I'm currently growing 2 autoflowers and one looks like I may need to start flushing it. I've read all of the info online, but I'm still a tad bit confused. Do I wait to flush until I see that the buds are showing predominantly orange/brown hairs AND when the trichomes have become milky? I was hoping to get some insight from pros.
Question about harvesting
- Thread starter Sgrey
- Start date
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
your nutrients should be tapered towards the end of your flowering cycle, just like the directions say. If growing organically just keep feeding water and stop teas and scoops when you see trichs cloudy. I never regretted waiting a couple weeks more either so no worries. snip a small bud a nd dry while waiting, maybe you'll chop it sooner than you think, or much later too even
Doing so will result in a plant that has been properly flushed of excess nutrient, and allowed to burn up some of its stores.
flushing is for toilets.
I harvest when all trichomes are solid creamy white and some are beginning to amber.
This always falls within the timeline breeders have provided me.
Doing so will result in a plant that has been properly flushed of excess nutrient, and allowed to burn up some of its stores.
flushing is for toilets.
I harvest when all trichomes are solid creamy white and some are beginning to amber.
This always falls within the timeline breeders have provided me.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Yeah right! "falls into the timeline breeders have provided".
I'm sorry chemmy, I don't buy that! I have only on rare occasions had any strain not go at least a week longer then "reported"... More like an average of 10 days to 2 weeks...
Next thing is any flush or Taper. Is basically a myth as for providing any real reduction in nutrient content of plant matter that we grow to smoke...
I know you've read this before - Now read it again!
I got asked about this in a PM by a member after seeing the disaster another thread became. He asked where to find books and papers on "flushing" and said he might try the "fade".
Here's my answer to him......I felt it needs to be seen,,,,,,again!
Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)
Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......
Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)
With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds,but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...
Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!
I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.
Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...
The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!
There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)
There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.
Read this too!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/
Now you learned some new things @Sgrey
BTW, you started bloom nutes too soon! The high P value bloom nutes made your plant yellow out like that!
For auto's, less is more. Even in photo plants - Don't start bloom nutes for 2 weeks after the light change.....I would even mix veg and bloom 50/50 for the 3 rd week - Then go 100% bloom nutes.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
@Dr. Who ,
now for sure harvest time is so way subjective. I happen to love all of the strains I cycle when harvested within the breeder recs. You dont? ok, cool. I do though. Have I ever let a strain go longer? of course I have. Did I notice some mature even faster than rec'd? of course. But I always love them when they are due in. Could be I'm the only one with that experience? doubt it. Why, becaue its subjective. if one harvests in that timeline and like it, every time, like it mucho, then guess what?
science is cool thank you for the reposts.
but check this out(again)
if I dont follow the instructions given on every bottled nutrient in hydro, the ones that say taper nutrients near finish, my meds taste and burn like shit when I am done drying them, unless of course I "cure" them for long periods lol
If I pour ferts on my outdoor tomatoes the days before I pick some I can taste the off taste.
If I feed my tilapia the day of harvest I can taste their off taste too. But when I move them to water for a day I cannot. flushing at its best in the animal world. I do the same with my rabbits and doves. I feed them sweet carrots before harvest, not free ranged as the rest of their life. (cept pigeons(they get beheaded the day they stick their head out of the nest.
If I put rabbit shit into my buckets of dirt a couple weeks before they're harvested...guess what again? more off taste.
easy for me to conclude that tapering the nutrient supply- mimicking exactly as nature does it, with diminishing poop, insect frass, fungi, light etc, all diminishing as my fruits and veggies finish. exactly)
I taste off tastes on my grapes and berries too when I feed them close to harvest.
so call it flushing? no , not me. but the nutrient supply at finish is purposely less than at start, seems like an easy grasp to me, like it comes natural, for top flavor and experience. two or three weeks after drying my meds are awesome my way.
if I feed them nutrients in dirt after their mark they need a good tobacco curing, I totally get it man Bigger leaves, heavier harvest, more cash, let it dry longer to get rid of the off tastes. tobacco 101.
funny thing is, pk boosters and such in flower make more leaves, not more trichomes, rendering the weed less potent by weight comparably. Heavier harvests here come from careful training and proper care in veg first.
to each her own for sure. I like my peaches harder, picked early even but my wife wants them degraded to mush. I want pears softer she likes them harder. you like longer curing, more fertilizer, I dont. Believe me I have nothing to prove or sell, no books no manuscripts, nothing, and if feeding them more in flower and curing them longer tasted better to me and mine, and was preferred by my patients I for sure be doing it.
now for sure harvest time is so way subjective. I happen to love all of the strains I cycle when harvested within the breeder recs. You dont? ok, cool. I do though. Have I ever let a strain go longer? of course I have. Did I notice some mature even faster than rec'd? of course. But I always love them when they are due in. Could be I'm the only one with that experience? doubt it. Why, becaue its subjective. if one harvests in that timeline and like it, every time, like it mucho, then guess what?
science is cool thank you for the reposts.
but check this out(again)
if I dont follow the instructions given on every bottled nutrient in hydro, the ones that say taper nutrients near finish, my meds taste and burn like shit when I am done drying them, unless of course I "cure" them for long periods lol
If I pour ferts on my outdoor tomatoes the days before I pick some I can taste the off taste.
