To flush or not to flush..? Nutrient burn?

[im4satori]

silica blast...aka potassium silicate

https://customhydronutrients.com/potassium-silicate-c-1_60_68.html?zenid=954f18803276a0557bfecc6b22d4d4d1

this dry powder is the same thing as silica blast only without the water

all they do is add water and a label and mark it up

silica has a shit ton of K
if you add this to your feeds it will push the K up very high and lead to potential lock out of calcium and magnesium....
it also increases PH big time so adding it into your medium frequently might be an issue unless you ph adjust the solution back down to range

personally I prefer to spray it every other week
if you spray it you avoid the mentioned issues

and if you spray it you also get the added benefit of protecting against powdery mildew

it works much like another product called green cure
green cure is PH up and soap
when you spray your plants with a high ph solution it kills PM

so silicate is a better option than green cure (green cure has sodium in it and can burn plants)

the silicate will push the ph up in the same way as the green cure to affect PM

I add
1gram potassium silicate with 1 ounce neem oil or azamax

spray 1x every two weeks for protection
unless you've got high humidity or pM issues then you could use it more frequently

frequent use will cause some burn, so watch it closely
if your chasing PM a SMALL amount of burn isn't the end of the world

if you spray 2x in 1 week you might see tiny burn..maybe

I notice after spraying, if I spray frequent
the leaves will canoe =magnesium def (fold long ways down the margins like a canoe or a taco)
this is from the K blocking magnesium

if your spraying in-frequently just ignore it itll correct itself
if your needing to spray it frequently (2x in a week to kill PM)plan to follow with another spray of Epsom salt 1/4 tsp per gallon a few days later (at least 3days between sprays)

 

[im4satori]

check out my last post
I made an edit and added

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

Can Cal-Mag cause lock out. If so, what nute does it lock? I've been using it every water and feeding. Is this bad?

 

[im4satori]

based on the info I have I cant say its good or bad
do your plants show any issues?

really it depends on how much your using and how that compares to your K content
in hydro most peeps need about 3 to 5mls per gallon is common for the most common brands of fertilizer (General hydro, advanced)

but if your using fox farm nutrients for example the dose could be as high as 10mls per gallon...because the fox farm nutes have little to no calcium...if you look at the bottle theres no source of calcium listed

your in soil so its going to be forgiving and there might be calcium amended in the soil already

then theres variables like pot size and age of soil or length of time since last transplant

calcium def shows up first on leaves as rust colored freckles
magnesium def shows up first as taco leaf or canoe leaf

magnesium def corrected early will show no lasting signs of stress

you might consider laying off of it or cutting back to every other
and watch for signs of def

def issues are easy to correct and plants respond quickly

over fertilization issues can plague you and send your head spinning and they take much longer to correct

 

[im4satori]

you may already understand this but just in case you don't;
each element has an effect on other elements..

so if you raise any one element it will affect at least one other

for example
calcium, magnesium and potassium all compete for uptake
theres a balancing act between them and if its not within the appropriate range or ratio you can experience what looks like def symptoms...
the answer isn't always add more.....
some times its add less....

if your experiencing magnesium def, it could mean theres not enough magnesium, or it could mean theres too much calcium or potassium blocking the magnesium uptake which will look like magnesium def
adding more then leads to more problems with high salinity issues requiring constant flushing

the potassium silicate is a good example
if your already working with a well balanced ratio between K:Ca:Mg and then you add silica blast as directed on the bottle
you will almost be guaranteed to have symptoms of magnesium def because of all the extra K in the silica blast

so now your adding more magnesium to correct what looks like a def

as you add more magnesium it begins to affect the calcium... all that extra magnesium is competing with calcium so now you've also got signs of calcium def

you go on line with a picture and someone says "looks like calcium def add more calmag"

now your running down that rabbit hole with no carrot youll end up with nute burn

in this case the proper correction is to lower the K content in the solution to allow magnesium uptake

 

[im4satori]

so while you could be lacking in an element

just consider that's not the only possibility

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

A balancing act. You couldn't have explained to me better. You have really taken me to school with all this info and I can assure you that I will be coming back here to use it all.

