The flush "myth"

[thenotsoesoteric]

That bud your holding in the pic needs to be flushed ..ASAP...looks strange ....

I did let that one go a little longer.

 

[Lucky Luke]

The term Flushing is not even used in the horticulture industry. At all. And in this day and age the Cannabis industry should try to rid the term flush. However chemical companies like the term so they can sell chemicals to people who want to magically get rid of chemicals using chemicals.

They (Horticulturalists) do use the term leach. As in to leach the soil (usually of salts build up). This can be useful and is not a myth,

Some stoners believe that leaching the soil will remove chemicals from the flowers that have accumulated their during the grow cycle. This is not the case. This is myth.

 

[chemphlegm]

So you say big tobacco fertilizes until the end? Then it has to cure to taste good? Are you implying that tobacco finished with a flush would smoke great with no cure? I find that hard to believe. Have you tried this?

I am implying that NOT feeding to finish will produce fat large tobacco leaves that need no "volumes of water at the end of cycle" to flush. flushing this way at the end will do nothing, unless growing in hydro perhaps. Yes, I do grow tobacco. NO, I do not flush with volumes of water. I do not add any fertilizers to my living soil during the last 20 days or so. run off is still strong though, and they taste so much better compared to the ones I've fed to the end.
flushing is for toilets.

 

[WeedFreak78]

Flushing, or leaching, the correct term as noted, is just washing excess nutrient salts from your medium.... wasted nutrients you're plant never used. If you feel you need to flush at the end, cut back your nutrients 25%, maybe more. In soil, run plain water for the last week or two, in hydro, keep ECS around .2-.4 to the end. We don't harvest dead plants, we harvest at the peak of production, no reason to cut out their food for weeks before while they are still growing and maturing. A weak nutrient solution will actually pull nutrients from a plant, due to osmotic reactions. The less concentrated nutrient solution and higher concentration within the plant will try to find a balancer. Using RO/ distilled /0 ppm water, having nothing in it, the plant can't exchange ions as easily and can actually lock salts in the plant.

 

[jarvild]

My feeds in coir DTW never run over 600 ppm ( 1.2 ec) at max flower with most of my veg feeds in the 400-450 ppm range and I'm in the 2# range running 600 watts of HPS.

 

[Flowki]

My feeds in coir DTW never run over 600 ppm ( 1.2 ec) at max flower with most of my veg feeds in the 400-450 ppm range and I'm in the 2# range running 600 watts of HPS.

Wow that low?.. I was under the impression 800 ppm was considered light.

Ec is utterly lost on me. Mix up dry nutes to 800 ppm and the ec reads around 2.4..

 

[jarvild]

Wow that low?.. I was under the impression 800 ppm was considered light.

Ec is utterly lost on me. Mix up dry nutes to 800 ppm and the ec reads around 2.4..

When you've grown as long as I have you'll figure it out. I'd calibrate my meter, because 800 ppm @ a .7 conversion is only 2.0 ec.

 

[Bugeye]

I am implying that NOT feeding to finish will produce fat large tobacco leaves that need no "volumes of water at the end of cycle" to flush. flushing this way at the end will do nothing, unless growing in hydro perhaps. Yes, I do grow tobacco. NO, I do not flush with volumes of water. I do not add any fertilizers to my living soil during the last 20 days or so. run off is still strong though, and they taste so much better compared to the ones I've fed to the end.
flushing is for toilets.

You do not cure your tobacco?

 

[chemphlegm]

You do not cure your tobacco?

lets start with your definition of "cure" ?

 

[Bugeye]

lets start with your definition of "cure" ?

For tobacco it is usually a fermentation cure of either the flue stick or stacked bundle variety.

 

[chemphlegm]

For tobacco it is usually a fermentation cure of either the flue stick or stacked bundle variety.

I agree this is how big baccy does it.

I start my curing while its growing, I feed organic bunny pooh and fish effluent to them as often as I do my other veggies.
I stop fertilizing this way around 3/4 of the way to harvest, just like my tomatoes. They get water when needed and harvested in the mornings. I cut the leaves and dry them in my mj drying space, whole leaves. They dry nicely. When they're ready to shred they smoke smoothly. not sure what the fuss is about really, except building commercial style weight for profit, or tweaked plants for photo ops, like this one, then in order for a smooth experience a long cure or fermentation and rehydration is necessary,, like this one did. The buds were no bigger, no more potent, nothing any different than the same un tweaked variety growing next to it fed normally. except it tasted like shit when it was dried, compared to the others. -which were grown in only a technaflora nute kit, which incidentally tapered the amounts of fertilizer used as flowering cycle ended, worked flawlessly too.

my mj is much the same, grown even except indoors. I dont ever over feed, or feed to the end either. I dont add anything except tea feedings to midway, big scoops of organicare at flower onset and another midway. I got really lucky with this brand, I followed the directions on the package and it was perfect every time!. I dont have plant issues, deficiencies, I dont flush, I dont ph, I do water correctly and I get real lucky with the drying technique too, never detected pm, bud rot, or any dry room mold. I used fresh bunny poop for a long time but became uncomfortable handling it in the medicine room when my patients came aboard, found organicare to be equal, but composted too

peace out.

found tobacco cannot be sold shredded without atf permissions. however whole leaf tobacco sales are like the tomato laws. wondered about the 18 and over thing....but wtvr

 

[Flowki]

When you've grown as long as I have you'll figure it out. I'd calibrate my meter, because 800 ppm @ a .7 conversion is only 2.0 ec.

It must be defective, calibration is not off o0.