If I feed my tilapia the day of harvest I can taste their off taste too. But when I move them to water for a day I cannot. flushing at its best in the animal world. I do the same with my rabbits and doves. I feed them sweet carrots before harvest, not free ranged as the rest of their life. (cept pigeons(they get beheaded the day they stick their head out of the nest.
If I put rabbit shit into my buckets of dirt a couple weeks before they're harvested...guess what again? more off taste.
easy for me to conclude that tapering the nutrient supply- mimicking exactly as nature does it, with diminishing poop, insect frass, fungi, light etc, all diminishing as my fruits and veggies finish. exactly)
I taste off tastes on my grapes and berries too when I feed them close to harvest.
so call it flushing? no , not me. but the nutrient supply at finish is purposely less than at start, seems like an easy grasp to me, like it comes natural, for top flavor and experience. two or three weeks after drying my meds are awesome my way.
if I feed them nutrients in dirt after their mark they need a good tobacco curing, I totally get it man Bigger leaves, heavier harvest, more cash, let it dry longer to get rid of the off tastes. tobacco 101.
funny thing is, pk boosters and such in flower make more leaves, not more trichomes, rendering the weed less potent by weight comparably. Heavier harvests here come from careful training and proper care in veg first.
to each her own for sure. I like my peaches harder, picked early even but my wife wants them degraded to mush. I want pears softer she likes them harder. you like longer curing, more fertilizer, I dont. Believe me I have nothing to prove or sell, no books no manuscripts, nothing, and if feeding them more in flower and curing them longer tasted better to me and mine, and was preferred by my patients I for sure be doing it.
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I'm trying to send pics from my phone to my computer, but we're being hit with a blizzard and my internet service is kinda crappy. please be patient xD
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It seems as though I opened up a wasps nest. It was not my intention, I've just been reading and reading and reading about "flushing" plants before they're harvested. So, back to my original question oh connoisseur's of cannabis, how long do you think until I can chop this mother down and start curing?
My Internet service is crap right now. So I figured I'd just post them via my phone (which I probably should have done in the beginning, but it's such a pain).
I have a second plant that I started at the same time, but was stunted and is probably a week or 2 behind the plant in question. The funny thing about it is that I thought it would never catch up to other plant, but it actually surpassed it. It's actually quite funny, Jeff Goldblum was right, "Life... Finds a way"...
Hans, it's called Dreamberry. It's from Attitude seeds, which is a cross between Blue Dream and Berry Ryder.
I also want to say that the smell, although not overly pungent has a smell like no other. I'm not a pothead. I started smoking Cannabis when I was 16 and it was normally "mersh" or "brick bud". I have since grown and so has my palette. this bud almost smells like a "spicy fruit". I can't put my finger on it. My wife catches me going downstairs and sneaking a smell and jokes with me about it. I can't help myself!
I have a second plant that I started at the same time, but was stunted and is probably a week or 2 behind the plant in question. The funny thing about it is that I thought it would never catch up to other plant, but it actually surpassed it. It's actually quite funny, Jeff Goldblum was right, "Life... Finds a way"...
Hans, it's called Dreamberry. It's from Attitude seeds, which is a cross between Blue Dream and Berry Ryder.
I also want to say that the smell, although not overly pungent has a smell like no other. I'm not a pothead. I started smoking Cannabis when I was 16 and it was normally "mersh" or "brick bud". I have since grown and so has my palette. this bud almost smells like a "spicy fruit". I can't put my finger on it. My wife catches me going downstairs and sneaking a smell and jokes with me about it. I can't help myself!
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Bugeye
Well-Known Member
The practice of "flushing" a plant is defined as running 3X pot volume of water through medium. Why 3X and not 2.5x? Who knows? It is stoner myth. When discussing "flushing" on RIU, you should define the term. I believe this is the definition Dr Who is using.
The practice of "flushing" a soil is also commonly used as a synonym for "leaching", ex. going water only during the last couple weeks, making sure to produce a little run off with each watering to push salt build up out.
chem is describing tapering, which is a half step away from leaching. That's my take, the commonly defined usage of flushing on RIU is the 3X pot volume.
