Calli's Conundrums

[SSGrower]

The two I have used are recharge (kind of like this one their office down the road a bit from me, no idea where product comes from) and myke tree and shrub. Recharge seems to have most of what you list,in a quick search I found Myke only lists endo and echtomychorrhaze, my gripe about myke is that it just seems ther is alot of perilite in their mix but probably the same microbe count per dollar as 1lb myke about the same cost as 8oz recharge.

 

[calliandra]

 

[calliandra]

But I found we have morels growing in the garden, when I went to save some peonies from getting mowed down by our gardening "experts"

So it seems it's not clear whether morels are saprophytes or do form mycorrhizae...
just in case, the surrounding vegetation- white lilacs and peonies, and in the surroundings, tulips, lovage, a large maple tree about 10m away....


The morels are sprouting on 4 spots within the area I fenced off there

I harvested one to check insides and all

The rolypoly was pissed for getting cut out like that and stayed in the garden.
Pretty sure there can be no mistake on this one!

...now the question, do I go and do the ego thing, & harvest aaall the other 4 growing there?
In the woods, I always harvest so that you can't tell I was there, but this, is a veggie garden...
Ah an impro conundrum

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I'd look out for a mix containing (in order of "importance" by ubiquity):

• Rhizophagus intraradices (formerly Glomus intraradices)
  
• Funneliformis mosseae (formerly Glomus mosseae)
• Rhizophagus fasciculatus
  
• Glomus aggregatum
  
• Claroideoglomus etunicatum (formerly Glomus etunicatum)
  
• Rhizophagus clarus (formerly Glomus clarum)
  
• Gigaspora margarita (formerly Glomus margarita)
  
• Glomus deserticola
• Funneliformis monosporus (formerly Glomus monosporum)

And get a mix, don't go for single species.

If there are trichoderma in it (there are both harzianum and koningii in the glückpilze-mix) - all the better.
We were scratching our heads over this somewhere on the forums a while back. In Teaming with fungi, Lowenfels dedicates a side box to them and ends the discussion for now: seems the current bottom line is: they're great to have.

Hey Cali
just wanted to note that while trichoderma are crucial for the soil-health, they are best to not have any in the myco applications, they actively consume myco much faster than the myco can colonize with the roots.
my favorite for myco is this one.
it's the correct type of endo myco and there isn't any trichodermas
trichoderma are one of the easiest and most proliferate microbes to come across, typically in almost any healthy fresh source of humus will be loaded with it, so naturally you'll have plenty of those guys, but they eat like a mofo, and they will eat up any and all fungi, myco in particular

heres there web page for more info

https://www.xtreme-gardening.com/mykos

cheap and effective
good stuff

OH! forgot to mention it earlier, you said you were using biochar in your soil?
don't forget that you want a good amount of nitrogen in that, I saw that you were just gonna use an AACT
you could do that but it'll sequester some nitrogen for a lil bit when you do it
if you do it that way put it in with your compost
but biochar without nitrogen will yellow them up more than you think..
don't ask how I know...

 

[calliandra]

Hey Cali
just wanted to note that while trichoderma are crucial for the soil-health, they are best to not have any in the myco applications, they actively consume myco much faster than the myco can colonize with the roots.
my favorite for myco is this one.
it's the correct type of endo myco and there isn't any trichodermas
trichoderma are one of the easiest and most proliferate microbes to come across, typically in almost any healthy fresh source of humus will be loaded with it, so naturally you'll have plenty of those guys, but they eat like a mofo, and they will eat up any and all fungi, myco in particular
View attachment 3921791
heres there web page for more info

https://www.xtreme-gardening.com/mykos

cheap and effective
good stuff

OH! forgot to mention it earlier, you said you were using biochar in your soil?
don't forget that you want a good amount of nitrogen in that, I saw that you were just gonna use an AACT
you could do that but it'll sequester some nitrogen for a lil bit when you do it
if you do it that way put it in with your compost
but biochar without nitrogen will yellow them up more than you think..
don't ask how I know...

Hey Grease, thanks for the pointers!
I can't find the ingredients list for the mykos stuff - do you know which exactly they put in there and what they fluff it up with?

As for the trichoderma!
Yeah there was a discussion on here somewhere a while back where my conclusion was, tricos are ok, because yes, they do what you say, but they also get stopped by the mycos.
I wanted to ask the guys about that actually, and see what their take is (well obviously they thought it was a good idea at asome point) ... but every time I go to their shop I end up on one of my soap-box rants about saving the world lol

Ah and thanks for saving me from myself regarding biochar + compost tea.
Makes sense and, I shan't ask how you know hehe
Actually, I now have all sorts of possibilites for what I could steep it with:
kelp (dried), or some hi-N lawn clippings? dandelion flower? nettles?

