A question of light ... and lack thereof.

[chemphlegm]

1)Chem. With all due respect. The plants that come from the plant you are named after tend to show late nanners. Some even at week 5 it starts.



Has nothing to do with Fem seed production at all. Most breeders see only $$$. They can't have a nanner show up in this mis-informed industry full of beginners who got their education on a public stoner forum.

1) late flower finger is a hermaphrodite? balls out with pistils is a hermaphrodite? all of my lines are hermaphrodites as they all will produce a few yellow fingers in late flower for me to collect the pollen that makes me fem seeds.

2) fem seed production=groweedeasy
"This feminization can be done in numerous ways, but in this case it can be done through a female plant becoming a hermaphrodite and self-pollinating, meaning that genetically the seeds have come from “two” females rather than one male and one female. This leads to increased chances that the seeds will be female."

"
Many growers believe that feminized seeds cause hermies, and there is some truth to that. In order to create a feminized seeds, one of the parent female plants had to be forced in some way to produce pollen.

That pollen is used to pollinate another female plant, and the offspring of those two plants will all be female since both of the parents were female. That's how you get feminized cannabis seeds. But that also means every time you have a feminized seed, that seed had a plant that hermied in its recent genetic history.

There are different ways to feminize seeds, but only some methods produce seeds that turn hermie on you.

• bad genetics - the plant comes from a line of plants that naturally create hermies
  
  
• high stress - high temperatures, light leaks, inconsistent light schedules, as well as other types of major stress can cause a healthy plant to hermie, though some plants/strains are more susceptible than others
  
  
• letting buds over-mature - this is also known as “rodelization;” basically when the plant’s buds have gone past maturity without being pollinated (if the grower waits way too long to harvest), a female plant will often make male pollen within its buds as a last ditch effort to pollinate itself and make seeds for the next generation
  
  
• chemical stimulation - by exposing a female plant to certain substances like colloidal silver or gibberellic acid during the early parts of the flowering stage, you can force any female plant to create pollen. This is how seedbanks get female pollen to produce feminized seeds.
  Seeds created from hermie pollen will turn out being female (or at least as female as the parents "

The idea of “feminized” seeds is heralded as a new wave of breeding enabling you to grow only females, but in reality it is a less reliable and less effective method than simply cloning your favorite plant. Feminizing seeds is nothing new; in fact, it’s done from a process that used to be called “hermaphroditic breeding” or “Breeding with Herman”.cannabisculture

this type of fem seed production has been happening for years, thats the way its been done for a long time until chemicals entered the scene, and still, that is considered hermaphrodite initiation?

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

1) late flower finger is a hermaphrodite? balls out with pistils is a hermaphrodite? all of my lines are hermaphrodites as they all will produce a few yellow fingers in late flower for me to collect the pollen that makes me fem seeds.

2) fem seed production=groweedeasy
"This feminization can be done in numerous ways, but in this case it can be done through a female plant becoming a hermaphrodite and self-pollinating, meaning that genetically the seeds have come from “two” females rather than one male and one female. This leads to increased chances that the seeds will be female."

"
Many growers believe that feminized seeds cause hermies, and there is some truth to that. In order to create a feminized seeds, one of the parent female plants had to be forced in some way to produce pollen.

That pollen is used to pollinate another female plant, and the offspring of those two plants will all be female since both of the parents were female. That's how you get feminized cannabis seeds. But that also means every time you have a feminized seed, that seed had a plant that hermied in its recent genetic history.

There are different ways to feminize seeds, but only some methods produce seeds that turn hermie on you.

• bad genetics - the plant comes from a line of plants that naturally create hermies
  
  
• high stress - high temperatures, light leaks, inconsistent light schedules, as well as other types of major stress can cause a healthy plant to hermie, though some plants/strains are more susceptible than others
  
  
• letting buds over-mature - this is also known as “rodelization;” basically when the plant’s buds have gone past maturity without being pollinated (if the grower waits way too long to harvest), a female plant will often make male pollen within its buds as a last ditch effort to pollinate itself and make seeds for the next generation
  
  
• chemical stimulation - by exposing a female plant to certain substances like colloidal silver or gibberellic acid during the early parts of the flowering stage, you can force any female plant to create pollen. This is how seedbanks get female pollen to produce feminized seeds.
  Seeds created from hermie pollen will turn out being female (or at least as female as the parents "

The idea of “feminized” seeds is heralded as a new wave of breeding enabling you to grow only females, but in reality it is a less reliable and less effective method than simply cloning your favorite plant. Feminizing seeds is nothing new; in fact, it’s done from a process that used to be called “hermaphroditic breeding” or “Breeding with Herman”.cannabisculture

this type of fem seed production has been happening for years, thats the way its been done for a long time until chemicals entered the scene, and still, that is considered hermaphrodite initiation?

First you must know I am educated in cannabis genetics. I don't know how what I wrote leads to hermaphroditism in cannabis. That is a specific genetic code mishap. And extremely rare.

Also. I did not know that you see stamen on your plants because of the way you commented.

I thought we were talking about light leaks causing single or bunches of stamen. Let's not mix up hermaphroditism into it.

