SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[Wisher2]

can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res

Makes no sense to me
you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
oxygen will come from the top when the top of the media dries

I dont get the extra gadgets that have only anecdotally done anything with no proof

Just Wondering

I have been using this method of growing container tomatoes for about 10 years and have never heard of anyone using air stones in the res

@PDX Joe

when top dressing....are you going to be watering in from the top

I have always had much better success building my grow media and allowing it to cook for a while before I use it...kinda like a weaker version of super soil....with all the goodies and micro life living and working at full tilt before dropping my plants in....another thing that helps is actual worms in the media replicating nature

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

i add air stones as I do not want the standing water to turn anaerobic... i am a noob to SIPs though so maybe just being paranoid... sounds like you have some experience with them and they are unnecessary? mine are not really that big of a deal just two little air stones i move between 5 SIPs every few days.

 

[Jp.the.pope]

can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res

Makes no sense to me
you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
oxygen will come from the top when the top of the media dries

I dont get the extra gadgets that have only anecdotally done anything with no proof

Just Wondering

I have been using this method of growing container tomatoes for about 10 years and have never heard of anyone using air stones in the res

@PDX Joe

when top dressing....are you going to be watering in from the top

I have always had much better success building my grow media and allowing it to cook for a while before I use it...kinda like a weaker version of super soil....with all the goodies and micro life living and working at full tilt before dropping my plants in....another thing that helps is actual worms in the media replicating nature

I added then for the same reason as @meangreengrowinmachine

Just worried about it going anaerobic. My SIPs also have a 10 gal res, so I was worried about the amount of time between fillings.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Bugeye]

 

[Tim Fox]

SiP noob here, looking for some advice.

I've been trying to run SiP in my nursery "seedling" phase with pretty poor results.

The following stages are close to dialed except the nursery:

-- Room 1: bubble cloner > nursery SiP > veg ebb&flow, then into >>>
-- Room 2: bloom drip dtw

So out of the bubbler I have excellent roots established and 2-4 healthy nodes, then into 1/2gal coco pots for the SiP. I add extra holes to the pots to help the coco to wick up.

Very basic SiP: pots in planter trays under T5HO, watering at pH 5.8 / 0.5-0.7EC consisting of Hydroguard, kelp and fulvic and rooting stimulator such as Rapid Start.

Room 74F / 60-65%RH.

Nursery stage is typically 2 weeks before I can pot up for veg.

Problems are pretty drastic: no new growth, poor root development, significant leaf paling, all within 4-7 days. When I remove from SiP and flush with plain water they bounce back.

I'm convinced the problem is in the root zone as those originally healthy roots take a turn for the worst.

The tray of water never looks too great either and sometimes gathers a slimy film on top. Obvious pathogen or algae or unwanted bacteria. Due to the setup its impractical to cover the SiP from light etc, and I am currently considering scrapping it altogether and running a small E&F or perhaps more bubblers (not ideal as its up on a shelf).

I would like to persevere with SiP if I can get it right. @Wisher2 originally showed me the way but I've never gotten get his results.

Can't show pics here right now, but what any thoughts from you guys? Is it cover or die? Do you add airstones?

how can you have the 1 " air gap if your containers are sitting in a tray of water?,, i bet thats the issue

 

[Tim Fox]

I guess I really don't get the point of SIPS with all these mixed nutes.. for me the goal is making this less work.

i am not sure they are talking about the same thing we are doing, Sips really are not hydroponics, just bottom watered soil containers, filling a try with water and allowing a container to soak it up, and then letting it dry out about half way before adding more water/nutes is by defanition a flood drain table

 

[PDX Joe]

can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res

Makes no sense to me
you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
oxygen will come from the top when the top of the media dries

I dont get the extra gadgets that have only anecdotally done anything with no proof

Just Wondering

I have been using this method of growing container tomatoes for about 10 years and have never heard of anyone using air stones in the res

@PDX Joe

when top dressing....are you going to be watering in from the top

I have always had much better success building my grow media and allowing it to cook for a while before I use it...kinda like a weaker version of super soil....with all the goodies and micro life living and working at full tilt before dropping my plants in....another thing that helps is actual worms in the media replicating nature

You're right, I have grown exclusively outdoors using SIPs for about a decade for my veggies and haven't used airstones and they have worked great. But, I recently set up an indoor grow room and had some airstones... so I figured I'd go ahead and use them. Mainly I want the airstones to bubble off chlorine of my tap water before it comes in contact with any micro life. I do use a plastic mulch cover on the top of the SIPs to keep the top of the soil moist. Mycelium supposedly like the top compost zone to be somewhat anaerobic. So, the idea is to provide some extra oxygen to the roots from the res. rather than at the top of the pot.

I can imagine cooking the soil is a great way to go in order to get a nice rich mix. But, I simply top dress and it has worked well for me and I like the idea by top dressing it may avoid making the grow medium too dense/ heavy, which may reduce the wicking and cause the grow medium to be a bit too wet. I am thinking about setting up the pots with the soil and top dress ahead of time to get the "soil web" going before the transplant.

When you cook your soil do you water it in a bit to provide moisture and get all the micro life going?