No fresh alfalfa tho, just yesterday I've finally decided to make a giant plant smoothie of the alfalfa, feed it back to itself and add the mycos then, so the first round of alfalfa is reserved.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Hey Grease, thanks for the pointers!
I can't find the ingredients list for the mykos stuff - do you know which exactly they put in there and what they fluff it up with?

As for the trichoderma!
Yeah there was a discussion on here somewhere a while back where my conclusion was, tricos are ok, because yes, they do what you say, but they also get stopped by the mycos.
I wanted to ask the guys about that actually, and see what their take is (well obviously they thought it was a good idea at asome point) ... but every time I go to their shop I end up on one of my soap-box rants about saving the world lol

Ah and thanks for saving me from myself regarding biochar + compost tea.
Makes sense and, I shan't ask how you know hehe
Actually, I now have all sorts of possibilites for what I could steep it with:
kelp (dried), or some hi-N lawn clippings? dandelion flower? nettles?

No fresh alfalfa tho, just yesterday I've finally decided to make a giant plant smoothie of the alfalfa, feed it back to itself and add the mycos then, so the first round of alfalfa is reserved.

I've used a dandelion and comfrey ferment before, worked well, probably the most efficient and effective charge is urine
but anything with a lot of nitrogen is good, you could bubble a high nitrogen bat guano tea also, I just find a lot of the guanos to not readily mix with water well, maybe add some coco-wet to it?
if it were me i'd just pee in a five gallon, and add between 3 and 4 gallons of water and fill with the biochar, stir it up real nice (mmm pee-charcoal tea!)
i'd give em a good two hours or so to soak, more stirs the better
OH, and rinse the biochar first, or the dust on them will jack up your ph, it's rather alkaline
If you do use dandelion i'd mash up the entire plant, especially the tap root
ideally though you want a soluble high nitrogen input
something near 10 to 15%
blood meal would work too, just gotta wait longer for it to dissolve (bloodmeal is gross to me)
Fish hydrosylate would work, so would fish emulsion but that usually has high levels of metal and other contaminates in it.

Woudn't use kelp though, not soluble enough and too little nitrogen
same with manures too
although rabbit manure/bedding would work

 

[calliandra]

I've used a dandelion and comfrey ferment before, worked well, probably the most efficient and effective charge is urine
but anything with a lot of nitrogen is good, you could bubble a high nitrogen bat guano tea also, I just find a lot of the guanos to not readily mix with water well, maybe add some coco-wet to it?
if it were me i'd just pee in a five gallon, and add between 3 and 4 gallons of water and fill with the biochar, stir it up real nice (mmm pee-charcoal tea!)
i'd give em a good two hours or so to soak, more stirs the better
OH, and rinse the biochar first, or the dust on them will jack up your ph, it's rather alkaline
If you do use dandelion i'd mash up the entire plant, especially the tap root
ideally though you want a soluble high nitrogen input
something near 10 to 15%
blood meal would work too, just gotta wait longer for it to dissolve (bloodmeal is gross to me)
Fish hydrosylate would work, so would fish emulsion but that usually has high levels of metal and other contaminates in it.

Woudn't use kelp though, not soluble enough and too little nitrogen
same with manures too
although rabbit manure/bedding would work

Ah excellent! Thank you!

Then I will do like so:
I'll put the biochar in a pail and will pee straight into it for a few days - just had a checkup and am healthy as anything, & not taking meds beyond some vitamins
I did this a few years ago, for the garden outside, grew some awesome zucchini that summer.
There's no smell at all (which at the same time is the quality control).
I won't rinse the biochar though, seeing this one's made from hulls:


But I'll ask the guy who made it what his take is on rinsing too!

I think I'll go partial pee and chopped and strained hi-N greens juice then.. mmMMMmmm

 

[calliandra]

oh and for balance's sake, some happy vibes to remind us of why we're still living as if the world can be saved anyway

 

[calliandra]

Change the vibe, and solutions shall come, in the truest sense of the word

So 13 days ago, the maple


and the apple tree


were cut back, over in the garden. Changed my day's plans a bit, as I had to make sure the guy knew what he was doing, and got myself some bean poles and chopping block, as I intend to try the axe way of chopping my browns

I brought some of the branches, which were just getting ready to bloom, back home, and on a whim, added mycorrhizal powder to the water jug I stuck some of them in. The ones that were just in water bloomed and have died off whilst the ones on the - ah., I'm going to call it a deck, I liked the sound of it a few posts back - so, deck:

The apple is putting out new leaves and the maple is starting to form seeds too!
But no visible roots forming. But also, some signs of drying out of selected branches... so have they been reattributing nutes and pulling whatever was available from the water? Which got filled up almost daily as they are drinking alot.