 

[Budley Doright]

I have successfully used flushing (hydro) to rid a run of a distinct taste aquired using a growth regulator so it does have its uses .

 

[python_thrust]

I don't know about scientific studies, but i can tell that basing on my experience of 12 years of cannabis growing i can't taste the difference from a flushed plant from a non flushed one...

The thing i can tell you for sure is that some additives can produce a difference in taste, specially the infamous "flowering Boosters" like Bloombastic. And this can't be resolved with a flush.

Respect

 

[Budley Doright]

I don't know about scientific studies, but i can tell that basing on my experience of 12 years of cannabis growing i can't taste the difference from a flushed plant from a non flushed one...

The thing i can tell you for sure is that some additives can produce a difference in taste, specially the infamous "flowering Boosters" like Bloombastic. And this can't be resolved with a flush.

Respect

Well I disagree that it can't help because it did with my run. Harvested 2 plants early, they had a quite strong taste, the others I figured why not try and two weeks of running straight water and no more taste. Not a flusher and never used additives but listened to the chemist that mixes my nutes (bad mistake). In this case it saved 2/3rds of harvest.

 

[Dr. Who]

Oh don't jump to conclusions just yet, If the topic was the swimming pool I'm still on the diving board, didn't do well at school ;[.

For example trying to learn about salt build ups was a pure mind fuck. The amount of reactions, various salt/chemical definitions and how they can be broken apart in water then form once dry completely lost me in all truth. All I really came away with is that chlorine in one form or other is in tap water and it's one possible component. That can be removed by gassing off (unless chloramine) but then tap water also contains chloride and sodium anyway. So I ran with the uneducated conclusion that one should grow organically with as natural water as possible or go with coco/hydro to limit the ability of salt (chemical too) to form due to cutting out dry cycles. But that does not necessarily cut out the harm such chemicals may inflict on their own.

Anybody who is actually educated ^^, am I right in thinking that the plant in fighting toxicity's can uptake and store components that make salt and then if the medium drys and the plants wilt, salt could potentially form inside the plant?. I get the feeling that's a really dumb question.

NO - Not possible!

 

[WeedFreak78]

Wow that low?.. I was under the impression 800 ppm was considered light.

Ec is utterly lost on me. Mix up dry nutes to 800 ppm and the ec reads around 2.4..

I think your meters fucked.

When you've grown as long as I have you'll figure it out. I'd calibrate my meter, because 800 ppm @ a .7 conversion is only 2.0 ec.

1.0EC@ .7=700PPM, @ .5= 500PPM
2.0EC@ .7= 1400PPM
1.2EC@ .7= 840

How did you get your numbers?

 

[Dr. Who]

So you say big tobacco fertilizes until the end? Then it has to cure to taste good? Are you implying that tobacco finished with a flush would smoke great with no cure? I find that hard to believe. Have you tried this?

No, not really (The first part). I've been on tours of a few of the ultimate cigar companies and that included the fields. The tobacco is all well cared for. The plants intended to be used as the wrappers....are cared for as much as we care for our plants. Some of these are feed as needed to a point.

He may understand it that way in his "logic" thought pattern.....In reality, NO WAY! You must cure tobacco's for use....Most of them are "heat" cured to start. They warm as they cure and that breaks down the nasty's faster. It's a real long story on how tobacco is cured and just what goes on in the tobacco as it cures....

 

[Dr. Who]

Educate yourself by growing two of the same clones from start to finish, then flush one of them and don't flush the other. I didn't think there was a debate on whether or not to flush, but rather to use flushing agents or not, as well as to pH the water or not. Trial and error has led me, personally, to flushing with non-pHed water. However, not flushing at all results in a less preferable smoke in my opinion. I apologize for not citing any facts which is basically all you asked.

This will not work properly!
If you have even one little bit of a feeling, one way or the other. That is how the "test" will go! Even if it's not the right answer!

It's called "confirmation bias" = google that and learn!

So being kind of a noobie here i usually tend to skim through threads from time to time trying to get ideas and snippets of information. One that I have seen pop up multiple times is that flushing is a myth and its about money for nut companies and ect. Now. I pray this doesnt turn into a debate. But i ask why this is a myth or at least believed to be. I ask that people dont come in here bashing about FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH because i am currently one of those guys. I flush gallons of ph balanced water with no cleaning agents only. So my question now is, could someone cite some sources of facts for me or link a previous thread that already does so? Please, FACTS not oppinions or bashing for doing it or not. Im simply trying to educate myself, I actually just had someone tell me to crop my plant and throw it in a bowl of water for 24 hours and thats how thwy flush it. Sounds pretty off the wall but like I said, I dont know so I am trying to educate myself.

Read this and read the link at the bottom - if your still on the shelf.

Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds,but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!

There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)

There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.

Read this too!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

 

[Budley Doright]

"If you have even one little bit of a feeling, one way or the other. That is how the"test" will go! Even if it's not therightanswer!"

My experience was not a test, it was just me trying to save a personal harvest and it worked. Not sure how or why as I have never bothered with the science and now to old to start lol. Surely the plant will take up things that are not wanted as the water travels up the plant. Is it not possible for these things to be carried out as well? I'm not talking about nuetrients per say but things in general, if that makes any sense. Also this was a one off and have not used that foul smelling stuff again lol. Honestly when I have done a staggered harvest using my regular nutes and stopped adding nutes, I have not noticed any differences other than the plants that have just plain water seem to take longer to finish properly (slight Amber). My motto is do what you think needs doing, I'm not gonna sweat a grower that uses plain water for the final week or two, life's way to short .