The practice of "flushing" a soil is also commonly used as a synonym for "leaching", ex. going water only during the last couple weeks, making sure to produce a little run off with each watering to push salt build up out.
chem is describing tapering, which is a half step away from leaching. That's my take, the commonly defined usage of flushing on RIU is the 3X pot volume.
View attachment 3905824 View attachment 3905826 View attachment 3905827 View attachment 3905828 
My Internet service is crap right now. So I figured I'd just post them via my phone (which I probably should have done in the beginning, but it's such a pain).
The pics above are of the plant that was stunted.
My Internet service is crap right now. So I figured I'd just post them via my phone (which I probably should have done in the beginning, but it's such a pain).The pics above are of the plant that was stunted.
Oh Jeebus, I didn't come prepared. I think what I was referring was just feeding with water, and not using nutrients. I'm using a jewelers Loupe, but it's fairly difficult to use.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Oh trust me here. This "flush and fade' BS always creates a rukus...Don't worry about it!
The point that Chemmy made has 2 sides to it, and he mentioned one. You have to cure properly! It takes longer then many can wait.....Tough shit, that's the way it is.
The second thing is perception and belief. If you believe that you taste something....Your mind will not except the fact that your not.
I strongly disagree with his view/opinion on "the fade" in plants......Science bares out to my side on that....period. You are not decreasing the amounts of "nutrients" in the budding plant matter by either idea....Plants just don't work that way..
He just can't wrap his head around the fact is, that if you feed less, the plant will take from it's self to continue it's path - trying even faster to get "there". At some point the plant does begin to loose the battle. If you get that far. Your buds are starting to yellow and your really loosing the quality, you so strongly fought for by feeding and caring for the plant. BUT, until that time, those buds are not loosing any effective amount of "nutrient".. It takes far longer then he and others believe!
The other thing is. It is not the perceived nutrient ions that maybe present in the plant matter that contributes to off taste as much as many believe!
It is part of that plant matter it's self, contained with in the plant and some parts that make it up. That break down, starting in the drying - (properly drying) - and into the cure. That actually make that final difference.
How, he believes. Has a scientific name! It's called the confirmation bias.
The fact that you don't properly cure. IS your problem! Your to impatient to do it properly! Hell, you spent all that time attempting to grow them right. WHY NOT prepare them for smoking right? (As far as feeding charts for bottled nutrients. Most of them are wrong anyway)
You don't "cure" tomato's or Tilapia or anything else you mentioned. You simply went right to "conclusions"....Involving a plant we are not putting on the table. We smoke it! Everything sold over any counter, that you smoke.....IS PROPERLY CURED!
YOU even acknowledge it! HERE by saying
That indicates you have a grasp on curing. Now start understanding that we are smoking this herb...Curing is how you prepare plant materials for smoking...
The rest is meaningless stuff to the point I'm making.....
I'm only attempting to supply actual science fact....That way new growers can got over this BS myth of flushing/tapering.
To ME, flushing is any amount of "over watering"! Fade is to remove nutrient use before harvest. Stopping synthetic nutrient use in soils or absorptive materials only days from harvest. Basically reduce nothing in the media! The plant still can draw from residual nutrient in the media - longer than many think...
Remember when I said that plants uptake nutrients in forms most people don't understand? They do not take up nutrient "salts"...
They do not wash away.
Not fighting with you chemmy! Just attempting to get you to open your mind and understand....
As far as harvesting time....PLEASE! Do whats good for you.....I'll give you that!
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Nice plants! I would increase N in bloom or start the high P/K bloom nutrient later. That will get rid of that yellowing from High P bloom nutes.. It'll increase your final quality too.
Flip light times -run veg for 2 more weeks - run 50/50 veg and bloom mixed for 1 week. Go 100% bloom week 4. Run till pistils have turned and receded, calyx's have swollen well and trichs color...
Plenty of sativa strains don't really amber much.....learning proper finish times are learned and not really followed by a day schedule..."sorry Chemmy"..my turn on harvest opinions
....Mikenard77
Member
I've been a member for months with my first grow I never found out how to get help I'm pretty much half way through flower with no help on the forum I think it's cause I just did a journal. I need help tho my trichomes are amber 37 days I feel it's time to flush and harvest. please check the question I just posted in harvesting and curing I got pics and my setup! So sorry for hijacking idk what else to do
HansBud
Well-Known Member
that's when I'd run her till, most of my autos come down 75-85 days if that helps
Thanks for the heads up, Hans.