So I added a handful of vermicompost, which then got me nervous about the whole thing going anaerobic
And I had the feeling there were more dried up parts today too

With a little bit of sunshine dancing, problem solved:

And lookie! Perlite is a great insulator!
I do think my soundproofed ACT brewer will have perlite around the bucket space, it really kills the drone and the vibration too!

 

[Tim Fox]

Change the vibe, and solutions shall come, in the truest sense of the word

So 13 days ago, the maple
View attachment 3922055 View attachment 3922057 View attachment 3922058

and the apple tree
View attachment 3922056 View attachment 3922059

were cut back, over in the garden. Changed my day's plans a bit, as I had to make sure the guy knew what he was doing, and got myself some bean poles and chopping block, as I intend to try the axe way of chopping my browns

I brought some of the branches, which were just getting ready to bloom, back home, and on a whim, added mycorrhizal powder to the water jug I stuck some of them in. The ones that were just in water bloomed and have died off whilst the ones on the - ah., I'm going to call it a deck, I liked the sound of it a few posts back - so, deck:
View attachment 3922051
The apple is putting out new leaves and the maple is starting to form seeds too!
But no visible roots forming. But also, some signs of drying out of selected branches... so have they been reattributing nutes and pulling whatever was available from the water? Which got filled up almost daily as they are drinking alot.

So I added a handful of vermicompost, which then got me nervous about the whole thing going anaerobic
And I had the feeling there were more dried up parts today too

With a little bit of sunshine dancing, problem solved:
View attachment 3922053
And lookie! Perlite is a great insulator!
I do think my soundproofed ACT brewer will have perlite around the bucket space, it really kills the drone and the vibration too!

so pretty

 

[calliandra]

so pretty

Yes they are
Later, I saw that the apple is also starting to grow fruit - it would be so magical if they actually grew roots!

 

[calliandra]

Update @ Conundrum #2
Improving the soil of an alfalfa patch
(https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-2#post-13434764)

SO after much conundering, the solution for the alfalfa patch was to feed it to itself

I gave up on a side by side as the bed is too small, the growth too uneven due to shading, and maybe soil conditions; the plants northwards (bottom on the pix) had more munch-marks on them, so they're weaker there.



So first, take the new, hi-N growth (as everything green sprouting in springtime is pretty hi in N )
Make its contents readily available by increasing the surface area and extracting plant protoplasma into a fluid form too.
In short, green smoothie time



The soil got lightly loosened, as I noticed how the alfalfa where I'd taken the first sample was growing better than the others, and remembered how the ACTUAL reason I'm doing all this is to replace the toil of mechanical aeration j/k lol

So, soil loosened, also as to allow the mycospores to get to those roots more easily.
Oh and I took a soil sample before putting anything back. Will check on it tomorrow.


Topdressing of stems that were too thick (my blender started smoking at some point, oops), along with the chopped alfalfa leaves and softer stems.



Watered in with 10L alfalfa juice first,
then 6L mycorrhizal solution,
then 20L water, as I was done hoping on that fat rain cloud that had been hanging around all day, taunting me to leave the mulch on (which I did, when you take mulch off, it sort of disappears?) haha

I just hope the watering got the mycos down into the soil!
I'm really paranoid about them getting where they're supposed to be...

@greasemonkeymann, maybe the trichs are in the mixes specifically to prevent germination too soon?
In Teaming with fungi I read that there is only a limited time after germination for the fungus to reach the plant root - before it runs out of carbon reserves.
So the scenario could be like so:
In the beginning, the spore sits in the ground and can't germinate, because all those saprophytic tricos are sproutiong around it.
Then a root is nearby and secretes those messenger substances, that cause the spore to germinate (and probably change the environment to neutralize whatever the tricos are putting out too?) and which then guide it to the plant root (!! I can't get over how amazing that is).
So that could be a reason?


