Are you guys interested in Citizen Cobs???

visajoe1

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
clap your hands if you have any business experience. anyone. :clap:

wietfreitas has no idea what he's talking about, and im not sure nogod is on the right track either. guys, comparing what it takes to building a DIY setup on your own for one person, doesnt compare to wholesale operations with larger amounts of labor, inventory, shipping, payment, damage, taxes!, etc costs and fees. So, although the input is welcomed, its not exactly accurate from what I'm seeing.

This light engine, is a specialty item. Some people cant do it, or just dont want to build them. Thats fine, we all make choices. So, there is a value to the product. Like the computer you bought to type the misguided post. You could've built it for cheaper, and maybe you did, but its more likely you bought retail/online like most everyone else.

$45 is a great price for an engine, and if you dont agree, just vote with your dollars and dont buy it.
 
shines_like_gold

shines_like_gold

Member
grouch said:
Does Citizen know the market you intend to sell to? Last I heard they don't want their leds being used for growing marijuana
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So what would happen, if they found out that theres companys who use it for exact that reason ? Can they force them not to use citizen anymore ?
 
qballizhere

qballizhere

Well-Known Member
greenballs said:
hi.
do citi really care tho. as long as people are buying and no1 getting hurt. wat diff does it make wat the end use is.
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YES they do. I know a few people that have had canceled orders and refuse to sell to them because they grow or known growers. I had ordered 48 1818 and 20 drivers and the sales rep made a mistake on the model ordered A drivers and not D2 I told them I will refuse to pay for that mistake was passed up to the mgr and didnt realize I knew him and he knew I was a grower.

EDIT: To this day I still cant order anything from cdi and they are in DENVER
 
DankaDank

DankaDank

Well-Known Member
qballizhere said:
YES they do. I know a few people that have had canceled orders and refuse to sell to them because they grow or known growers. I had ordered 48 1818 and 20 drivers and the sales rep made a mistake on the model ordered A drivers and not D2 I told them I will refuse to pay for that mistake was passed up to the mgr and didnt realize I knew him and he knew I was a grower.

EDIT: To this day I still cant order anything from cdi and they are in DENVER
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Must be some kind of Japanese pride, over profit.
 
qballizhere

qballizhere

Well-Known Member
shines_like_gold said:
but how comes that @CobKits is still up n running ? hes obviously grow-connected
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Hes not buying from cdi he is buying from citizen and I could also if i wanted to buy 300 cobs at once. Yes the company doesnt like to sell to growers but the sales rep for the eastern coast doesnt care I wasnt about to buy 300 cobs 48 for me and try to get rid of the rest.
 
Johnnycannaseed1

Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
greenballs said:
hi.
do citi really care tho. as long as people are buying and no1 getting hurt. wat diff does it make wat the end use is.
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Citi care, right down to the strategic differences in regional pricing and which regions certain chips are available in or not.

MJ is a big no no in Japan, so for a major company like Citi to be associated with such, this could potentially damage their reputation and clean hands status!
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Do you have the slightest clue the amount of labor it takes to go from parts to light engine?

Sticking a sticker on a piece of metal and turning 4 screws.

We're not talking about a prefab with hours of R&D or a warehouse full of skilled technicians. We're talking about a flunky with 10 fingers and a screwdriver.

I know you're new so I'll chalk it up to the 3 week old dew behind your ears but please educate yourself or pipe down.

Dude asked for links. He got em. I asked a legitimate question. Because if shipping isn't included youre paying some flunky $14/engine to stick a sticker on a piece of metal and turn 4 screws.

visajoe1 said:
clap your hands if you have any business experience. anyone. :clap:

wietfreitas has no idea what he's talking about, and im not sure nogod is on the right track either. guys, comparing what it takes to building a DIY setup on your own for one person, doesnt compare to wholesale operations with larger amounts of labor, inventory, shipping, payment, damage, taxes!, etc costs and fees. So, although the input is welcomed, its not exactly accurate from what I'm seeing.

