Johnny Lawrence
Well-Known Member
Watt for watt, they will crush an HPS.
It's not about limited power. It's about lowering power and heat.
Are LED's That Good?
- Thread starter Cwrighty9420
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It's not about limited power. It's about lowering power and heat.
Xcoregamerskillz
Well-Known Member
People are currently having success with them, doc.
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
this is my second test grow using EB strip lights along with 4 plants flowering under T5s. where are your comparison grows?or are you just another one of RIUs troublesome trolls. the information I post here comes from my own controlled experiments and from commercial green house operators and suppliers.
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Eric Farley
Active Member
I have never grown under HID and started out with LED. I purchased the best LED I could find based on reviews and paid a lot for it. It draws a little over 600w and is designed to replace a 1000w HID or so the manufacture claims, I can't verify since I've never used a 1000w HID. What I can say is I'm very impressed with it and would recommend the light to others.
Here's a couple take aways from using my LED
Here's a couple take aways from using my LED
- The distance you keep the light from your plants make a big difference. There is a pretty small band that works well (about 6-8 inches) further away than that and you just don't get the intensity and your buds are loose, closer than that and you get too much intensity and you buds get bleached.
- Because of the limited effective distance you will need to train your plants, I find a SCROG works excellent.
- The light doesn't have fantastic canopy penetration so you will need to either grow strains that aren't very bushy or find a stain to responds well to heavy pruning so you can ensure the canopy isn't too packed, maybe this is an issue with HID too, idk.
- While these are always advertised as running much cooler than HID and it's true they still produce plenty of heat. The light I use will raise the temperature of the bedroom I grow in above 90 degrees in a day if I don't run a small A/C unit. It's a bigger LED so smaller ones don't need A/C, at 600w equivalent you may or may not need it, idk.
- Not replacing bulbs and having to deal with cooling ducts and reflectors is awesome.
- The results from the buds are on par with what I've smoked grown under HID in terms of taste, quality, potency and appearance.
- It cost more initially to buy into LED but if you plan to keep growing for years you'll pay less in the long run not having to replace bulbs.
Odin*
Well-Known Member
It's about limiting power use by attempting to be more "efficient" and cutting down "cooling" costs/energy. When considering indoor grows, this is a "false truth". Energy is never lost, only transformed. How is this relevant, if I have to explain, then that means I'm handing over the goose that lays golden eggs.
You're joking, but nobody is laughing. I am saying this again, no LED light is going to out perform a 1,000w HPS in quality, and certainly not even a fraction of yield. Proof? I can go by LED "suggested use" alone. You can drop the highest intensity LED to within inches of the canopy. Do the same with a 1k HPS and you're "Jiffy Poppin' ". You cannot grow 10' plants (and certainly not 12'), with rocks from top to bottom, under ANY LED/COB. It is as simple as that. Argue otherwise, you're the village idiot. This is fact, not fiction.
Feel free to prove me wrong. Pics don't tell the whole story, but I'll put up a bottom nug pic VS the BEST LED/COB cola. Gauntlet thrown.
The flaw in the LED/COB argument is that the proponents are only considering spectrum/"efficiency", completely neglecting what that "efficiency" sacrifices, which ultimately slows metabolism. To me it's "retarded", but I have a wider "scope", so... . Hint 1, already given above. Hint 2, already insinuated above. HID smashes LED/COB so hard that their mom's butt is sore.
I've seen these grows large scale and honestly they suck ass.
Fact, it is what it is.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
How are they measuring success?
If they worked so well and delivered what they claim. They would be in every professional garden in the US and beyond! Not to mention in every wannabe's tent to.
They are not.
The idea (true) is that a particular Nm band (730Nm) puts plants to "sleep" fast. In nature, it takes a bit over 2 hrs for the plant to actually reach that state. The use of a "Far red" LED takes minutes. The idea being that you now have about 2 more hrs of actual bloom lighting to use. Claims of 30% and more, increase's in yields were being delivered.
This was not exactly true! The amount of increase in yield vs. cost of running the extra 2 hrs. Was not worth the minor or better yet minimal increase (if there was one - more then once) in any yield! I tested this for 4 runs, so 4 times. It was done to see if it would make an increase in commercial ops that were being run at the time. It failed each and every time!
The Emerson effect is over rated and the flower initiator is not effective enough over the long haul to bother with it.
It is not "new" and not unknown to pro and commercial operators.
It's all in HOW you measure "success". Joe Blow from Kokomo. Growing for 3 years and in a closet. Generally can't be objective on some item he was enticed to buy.
Sorry.
Odin*
Well-Known Member
I'm not growing under LED's, not looking to waste time/space/money.
I prefer 5'-8' (strain dependent), but I've had them "run amuck", and have had to deal with 15' behemoths. "Technical difficulties" have held up a current run, many are over 6' after transplant into their final (bloom) pots. If I gave them the week that I generally do to "stretch their legs" (root), they would finish well over 12'. They're only getting 48 hours, will still finish around 9'-10' (some of the shorter Animal Cookies crosses will finish around 5'-7').