Then.... I sat myself on my bench and pondered on how to talk myself out of having done all this a day before full moon, especially since we'd been talking about it here

Well... possibly, with all the energy in those tips I just cut off today...
but then gave all of it back to them, in a readily available form...
along with organisms that will wake up the soil life and speed up and diversify the new growth.
And it being full moon, it all will get pulled back up into the plants in no time too..
haha pure confabulation here now

Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

Following up on yesterday's update, the soil in the alfalfa patch continues as we first saw it: totally bacterial, hardly any structure. The bacteria did look a tad more active (not active enough to warrant filming them though )

I've started making my assaying process more consistent, and am now taking 12 fields, spread evenly, in a sort of imaginary roster, across the slide. That is, after I scan the slide for larger critters.

This is the very best that turned up in the fields - it was the only one with a bit of hypha in it, AND a cyst right next to it too...
400x


So, though we have only had a few light frosts of late and there's growth everywhere, the microherd doesn't look like it's going to change significantly with the seasons, at least to now

Next test in 2 weeks!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Update @ Conundrum #2
Improving the soil of an alfalfa patch
(https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-2#post-13434764)

SO after much conundering, the solution for the alfalfa patch was to feed it to itself

I gave up on a side by side as the bed is too small, the growth too uneven due to shading, and maybe soil conditions; the plants northwards (bottom on the pix) had more munch-marks on them, so they're weaker there.



@greasemonkeymann, maybe the trichs are in the mixes specifically to prevent germination too soon?
In Teaming with fungi I read that there is only a limited time after germination for the fungus to reach the plant root - before it runs out of carbon reserves.
So the scenario could be like so:
In the beginning, the spore sits in the ground and can't germinate, because all those saprophytic tricos are sproutiong around it.
Then a root is nearby and secretes those messenger substances, that cause the spore to germinate (and probably change the environment to neutralize whatever the tricos are putting out too?) and which then guide it to the plant root (!! I can't get over how amazing that is).
So that could be a reason?


!

hmmm, not sure if thats the reason or not, I don't think I know enough to answer that, in regards to the myco, i'd maybe have concerns with all the other stuff in the veggie blender-mix, reason is that stuff would totally give the fungi and bacteria all sorts of food to proliferate, but at the same time that means more of massive numbers-growth.. and they run out of food eventually... and then it's like a massive pack of hungry lions turning their eyes on that myco that hasn't fixed to any roots yet..
course my imagination is a bit juvenile... perhaps a lil over-active...

side note-- i'd be tempted to dig up one of those alfalfa plants to see if there is any nitrogen-nodules in there
just for curiosities sake anyways

 

[SSGrower]

Lunar update
Grape Sprout full moon was well for the sake of simplicity lets say yesterday, coulda been 2 days ago now for calli.

so to clarify, it is the one with the red stem still wearing a hat!
The history - Grape seed need to be cool and wet for at least 30 days before they will sprout. I got 3 to sprout last one a few days ago to intense sunlight and possibly too high humidity. I attempted 2 batches in these starter pots so there are still seeds in them but this one was in the ground since before last full moon. To paraphrase a steinerisim "If a seed is placed in the ground at an inopportune time and it does not sprout, it is of little consequence. It will simply remain there until it is right" This based on my recollection of hearing the audio version of the agricultural lectures free online if you need something to fall to sleep to, dudes voice is hypnotic.

Sharing pot with summer savory since I had basically given up on any more popping. Hope all is well in EU Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

hmmm, not sure if thats the reason or not, I don't think I know enough to answer that, in regards to the myco, i'd maybe have concerns with all the other stuff in the veggie blender-mix, reason is that stuff would totally give the fungi and bacteria all sorts of food to proliferate, but at the same time that means more of massive numbers-growth.. and they run out of food eventually... and then it's like a massive pack of hungry lions turning their eyes on that myco that hasn't fixed to any roots yet..
course my imagination is a bit juvenile... perhaps a lil over-active...

perhaps... but I totally can see what you mean! haha

My hope is that by then, the plants will have found the mycospores they like, have cajoled them to dock, and they're producing their own enzymatic environment to keep them safe...

And thats the reason I find a spore count of 140 endos per m² (if dosed according to instructions), a tad low. I ended up putting double the amount on - the area is like 3m² max and I made a mix for 6
Oh and it did end up raining in the night, so some more watering in did happen. A bit more fresh mulch may come along, as the gardening guys will be mowing the lawns these days -- so I'll be starting my thermal compost pile too! Scary

side note-- i'd be tempted to dig up one of those alfalfa plants to see if there is any nitrogen-nodules in there
just for curiosities sake anyways

Yes, honey, me too - lookie here, taken a week ago or so: https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-2#post-13434764
Actually, it's how the alfalfa experiment got started in the first place: I checked on those roots last fall, having read about nodules not forming if conditions are too bad - and they were too bad. So then I read how mycorrhizae help with the formation of the plant-bacteria symbiosis too, and here we are, trying that out

 

[calliandra]

update @ Conundrum #5: quick soil mix
(https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-4#post-13450025)

The grass will not grow faster if you pull on it.
A very wise saying from hereabouts lol

My vermicompost is not done, and I can't force it to finish faster.
I may stop feeding the worms so they go reprocess the older stuff, but then I'll have all the worms back down in the bottom tier... in any case, I think I should be giving the next batch another few weeks.

