What do you believe is the fundamental problem with [American] government?

[Big_Lou]

Where do I start? The first,second,4th,-10th amendments?Other Constitutional violations? We could write a book covering the losses of liberty. So MANY Constitutional violations. Just go to YouTube and watch the video by John Stossel called," illegal everything ".

Stossel? He's a lump of racist republishit.

 

[MadMel]

Whaaaaaa?

You wouldn't be here without it.

Also, "immoral"? Are you a Jesus freak weirdo, or?

Socialism is a form of government. The individual has no rights, only the majority. You have no rights, I have no rights, basically only the government has rights. No thank you, Socialism looks GREAT on paper, but rarely works in real life.

 

[dagwood45431]

How is it not answered? Or are you trying to be deliberately obtuse?

If almost every one of the Bill of Rights is being violated by the federal government on a daily basis, THAT IS the answer.

Here's the question again along with a very simple and reasonable directive:

What are you no longer free to do? Be specific.

None of your answers (deflection attempts, really) answered that question and you calling me obtuse is absolutely, fucking adorable!

Third and final attempt to prove you understand basic English and can follow simple instructions?

 

[Big_Lou]

Socialism is a form of government. The individual has no rights, only the majority. You have no rights, I have no rights, basically only the government has rights. No thank you, Socialism looks GREAT on paper, but rarely works in real life.

That's certainly one way (the Repub/neocon way) of framing it.

Another might be the old fable Stone Soup. Guess I'm just a big 'ol humanitarian bastard. I give more to various charities than some folks earn in a year, and all of my 'rights' seem firmly intact.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Socialism is a form of government. The individual has no rights, only the majority. You have no rights, I have no rights, basically only the government has rights. No thank you, Socialism looks GREAT on paper, but rarely works in real life.

Do you think the people who advocate for democratic socialism want individuals to have no rights?

 

[dagwood45431]

Socialism is a form of government.

No, dumdum. Some socialistic policies are beneficial under any form of government. Why must you conservative freaks see everything in dumbed-down black-and-white terms? Lack of critical thinking skills? Inability to think abstractly? Anger and bitterness trumping (pardon) logic? Sucking too long at the nips of Tits Limbaugh and never weened? What?

 

[ttystikk]

i understand that they are two different ideas, but i do think that the goal of both is the same thing. why do you think it is okay that the federal government is telling its citizens to buy something?

Be specific.

If you're referring to healthcare, it's clear that the experience of every other developed nation is that nationalized health care is the best way to get better health outcomes for everyone at lower cost.

EVERYONE needs healthcare, just like EVERYONE needs roads, fire protection, police and a strong national defense. It's also clear that a capitalist model does not serve to reduce health care costs. In fact, with health insurance companies and hospital conglomerates, it's painfully obvious that capitalists will engage in rent seeking every chance they get.

Unlike cellphones, healthcare isn't something that can be reasonably put off or price shopped, and therefore a purely capitalist model doesn't work- except for the big corporations preying on the consumer.

If you want to end socialism in America, why not start by ending subsidies and tax breaks for the big corporations? THAT'S where the money is! Why do major banks get bailouts while the average American gets foreclosed?

It is definitely time you put more effort into learning about how money really works in this country. It is clear that you do not.

Pro tip: turn off the television and start reading economics texts and websites like nakedcapitalism.com, wolfstreet.com and watching videos like the ones I'm posting in the thread Mark Blyth in this section.

Please educate yourself about this. You reek of the arrogance of ignorance. There's a reason why those on the liberal side of America's political spectrum tend to skew to the more educated; it's because we see the Great Scams where the other side tends to swallow what they're told... by those doing the scamming.

 

[ttystikk]

socialism is still morally wrong - it is theft.

in 1920s, a high tax rate was created for the rich. that amount was $100,000. i'm sure the people who voted to tax the rich then felt that the system would be equal...inflation has made the "middle class" in 2017 paying "make-the-rich-pay taxes" that the People probably never intended they would pay. for generations this country has been dealing with a system that is corrupt. you keep focusing on your Chomsky propaganda. there will always be inequality. there will always be someone that has worked hard and has $10 in their pocket, and someone who just gets by and has $4. while you might think it's okay to take from the first guy to give to the second to equal things out, it is most definitely not.

@Fogdog health care coverage is not a right. i have coverage because i've made decisions in my life to reflect its importance to me to have the coverage. should we as a society help our population? of course!! should our federal government (as opposed to local) be in charge of it--no. we haven't discussed the Muslim ban, ICE activities or fossil fuels... i do feel the federal government has a role to play in our daily lives-i just want it to be a limited-in-scope government. i suppose you believe that the carbon dioxide people breath out (and cannabis growers around the world desire to get more of it in their garden) is causing global warming and should be taxed?

Ok! When you get cancer, fork over the several hundred thousand dollars to cover the cost of your own damned treatments or SHUT UP AND DIE QUIETLY!

Because that's the essence of your argument.

 

[undercovergrow]

a little socialism is like asking a woman to be a little pregnant. it's either collectivism or individualism for a social system - had the people of Roosevelt's time understood a little socialism leads to a lot of socialism we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now.

@ttystikk it is your opinion that it saves money but it does not. the healthcare system of NHS is severely burdened right now. even the healthcare expenses in the US is suffering because of ObamaCare - we are heading toward a single-payer system and we're all going to be screwed regarding healthcare very soon. everyone does need healthcare but i'm pretty much done "discussing" this topic with a bunch of obdurate socialists

 

[dagwood45431]

Be specific.

If you're referring to healthcare, it's clear that the experience of every other developed nation is that nationalized health care is the best way to get better health outcomes for everyone at lower cost.

