The DNC Reports Lowest Fundraising Since 2003
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Would they vote wing nut if there was a viable progressive option who supported the things they support, like universal healthcare?
Yeah, that is crazy, I agree. But consider this.. The electoral college issue; it became an issue for Democrats after the election, after Clinton lost. Trump supporters have treated this issue the same way Clinton supporters treated an issue like voter registration time limits that Sanders supporters criticized during the primary (some still hold schuylaar responsible, as if she's some kind of complete retard, not a victim of a calculated voter suppression tactic). Yet she supported Sandes over Clinton, so her story doesn't matter..
They told us we shouldn't complain about the rules in place before the election, we knew the rules, if we wanted them changed, we should have worked to change them before the election took place. So, that's the same standard I will hold them to. If they wanted the electoral college changed, they should have changed it before the election took place. To bitch and complain afterwards about it, in their own words, won't get you very far..
If California were a truly liberal state, we would have single payer healthcare. CA and NY (especially) are not progressive state governments. They might be the most saturated in special interest greed
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
people who rely on obamacare literally voted for the guy who promised to repeal it because it would piss off libs.
they are not rational people and you aren't either anymore.
srh88
Well-Known Member
yeah its crazy, those people shouldnt vote for atleast a step in the right direction if they are progressive... they should just go ahead and vote ultra conservative instead. right?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
The REAL money is in corporate taxes. We could balance the budget, expand social programs and enact universal healthcare.
It wouldn't hurt to cut the offensive 'defense' budget by half or so. We'd still be by far the world's biggest military budget.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
you couldn't work harder to avoid an honest question if you tried.
what is republican lite about a public option and expanding medicaid to those who are 55+?
especially given the republican position at the current moment is to gut medicaid, kill the medicaid expansion within the states, kick 22 million off of health insurance, eliminate essential health benefits, defund planned parenthood, get rid of pre-existing conditions coverage, and return to the era of lifetime caps, wherein they can literally stop your chemo or NICU care?
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
If you blend some fuel oil with that manure, you'd get an explosion.
It's been an issue since Gore won by a half million and George W stole Florida for the win.
As far as changing it goes, we have about as much chance at that as we have getting Citizen's United changed. Or getting single payer.
When the other guy has 3 aces and you have a pair of 2's, it's hard to raise the bet.
And, as a general response to the entire post, don't forget the cyclical nature of politics, the constant desire for 'change', the bombardment of fake news, the science deniers, the wing nuts who think Trump is great because they believe that fake news and/or Hate (with a capital 'H') all Democrats.
It's just not as easy as you suggest.
You yourself express that progressives get high poll numbers, but the wing nuts win elections. There's a point to be made there. Look at it objectively and you'll see it. Be truthful to yourself. We're in a bad cycle right now and the desire for 'change' will play to our favor next time.
The desire for 'change' will never go away with this self centered, it's all about me society we have evolved into. So when we do win, don't count on it lasting forever.
And they DO cheat.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
How many steps does it take? The American people are already there, why is it taking our Democratic politicians 10,000 steps to meet us there?
srh88
Well-Known Member
if the american people are already there then explain why they are still voting conservative?
"oh we want universal healthcare... but fuck medicaid"
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Even if everything you say has merit, we currently have the power to change NONE of that.
So there's that. I'll take a compromise to get a piece of that. But we don't compromise anymore, remember?
Polarization. Period.
Get rid of Trump and it would get better.
There's no utopia on the horizon that I'm seeing.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Do you think there is one simple answer?
For one, there are issues with error in the opinion polls you are quoting. As discussed before, there are a lot of reasons for those errors. Other reasons may include, opposition to obamacare, fear of government controlling heath care, not wanting to pay for other people's healthcare, strong affinity for the conservative candidate overall, strong dislike for the progressive candidate overall, right wing propaganda via FOX and talk radio and fear of change.
I point to the fact that opinion polls and voter history in many districts aren't coherent on this issue and say it's clear that opinion polls don't predict voting behavior. When a statistical tool turns out to be unreliable, it's best to not use it until it has been shown to be reliable.
Well, this is your opinion. I'm not motivated to discuss it because you have no facts to back it up. In fact, your opinion is based upon a false assumption. It is false to say Democrats aren't running candidates who support universal healthcare in 2018 primaries in conservative districts.
I'd like to think your opinion to be true and I'd like to think that Universal healthcare will turn support for Democrats. In my opinion, people who vote for right wing candidates are more conservative than the opinion polls which are riddled with errors would say. That said, I am interested in following how Justice Democrats progress through the 2018 election cycle.
From what I've read of the West Virginia primary the Justice Democrats candidate isn't doing very well.
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SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
But we should totally apply their strategy to the party in general, cos they're winning!
srh88
Well-Known Member
But the Bernie people here said that if Georgia ran a progressive candidate he would of easily won.. surely it'll be like that in West Virginia right?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
What the GA-6 race showed conclusively was that the strategy of 'Republican Lite' was ineffective.
srh88
Well-Known Member
So they said "fuck that, if I can't have a progressive candidate I'm going republican full flavor". You're talking about an area where a full set of teeth is a minority.. I don't think healthcare is a big selling point
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Establishment Democrats strategy attempts to steal conservative votes from Republicans, Justice Democrats strategy attempts to give progressives in red districts (people who don't generally vote in elections) something they actually support to vote for
srh88
Well-Known Member
It's a great idea for already blue states.. maybe even close red states. But it's not going to happen in states that are flat out red. I have nothing against it. But not everyone sitting out an elections excuse is.. they aren't progressive enough. If they truly cared they'd still vote the lesser of two evils and work from there. Taking a small step is better then sitting on your ass and complaining, knowing that they made no real effort for change.
That's like a homeless person complaining about being homeless while making 0 effort to better their life
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
GA-6 is a well to do district, decidedly not full of stereotypical hillbillies.
The point I'm driving at is that running against the dominant party with the same message they're carrying is not a winning strategy.
srh88
Well-Known Member
It's the south man.. a progressive doesn't stand a chance. Id love to be proved wrong but I don't see it happening