That leaves me in a very tight spot, as I mixed my soil last night



and rashly decided to "innoculate" it (volume without compost: 110L) with 1L fine vermicompost, leaving me only 2 cups for ACT or topdress in the next few sighs

I went with the flow a bit, and found I do not like the feel of perlite at all... but it was the only aeration readily available in my town.
So this is how the mix looks now (going clockwise on the pic above)

30L perlite,
20L soilfied garden soil mix, bacterial, containing more earthworms than I thought
50L store-bought soil mix, smelling very nicely of fungi (in the pic it was only 30L )
10L biochar soaked with urine and 2L chlorophyll juice from some of this:

(that being a mix of nettles, grass, dandelion, veronica, clover, ground ivy, and whatnot)



How does that look to you guys?

It sure feels weird, with the perlite... kinda crunchy... not really like soil at all?!
I'd really like to add 40L of compost to that, some reasonable stuff, and I think I know a place where I may be able to get some... fingers crossed!

I do need to remember that what I'm making here is just the base for a soil recycling/no-till system, in which there will be compost amendments again and over... so this soil may not be the greatest to start with, but it's got aeration and potential...?

 

[calliandra]

update @ Conundrum #1: compost tea vs. rust & blackspot
(last update: https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-2#post-13443459)

The third ACT is bubbling, going on 36hrs.
Nose-checked only to now, it's been smelling sweet and molassy throughout
I got myself a stronger air pump, which now can do 400L/hr, so I'm brewing 8L this time round.
For foliar, and I want to apply some to the cherry tree's roots too.

Being between houses sucks, I kept forgetting the sticky tape vs. the ants and only got that on a few days ago. Meaning the aphid party has started, and the ants were having a ball.

So yesterday, I sprayed the tips, especially the ones with larger infestations, with water containing a tablespoon of canola oil + a drop of biodegradable soap for emulgation, which partially removed the aphids mechanically, and will suffocate the rest (the oil film does something, I forget exactly how)... ugh I'm still killing things



Anyway, I hope it will take some of the pressure off, and help get a better protection going on the plant surfaces with that third ACT foliar - which will be the last for now.

The roses are showing some signs of disturbance on their leaves, but I didn't see any critters.
Any ideas as to who or what is making that happen are welcome:



And I finally took the tarp off the tomato bed, finding a mouse had made house there and was munching through seeds, not sure of what exactly.
Me human, me disturb everything rah


A mulch layer of rough browns (old stalks from last year broken over my kneee into 5-15cm long pieces) got added on top of that, in preparation for the green mulch coming up soon.
I don't think I'll have compost tea left for this one, but oh well.

There will be the new batch of VC by the time the tomatoes go outside, so trying not to fret about that...
Cheers!

 

[ShLUbY]

morels are both mycorrhizal and saprobic. it just depends on the location. the ones you have in your garden are quite mature, and have likely spored out. i would pick them all awesome to have them in the garden! LUCKY! I have so much catching up to do in your thread and not enough time to do it. it's on my to do list for the next couple days. are those ground cherry husks in the picture above this post?

 

[calliandra]

morels are both mycorrhizal and saprobic. it just depends on the location. the ones you have in your garden are quite mature, and have likely spored out. i would pick them all awesome to have them in the garden! LUCKY! I have so much catching up to do in your thread and not enough time to do it. it's on my to do list for the next couple days. are those ground cherry husks in the picture above this post?

Yes we did end up picking them all, I only took the one and added it to a topinambur soup, yum!

And yes those are ground cherries, and I think the capsules the mouse was evidently cracking there, are from the verbascum, though I can't remember adding any stalks (and can't tell from my pix either) to that mulch lol

I have so much to catch up on here myself it's silly!
So (and I never thought I'd say this, and *brr* nonetheless) thankfully, today I woke up to this,



so this week is giving me some time to tie up some of the loose ends I've got all over the place - including here
Here goes!