Sounds like there's some overlap between PTSD and clinical depression.
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
What I struggle with most is the nightmares, the hypervigilance and inability to disengage when feeling attacked, and especially that numbness. Your affect becomes so limited that you only have 3 emotions: rage, despair, or apathy. It became so difficult to feel anyone around me, it drove me completely insane. I used to be a very empathetic person, and I am beginning to get it back. I'd describe it like having your soul encased in glass. Nothing gets through, but you can see the consequences of your actions and how it impacts the world and your relationships with people, and you can't do anything to prevent ruining yourself. For fuck's sake, I have utilized (de)escalation of force protocol with my girlfriend. Like, who the fuck wants to do shit like that to people they love?

I think that's what leads vets to drugs. To legitimately and literally feel something different than apathy or fury.
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Well put, the absence of feeling anything was what I sought for a long time.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Your own words call him cracked. May be some of his own doing. Fact is no one can really fathom how it really is.

Everyone has the choice of joining. Some of really didn't have that choice Various reasons. Only job in town or maybe a family legacy to live up to. I know its sounds fucked up but it is what it is.

Now you can either choose to poke the man for something he can not control or call out the logical fallacies.


Furthermore Olive Drab has never struck me the type to be the victim.
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No, not everyone. They refused me when I volunteered. Poor eyesight.

I think that's the last time anyone ever accused me of a lack of vision, lol
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
What the fuck ever. You ever volunteer at a long term VA care center. Plenty of people of that era came home fucked up.
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Shit, brother- don't get me started on the fucking VA; the big appointment rigging scandal was blown wide open right here in my home town!

They need better financial support to take care of those who would defend us. That the Republican party is still supported by veterans even after they continue to starve the VA for funding is absolutely beyond me.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
No, not everyone. They refused me when I volunteered. Poor eyesight.

I think that's the last time anyone ever accused me of a lack of vision, lol
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Everyone that joined had a choice. That wording works better.



Another part of the article I took problem with. The silent weapon Raytheon is working on. I worked around equipment that would cook your insides in seconds. I thought about the possibility of making it smaller and more portable.

Its possible to make serious money from weapons. I just don't think I want that on my conscience. Horrible weapon for sure.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Everyone that joined had a choice. That wording works better.



Another part of the article I took problem with. The silent weapon Raytheon is working on. I worked around equipment that would cook your insides in seconds. I thought about the possibility of making it smaller and more portable.

Its possible to make serious money from weapons. I just don't think I want that on my conscience. Horrible weapon for sure.
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The War Profiteers are still making money hand over fist in this country. Whenever profits dip, they just bribe a few congressmen to find an excuse to start another one.
 
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