No worries, Mike.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I ponder this.
drwho's curing process is necessary for smooth smoke, if plants are fed to harvest, like tobacco. tocacco is smooth too, if not fed to the harvest btw, albeit a lighter harvest. my herb is smooth as long as I dont over feed, needs longer sweat when its fed to the end though. fact. grapes taste like shit when fed to the end, so do all of my veggies and fruits, cured or not. my herbs are cured btw, and used fresh too. I can taste your ammonia in over fed crops when I feed in late flower, but not when I dont.
nute manufacturers love money.
they want you to succeed. if feeding more of their product, feeding it longer too, meant better healthier plants
they would instruct to feed more/spend more money/use more ferts.... tight to the end of harvest aye...but they dont.
when I fed their products to the end my product sucked after a few weeks drying. when I did not feed to the end, you know, like following the directions....my plants were stellar ever time. FACT
I dont want it to be this way, its just the way it is. If it could be better I'd already be the best
all hydro directions are wrong? um, ok they must be looking out for our bottom line , like saving money for us by tapering nutes towards finish.???
I can keep a plant alive forever with proper light and feed, but I dont, I want my marijuana to finish, like in nature, and die when finished, with buds chunky sticky and full of flavor, not from stored nutrients not needed at this time in its life.
this works for some because they want it to? feeding to the end uses other issues, and they deal with them. Their plants are heavier because of it. not with more active ingredients, but with shiny green leaves, unlike any other fruits or veggies I grow. my veggies leaves and fruit leaves die off at finish.
I notice farmers dont fertilize crops at the end of growth, except tobacco, farmers, wishing for the heaviest leaf, biggest plant, uh oh....it tastes like shit...whadda we do? hey, let it sit for a month, smoke it out, heat it, cool it, yeah, we'll call it "curing"..because it cures the fault of over feeding.
my apple trees like to stop growing bright green leaves as the fruit ripens. I see the same with my grapes, my peaches, my plums,
and most every plant in my orchard. happens because resources are more scarce at the end of season than the beginning.
senescence my men, senescence, learn all about it right here.
for clarity. I do not remove all of my fertilizers during the end of flower. Hell, feed once at flower onset and one more time at mid flower. in pro mix. i use crumbles, they dissolve slowly. its poop. there is poop in the mix at the end of flower of course. I dont flush volumes of water, I do water with water only though, right to the end.
drwho's curing process is necessary for smooth smoke, if plants are fed to harvest, like tobacco. tocacco is smooth too, if not fed to the harvest btw, albeit a lighter harvest. my herb is smooth as long as I dont over feed, needs longer sweat when its fed to the end though. fact. grapes taste like shit when fed to the end, so do all of my veggies and fruits, cured or not. my herbs are cured btw, and used fresh too. I can taste your ammonia in over fed crops when I feed in late flower, but not when I dont.
nute manufacturers love money.
they want you to succeed. if feeding more of their product, feeding it longer too, meant better healthier plants
they would instruct to feed more/spend more money/use more ferts.... tight to the end of harvest aye...but they dont.
when I fed their products to the end my product sucked after a few weeks drying. when I did not feed to the end, you know, like following the directions....my plants were stellar ever time. FACT
I dont want it to be this way, its just the way it is. If it could be better I'd already be the best
all hydro directions are wrong? um, ok they must be looking out for our bottom line , like saving money for us by tapering nutes towards finish.???
I can keep a plant alive forever with proper light and feed, but I dont, I want my marijuana to finish, like in nature, and die when finished, with buds chunky sticky and full of flavor, not from stored nutrients not needed at this time in its life.
this works for some because they want it to? feeding to the end uses other issues, and they deal with them. Their plants are heavier because of it. not with more active ingredients, but with shiny green leaves, unlike any other fruits or veggies I grow. my veggies leaves and fruit leaves die off at finish.
I notice farmers dont fertilize crops at the end of growth, except tobacco, farmers, wishing for the heaviest leaf, biggest plant, uh oh....it tastes like shit...whadda we do? hey, let it sit for a month, smoke it out, heat it, cool it, yeah, we'll call it "curing"..because it cures the fault of over feeding.
my apple trees like to stop growing bright green leaves as the fruit ripens. I see the same with my grapes, my peaches, my plums,
and most every plant in my orchard. happens because resources are more scarce at the end of season than the beginning.
senescence my men, senescence, learn all about it right here.
for clarity. I do not remove all of my fertilizers during the end of flower. Hell, feed once at flower onset and one more time at mid flower. in pro mix. i use crumbles, they dissolve slowly. its poop. there is poop in the mix at the end of flower of course. I dont flush volumes of water, I do water with water only though, right to the end.