This light engine, is a specialty item. Some people cant do it, or just dont want to build them. Thats fine, we all make choices. So, there is a value to the product. Like the computer you bought to type the misguided post. You could've built it for cheaper, and maybe you did, but its more likely you bought retail/online like most everyone else.

$45 is a great price for an engine, and if you dont agree, just vote with your dollars and dont buy it.
Click to expand...
 
Johnnycannaseed1

Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:
Do you have the slightest clue the amount of labor it takes to go from parts to light engine?

Sticking a sticker on a piece of metal and turning 4 screws.

We're not talking about a prefab with hours of R&D or a warehouse full of skilled technicians. We're talking about a flunky with 10 fingers and a screwdriver.

I know you're new so I'll chalk it up to the 3 week old dew behind your ears but please educate yourself or pipe down.

Dude asked for links. He got em. I asked a legitimate question. Because if shipping isn't included youre paying some flunky $14/engine to stick a sticker on a piece of metal and turn 4 screws.
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Riiight and how do the parts get into the flunky's hands, then get processed and fly out of the flunky's hands...

I suppose in your reality this just magically happens no time/cost involved...

I know you can be a bit clueless at times but I will just chalk it up to you have never run a business before, which kinda puts it back to what visajoe original said!
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Don't really understand your beef, but I also had no idea you existed until about 10 minutes ago so no matter.

You're right, we should explore this further. Where was I? Oh yeah...

So some parasite with an mba hires a flunky for $11/hr to stick a bunch of stickers to a bunch of pieces of metal and turn a bunch of screws. Maybe he rents a shop and pays taxes? Maybe he runs it out of his garage?

My point is the same...

The difference between "diy" and "light engine" is about 5 minutes and zero know-how so I don't really get why you'd bother paying $14/engine. You still have to wire it, hang it, etc so you're really not saving any time/labor.

Johnnycannaseed1 said:
Riiight and how do the parts get into the flunky's hands, then get processed and fly out of the flunky's hands...

I suppose in your reality this just magically happens no time/cost involved...

I know you can be a bit clueless at times but I will just chalk it up to you have never run a business before, which kinda puts it back to what visajoe original said!
Click to expand...
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:
Do you have the slightest clue the amount of labor it takes to go from parts to light engine?

Sticking a sticker on a piece of metal and turning 4 screws.

We're not talking about a prefab with hours of R&D or a warehouse full of skilled technicians. We're talking about a flunky with 10 fingers and a screwdriver.

I know you're new so I'll chalk it up to the 3 week old dew behind your ears but please educate yourself or pipe down.

Dude asked for links. He got em. I asked a legitimate question. Because if shipping isn't included youre paying some flunky $14/engine to stick a sticker on a piece of metal and turn 4 screws.
Click to expand...
theres a little more to it than that. i dont want to hijack the thread but for a simple light engine like the cxm22s on pinfins, where i make a whopping $4-$5 each over selling the parts separately:

cut 2-conductor wire to length
strip both sides to proper length
mount chip on heatsink
mount wire through hole with grommet, connect to holder, route wire through pins. needs to be strong enough to swing the assembly around by the cable (not recommended!)
test on bench at both low current (to verify all dies light up) and at high current to verify its its within range for brightness and forward voltage

those are the "easy" ones. for a custom one like the 1825s on iceleds, add the following steps::
tap out holes on face of heatsink
solder wire to heatsink
modify reflector adapter with a dremel in at least 3 dimensions to fit the 1825s
carefully mount soldered chip via strian relief and grommets
test fan in addition to cob itself
supply mounting hardware

obviously i charge more for the ones that have all the custom work. i can bust em out in a few hours when making 8-10 at a time, but if you were doing it for the first time, it would take hours to build the first one and you wouldnt be happy with the first revision (assuming you dont destroy any chips in the soldering process, which isnt for everybody)
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
OP's parts list does not mention hanging hardware of any kind. Also does not mention testing each and every cob, but kudos to you for going the extra mile.