 

[Tim Fox]

My new Sip @meangreengrowinmachine @Humanrob
some unboxing pics and some side by side pics with the grow box next to the earthbox,,
I like the front fill point on the brow box instead of a fil tube,, plus i no longer have to worry about over filling and run off as i can see the water level, i can also see the water roots
the earthbox has a 2.5 gallon res,, closer to 2 really,, and the new grow box has a 4-5 gallon res,, its going to be so much nicer to have the bigger res capacity

 

[Tim Fox]

I added then for the same reason as @meangreengrowinmachine

Just worried about it going anaerobic. My SIPs also have a 10 gal res, so I was worried about the amount of time between fillings.

What are your thoughts?

here is a sip with a 10 gallon res,, and another with a 15 or 18 gallon res

credit to hyroot and someguy

 

[Wisher2]

i am not sure they are talking about the same thing we are doing, Sips really are not hydroponics, just bottom watered soil containers, filling a try with water and allowing a container to soak it up, and then letting it dry out about half way before adding more water/nutes is by defanition a flood drain table

flood no drain

very definition of a sub irrigated planter

plant sits in a media placed in a container which is placed in another container and irrigated from the bottom

things like perlite or coco or hydroton can be used and the media will wick up the water


in the planter you are using the same concept apply's
you could use your planter and fill with coco and fill the res with nutes and get great results

I started building self watering containers way before "Sips" ever came out

I use organic soil and tap water

works the same as my hydroponic setup

 

[Tim Fox]

flood no drain

very definition of a sub irrigated planter

plant sits in a media placed in a container which is placed in another container and irrigated from the bottom

things like perlite or coco or hydroton can be used and the media will wick up the water


in the planter you are using the same concept apply's
you could use your planter and fill with coco and fill the res with nutes and get great results

I started building self watering containers way before "Sips" ever came out

I use organic soil and tap water

works the same as my hydroponic setup

ok

 

[Wisher2]

here is a sip with a 10 gallon res,, and another with a 15 or 18 gallon res

credit to hyroot and someguy

that looks like a passive hydro system to me

 

[Tim Fox]

that looks like a passive hydro system to me

they are Octopot clones
http://www.octopot.com/

 

[Wisher2]

You're right, I have grown exclusively outdoors using SIPs for about a decade for my veggies and haven't used airstones and they have worked great. But, I recently set up an indoor grow room and had some airstones... so I figured I'd go ahead and use them. Mainly I want the airstones to bubble off chlorine of my tap water before it comes in contact with any micro life. I do use a plastic mulch cover on the top of the SIPs to keep the top of the soil moist. Mycelium supposedly like the top compost zone to be somewhat anaerobic. So, the idea is to provide some extra oxygen to the roots from the res. rather than at the top of the pot.

I can imagine cooking the soil is a great way to go in order to get a nice rich mix. But, I simply top dress and it has worked well for me and I like the idea by top dressing it may avoid making the grow medium too dense/ heavy, which may reduce the wicking and cause the grow medium to be a bit too wet. I am thinking about setting up the pots with the soil and top dress ahead of time to get the "soil web" going before the transplant.

When you cook your soil do you water it in a bit to provide moisture and get all the micro life going?

I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks

when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
I then mix the soil up and place in the container
fill the hole with more micro life inoculant plant and water with ewc tea
I then fill the res with Tap and that is it

I use the super oldschool homemade sips with 2 containers or 2 buckets with the drain hole in the side

I fill the basin about every 2-3 days just to move the water a little

 

[Tim Fox]

I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks

when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
I then mix the soil up and place in the container
fill the hole with more micro life inoculant plant and water with ewc tea
I then fill the res with Tap and that is it

I use the super oldschool homemade sips with 2 containers or 2 buckets with the drain hole in the side

I fill the basin about every 2-3 days just to move the water a little

no school like the old school,, those 5 gallon bucket sips are so easy to build,,

So if i ran coco and put nutes in my res ,, would it be more like a hempy bucket in nature?

 

[PDX Joe]

I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks

when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
I then mix the soil up and place in the container
fill the hole with more micro life inoculant plant and water with ewc tea
I then fill the res with Tap and that is it

I use the super oldschool homemade sips with 2 containers or 2 buckets with the drain hole in the side

I fill the basin about every 2-3 days just to move the water a little

Actually, I saw the Grokashi guy sets his Earthboxes up a week or two early and lets them sit before he plants in them. Okay, I'm going to try the early setup and see how it goes.

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

Actually, I saw the Grokashi guy sets his Earthboxes up a week or two early and lets them sit before he plants in them. Okay, I'm going to try the early setup and see how it goes.

I will be using my giant 27 gallon sip for just cooking soil i think.. Or i might move it outside it weighs so much lol

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

here are some pics of my 14 gallon inntainers

 

[Wisher2]

no school like the old school,, those 5 gallon bucket sips are so easy to build,,

So if i ran coco and put nutes in my res ,, would it be more like a hempy bucket in nature?

yeah that is pretty much exactly what it becomes

 

[Tim Fox]

yeah that is pretty much exactly what it becomes

alright, i get it ,, hum,, what I hated about doing hempy buckets was having to soak up the runnoff with a turkey baster,, long story but it sucked eggs!!,,, but the thought of hempy / Sip that i dont have to do that with?,,
are you saying a sip running Nutes in the res instead of the soil would outperform a nutes in the soil sip?,,, welcome the insights