EVERYONE needs healthcare, just like EVERYONE needs roads, fire protection, police and a strong national defense. It's also clear that a capitalist model does not serve to reduce health care costs. In fact, with health insurance companies and hospital conglomerates, it's painfully obvious that capitalists will engage in rent seeking every chance they get.

Unlike cellphones, healthcare isn't something that can be reasonably put off or price shopped, and therefore a purely capitalist model doesn't work- except for the big corporations preying on the consumer.

If you want to end socialism in America, why not start by ending subsidies and tax breaks for the big corporations? THAT'S where the money is! Why do major banks get bailouts while the average American gets foreclosed?

It is definitely time you put more effort into learning about how money really works in this country. It is clear that you do not.

Pro tip: turn off the television and start reading economics texts and websites like nakedcapitalism.com, wolfstreet.com and watching videos like the ones I'm posting in the thread Mark Blyth in this section.

Please educate yourself about this. You reek of the arrogance of ignorance. There's a reason why those on the liberal side of America's political spectrum tend to skew to the more educated; it's because we see the Great Scams where the other side tends to swallow what they're told... by those doing the scamming.

 

[undercovergrow]

Ok! When you get cancer, fork over the several hundred thousand dollars to cover the cost of your own damned treatments or SHUT UP AND DIE QUIETLY!

Because that's the essence of your argument.

i've been very sick and i have forked over thousands of dollars for my own treatment. there's the essence of your argument.

 

[ttystikk]

don't be rude.

where did i say it was acceptable to allow humans to die? it doesn't negate the fact that the problem with the government is corruption.

You're the one being rude.

Answer the question, Ms Morality!

 

[undercovergrow]

You're the one being rude.

Answer the question, Ms Morality!

what question, Mr. Morality?

 

[dagwood45431]

i've been very sick and i have forked over thousands of dollars for my own treatment. there's the essence of your argument.

Some people never learn.

 

[undercovergrow]

@dagwood45431 you're amusing that you think you're so smart - my point since you missed it was i took care of myself because i had made decisions in my life to be prepared for an event such as that and was still screwed by the system with health insurance and still had to pay thousands of dollars for that care. you don't think i am not aware that the system if broken??

 

[Grandpapy]

a little socialism is like asking a woman to be a little pregnant. it's either collectivism or individualism for a social system - had the people of Roosevelt's time understood a little socialism leads to a lot of socialism we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now.

@ttystikk it is your opinion that it saves money but it does not. the healthcare system of NHS is severely burdened right now. even the healthcare expenses in the US is suffering because of ObamaCare - we are heading toward a single-payer system and we're all going to be screwed regarding healthcare very soon. everyone does need healthcare but i'm pretty much done "discussing" this topic with a bunch of obdurate socialists

So much burden.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/health-insurance-industry-rakes-in-billions-while-blaming-obamacare-for-losses-110116.html

n fact, UnitedHealth announced record-breaking profits in 2015, followed by an even better year this year. In July 2016, UnitedHealth celebrated revenues that quarter totalling $46.5 billion, an increase of $10 billion since the same time last year. And company filings show that UnitedHealth’s CEO Stephen J. Hemsley made over $20 million in 2015. To be fair, that is a pay cut. The previous year, in 2014, Hemsley took home $66 million in compensation.

 

[dagwood45431]

a little socialism is like asking a woman to be a little pregnant

Nonsense, fool. Preggo/not-preggo IS mostly a binary proposition and nothing like a socialism/not-socialism continuum. That's a cute saying (get it from Rush or Sean?) but not grounded in logic.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

a little socialism is like asking a woman to be a little pregnant. it's either collectivism or individualism for a social system - had the people of Roosevelt's time understood a little socialism leads to a lot of socialism we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now.

Yeah, well we could have continued Hoover's policies and let people suffer in poverty, support big business and fuck unionism, and not grow the middle class and the enormus tax base that produced. Who the hell buys goods and services and lets companies proper?

@ttystikk it is your opinion that it saves money but it does not. the healthcare system of NHS is severely burdened right now. even the healthcare expenses in the US is suffering because of ObamaCare - we are heading toward a single-payer system and we're all going to be screwed regarding healthcare very soon. everyone does need healthcare but i'm pretty much done "discussing" this topic with a bunch of obdurate socialists

You're going to love single payer. You hear any bitching where it's in place? Fuck no, just here.

I have Canadian relatives. They don't come down here for treatment.

 

[ttystikk]

i agree it is an expensive and ineffective system! i am in agreement that the system needs to be changed. i would love to see a Star Trek everyone-is-taken-care-of scenario! but a little socialism always leads to a lot of socialism and i am just stating that we are where we are today because of all of the corruption.

Ah so you equate corruption with socialism.

I got news for you; capitalism is far more corrupt than socialism ever dreamed of being. Don't believe me? Then explain how under our capitalist system mega corporations get kickbacks and subsidies and tax breaks galore- and bailouts too- in the largest economy on Earth, yet HALF the American population Earth's less than double the poverty line?

Your idea isn't capitalism; it's FASCISM. And you're a sucker who supports it in spite of it being detrimental to your own well-being.

You've been shagged.

 

[undercovergrow]

So much burden.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/health-insurance-industry-rakes-in-billions-while-blaming-obamacare-for-losses-110116.html

ok so i can find an article like this:

http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

then, i can follow it up with this:

http://khn.org/news/democratic-candidates-debate-single-payer-but-what-does-that-mean/

Nonsense, fool. Preggo/not-preggo IS mostly a binary proposition and nothing like a socialism/not-socialism continuum. That's a cute saying (get it from Rush or Sean?) but not grounded in logic.

i don't follow either so no, i'm not familiar with it; however, and yeah, it kinda is...