Sorry but I can't see this taking more than an hour for 4 engines even for a complete novice. There is no soldering involved. You are sticking the graphite pad to the heatsinks or cob, screwing down the holder, attaching the reflector, and stripping the wire and running it through the heatsink.

CobKits said:
theres a little more to it than that. i dont want to hijack the thread but for a simple light engine like the cxm22s on pinfins, where i make a whopping $4-$5 each over selling the parts separately:

cut 2-conductor wire to length
strip both sides to proper length
mount chip on heatsink
mount wire through hole with grommet, connect to holder, route wire through pins. needs to be strong enough to swing the assembly around by the cable (not recommended!)
test on bench at both low current (to verify all dies light up) and at high current to verify its its within range for brightness and forward voltage

those are the "easy" ones. for a custom one like the 1825s on iceleds, add the following steps::
tap out holes on face of heatsink
solder wire to heatsink
modify reflector adapter with a dremel in at least 3 dimensions to fit the 1825s
carefully mount soldered chip via strian relief and grommets
test fan in addition to cob itself
supply mounting hardware

obviously i charge more for the ones that have all the custom work. i can bust em out in a few hours when making 8-10 at a time, but if you were doing it for the first time, it would take hours to build the first one and you wouldnt be happy with the first revision (assuming you dont destroy any chips in the soldering process, which isnt for everybody)
Click to expand...
 
DarthPlagueis

DarthPlagueis

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:
Don't really understand your beef, but I also had no idea you existed until about 10 minutes ago so no matter.

You're right, we should explore this further. Where was I? Oh yeah...

So some parasite with an mba hires a flunky for $11/hr to stick a bunch of stickers to a bunch of pieces of metal and turn a bunch of screws. Maybe he rents a shop and pays taxes? Maybe he runs it out of his garage?

My point is the same...

The difference between "diy" and "light engine" is about 5 minutes and zero know-how so I don't really get why you'd bother paying $14/engine. You still have to wire it, hang it, etc so you're really not saving any time/labor.
Click to expand...
Who cares how long someone has been registered on this site? You think your hot stuff because you down talk to others on a grow forum dude? Grow up, it's clear to most you have NO IDEA what it takes to get stuff overseas, paying customs, shipping, dealing with vendors and managers for every company. That's hours of time, which my time isn't worthless ok? I make money, enough to spend 5-10k on lights that I won't even need... I wont even get rid of them for perhaps months, maybe even years...

You think a Lexus es350 is any harder to make than a corolla? No, it isn't, same frame, same engine, different setup, that's it. Does that warrant double the costs? Some say no, others buy the lexus. This is how capitalism and free trade works and if you need a lesson in that, then it's beyond obvious you have never made a dollar for yourself, rather relying on others
 
KarmaPaymentPlan

KarmaPaymentPlan

Well-Known Member
DarthPlagueis said:
Who cares how long someone has been registered on this site? You think your hot stuff because you down talk to others on a grow forum dude? Grow up, it's clear to most you have NO IDEA what it takes to get stuff overseas, paying customs, shipping, dealing with vendors and managers for every company. That's hours of time, which my time isn't worthless ok? I make money, enough to spend 5-10k on lights that I won't even need... I wont even get rid of them for perhaps months, maybe even years...

You think a Lexus es350 is any harder to make than a corolla? No, it isn't, same frame, same engine, different setup, that's it. Does that warrant double the costs? Some say no, others buy the lexus. This is how capitalism and free trade works and if you need a lesson in that, then it's beyond obvious you have never made a dollar for yourself, rather relying on others
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i get your enthusiastic but honestly your asking people if theyll buy your shit for more money then what we already have available. yes competition is good but you got to be realistic and on top of all this ive seen other people offering a lot more (like new ideas or services, not just they same shit)and the threads get closed because they dont pay for advertisement
 
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