Who grows plants larger than "a few feet" indoors? I'll tell you "who", anyone that knows what they are doing (and has the room to do so).
Now that the cat is "somewhat" out of the bag...
naw, just forget that I said anything.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Never been in a commercial op then..eh?
Odin is correct!
If I were to run shorter plants and have high # plant counts. I would run COBB's. I can't, I have to remain in my #'s. To maximise my return, I run big plants that COBB LED's can't compete with HID to produce the yield and quality I get now, at the height I need to run.
Don't get me wrong here. I want to test COBB LED's for a total different application. But I'm in NO hurry to even attempt to try it in the production end. LED's are changing fast. maybe before I die the tables will flip. But, not yet!
The other thing is. If they were the next best thing that displaced HID. Why hasn't the greenhouse industry changed over? I worked in that industry for more then a few years. Cost vs. effectiveness! It's NOT there!
Another "sorry"....
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY!
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Really? LMAO.......
Let me guess - it's "blurple" ? OR cost over 2 grand!
Hmm.....
hillbill
Well-Known Member
Ten years ago hps grew great herb and still does but COBs are not very expensive anymore and outperform hps and will save about half on power cost alone these days. I also used cmh for years which did put out UV energy as attested to by several instances of welder flash personally. The potency and frost were better than hps alone but not any better than COBs.
Three years now with led only and non of that silly blurple. I still hate blurple!
Three years now with led only and non of that silly blurple. I still hate blurple!
Johnny Lawrence
Well-Known Member
I'm repeating myself here, but I replaced 2 600 watt HPS lights with 900 watts of cobs, and am getting the same results in terms of weight and quality. Keep in mind that 600 watt lights are more efficient than their 1000 watt counter parts. If I was only running a 1000 watt light in the space that I had the 2 600s, then I'd likely be outperforming that setup with the 900 watt cob setup. If I can get the same or more ppfd with less wattage, how does it not make sense?
BTW - I get far less larf than I did with the 2 600s. Multiple light sources equals better canopy penetration.
Yeah, of course a 1000 watt light is going to fry plants if you run it close. It's 1000 watts of light/heat coming from a single source. Thanks for stating the obvious. I run my cobs soft(50 - 75 watts each), so of course I can run them close. They're in a tent. Tents have low ceilings.
And who in the hell is growing 10 and 12 foot trees indoors??? That doesn't really make sense.
The colas I'm getting from cobs are just as big as the ones I was getting off the HPS lights, and like I mentioned earlier, less larf.
Tim Fox
Well-Known Member
very well said,, completely agree,,
Xcoregamerskillz
Well-Known Member
It's not about yield, and I'm not talking commercial here. There is a difference per application that you and Odin seem to be forgetting. Not everyone here is growing in a warehouse.
Flower initiators have been shown to reduce finish time by as much as 5 days, depending on the amount of light and time run. They can be made for less than 20 bucks, or added to a DIY light for even less. Is 5 days worth less than 20 bucks? you decide.
I'm not here to argue about HID, I won't use it, too much heat for my small set up. In the future? Maybe, if I build a solid walled grow space. For tents, LED hands down.
Tim Fox
Well-Known Member
how is a 19 dollar Citi 1812 cob expensive,, or an 18 dollar meanwell driver?,, a 3 dollar cob holder, an 18 dollar heat sink,, seems pretty cheap to me?
CannaBruh
Well-Known Member
Once you factor in even a minimum wage for your time put into logistics and assembly, then add in for parts and tools, it's not as simple as comparing off the shelf cost vs the minimum components cost.
The whole intensity and height argument is very thin. Street lamps deployed in new development often are LED, they are intense, so much that you cannot look at them. I can stare at street light HPS/MV all day no issue.
With enough LEDs appropriately placed you can cover the same plant you can grow with a traditional HID, just be creative or use more. Should still end up using less W from the wall.
Lights are a transducer, and an LED is a more efficient transducer than the HID counterparts.
The whole intensity and height argument is very thin. Street lamps deployed in new development often are LED, they are intense, so much that you cannot look at them. I can stare at street light HPS/MV all day no issue.
With enough LEDs appropriately placed you can cover the same plant you can grow with a traditional HID, just be creative or use more. Should still end up using less W from the wall.
Lights are a transducer, and an LED is a more efficient transducer than the HID counterparts.
Tim Fox
Well-Known Member
no tools required for cobs now,, all the connections are solderless,, the heat sinks come predrilled,, i guess you need a screw driver,, lol
I assembled my last cob panel is about 1 hour,,, stripping the wire took longer,, hahaha,, oh wait, the harbor frieght wire stripper was fast and was 2 bucks,, lol