 

[im4satori]

theres a direct relationship between;

nitrogen and potassium

potassium and calcium and magnesium

iron and phosphorus

iron and zinc and manganese

chloride and nitrogen


one will affect the other

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

Thank you, went to my local Hydroponic store for some information the guy said fallow a chat.... I figured, I'm never gonna learn following a pre made chart using over priced nutrients. Can't even find half the "secret ingredient“ in half these products. I want to know the bare bones of it. I appreciate the lesson.

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

Is it the accumulated nutes in the soil that cause an effect on each other, or is it only when feeding as a combined solution?

 

[im4satori]

im not an expert when it comes to soil, im in training

soil has its natural buffering nature so its a bit different
it also has the decomposition of organic matter that becomes available to plant for food so theres variables in how the soil is amnded
for example if your soil came out the bag and had manure, your not going to need anything in the form of N for a few weeks min.
so answering certain questions with any accuracy is impossible

been growing hydro for a long time
if you where in hydro the answer would be yes & yes...both

in soil you have a large margin for error that you don't get in hydro and the medium/soil can essentially set aside what it doesnt want/need...
if you've eaten cabbage 3 days in a row youd like not desire cabbage on the 4th day (poopies) so youd push it to the corner of your plate...
if your mommy kept adding cabbage to your plate each day thereafter it would eventually accumulate if you don't eat it

accumulation happens when you keep adding something that's not being eaten and or not being flushed out with enough volume of fluid
it also happens by way of precipitates .... (as I understand it or to put it simply) which is a chem reaction between elements that causes them to bond in the medium making flush these bonds difficult or impossible
for example calcium and phosphorus and sulfur

so in the case of soil...the soil is like a buffet, your plant can pick and choose, to a point
and what many people do is plain water feeds every other

the plain water feeds flush out yesterdays un-eaten left overs (to a point)

the more WELL BALANCED your nutrient solution the less likely accumulation will occur

if you feed your kid food excessive in fat he will accumulate fat deposits... if you feed your kid a WELL BALANCED diet, no accumulation of fat will occur

 

[im4satori]

so in short

hydro doesn't buffer..the plant doesn't have the option to be selective, it gets all or nothing
you gotta give it what it wants specific

soil buffers so you can get close enough!
then flush out whats left and do it again

both will accumulate iif something is in excess but the buffering effect of soil is much more forgiving

 

[coreywebster]

Is it the accumulated nutes in the soil that cause an effect on each other, or is it only when feeding as a combined solution?

There is a thread on here somewhere called reverse engineering your nutrients. If your looking to make your own it might be interesting for you to read, would show that all these bottled nutrients are the roughly the same but it would help you copy some of the BRANDS if you wanted to using your own salts.

Edit, thanks for the well presented information @im4satori

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

As always, great explanation. OK so I read that all strains are different in feeding. What do you do when you start a new strain you've never worked with? I ask because I never feed full solution strength, always a tiny more then half or half strength. I think my girls are missing something. I've been growing autos and read they are sensitive to nutes. I'm afraid to burn them.

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

Unfortunately I'm at work and unable to present any pictures. Coming later tonight

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

There is a thread on here somewhere called reverse engineering your nutrients.

Thanks for the information. I will definitely pass by that thread. Future projects

 

[im4satori]

As always, great explanation. OK so I read that all strains are different in feeding. What do you do when you start a new strain you've never worked with? I ask because I never feed full solution strength, always a tiny more then half or half strength. I think my girls are missing something. I've been growing autos and read they are sensitive to nutes. I'm afraid to burn them.

the difference is marginal for hydro and not enough to affect a soil grow whats so ever

most strains will grow fine using the same nute ratio

the biggest difference might be overall ppm/EC
some plants can tolerate very high salinity while others do not

in my experience those that can tolerate high salinity doesn't mean they prefer it

on occasion I will get a plant that's just super picky
growing from seed id say maybe 1 in 50 that will have different needs

I just chuck it

 

[im4satori]

in my experience
usually those few that a super sensitive or picky show issues early

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

in my experience
usually those few that a super sensitive or picky show issues early

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out

 

[Delta-9Pyromaniac]

These are all auto please help me diagnose these problems.

Sour D- born 2/23 early bud because I topped it. Not sure what's wrong with her This is a Lowryder 2 born 1/12. Leaves yellowing a lot sour d born 3/14. Top leaves started clawing today. Bottom leaves are yellowing girl scout cookies born 3/18. Top leaves are clawing and one of her cotyledon are yellow.