And last. Professional feminized seeds are made with STS. The chemical stops the plant from producing a hormone called (ethylene?). The hormone is responsible for female flower production.

But now I know you see late "nanners" on your Chem's Chem.

 

[chemphlegm]

And last. Professional feminized seeds are made with STS. The chemical stops the plant from producing a hormone called (ethylene?). The hormone is responsible for female flower production.

.

I know exacly how they are made, but you do know that is not the only way right?
before the internet people didnt have these hormones and acids, or access to the info needed to use them properly.
using STS to make a female plant produce male sex organs...hermaphrodite?

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/2008/8/21/truth-about-feminized-seeds

STS has not always been used on cannabis plants. hormones/acids are a fairly recent thing on marijuana right?
remember folks used to use red lights too.(lol) if sts was available they prolly would have went that route? using herm seeds IS the way it was done for a long time.(dont know how old you are).
today ...no, we got sts to do it better. but for years growers and breeders did not have this. so they were breeding with herman, maybe leading to an influx of hermie genetics to the market?
Rodelization has been used, but again this is selecting female plants that actually show male counterparts(herm?) This can possibly produce seeds that are more likely to show male characteristics themselves(hermie) nice thing is =No chemicals, no hormones
fem plants have been selected for their ability to show sexual confusion in late flower,,,,so....

 

[Dr. Who]

G

Green is safe...ish.
Plants don't absorb green spectrum light so it's not likely to do any damage

Actually the plant does absorb some "green" spectral light. Some interesting experiments are being done with it. It appears that it's the combined spectrum relationship that has the biggest effect by "green" spectrum lighting.

I feel from past actions. That green led's are ok, as long as the "intensity" is spread out and not concentrated in one intense spot. be short in use by time of exposure to help....

 

[Dr. Who]

Rodelization has been used, but again this is selecting female plants that actually show male counterparts(herm?) This can possibly produce seeds that are more likely to show male characteristics themselves(hermie) nice thing is =No chemicals, no hormones
fem plants have been selected for their ability to show sexual confusion in late flower,,,,so....

That's what's been moved away from.....These early style "femmed" seeds can be rather unstable.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I know exacly how they are made, but you do know that is not the only way right?
before the internet people didnt have these hormones and acids, or access to the info needed to use them properly.
using STS to make a female plant produce male sex organs...hermaphrodite?

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/2008/8/21/truth-about-feminized-seeds

STS has not always been used on cannabis plants. hormones/acids are a fairly recent thing on marijuana right?
remember folks used to use red lights too.(lol) if sts was available they prolly would have went that route? using herm seeds IS the way it was done for a long time.(dont know how old you are).
today ...no, we got sts to do it better. but for years growers and breeders did not have this. so they were breeding with herman, maybe leading to an influx of hermie genetics to the market?
Rodelization has been used, but again this is selecting female plants that actually show male counterparts(herm?) This can possibly produce seeds that are more likely to show male characteristics themselves(hermie) nice thing is =No chemicals, no hormones
fem plants have been selected for their ability to show sexual confusion in late flower,,,,so....

im almost 50 years old to answer your question. I have known large growers outdoor and in since about 1984.

Dutch passion tested their feminized seeds for production in 1999.

CH9 seeds was interviewed by Skunk magazine for their feminized breeding techniques in the early 2000's.

I understand that this is about a decade after the techniques were discovered.

This is for STS. Not rodelization or stress. Or even just colloidal silver.

The article you linked is just one seed company who failed to learn how to breed good Fem seeds. And it is almost 10 years after stable ones went into production.

There are breeding techniques used in this. It is not just stress or chemicals that make good feminized seeds.

 

[chemphlegm]

im almost 50 years old to answer your question. I have known large growers outdoor and in since about 1984.

Dutch passion tested their feminized seeds for production in 1999.

CH9 seeds was interviewed by Skunk magazine for their feminized breeding techniques in the early 2000's.

I understand that this is about a decade after the techniques were discovered.

This is for STS. Not rodelization or stress. Or even just colloidal silver.

The article you linked is just one seed company who failed to learn how to breed good Fem seeds. And it is almost 10 years after stable ones went into production.

There are breeding techniques used in this. It is not just stress or chemicals that make good feminized seeds.

Understood, but before STS was available to the closet growers do you know that they used all kinds of techniques to force a female plant to show male parts in order to make female pollen?

 

[chemphlegm]

That's what's been moved away from.....These early style "femmed" seeds can be rather unstable.

sure, but point is thats exactly what early breeders were doing, and some other strange ways too, torture, ph, etc.... maybe they coul dbe the ones ....some of the first to be on the commercial scene? does anyone remember the oft sexually confused plants in the eighties? now not near as common today? seeds from "famous" breeders even? I saw more "hermies then for sure than in the last 20 but early on hermies were a real thing, unstable like you said.

In the past we forced females to make pollen, sometimes with strange techniques, but......now....
we have better ways of forcing a genetic female to produce male pollen resulting in less hermies, or none at all even, and more stable genetics to the masses.... except DJ short maybe?

this^

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Understood, but before STS was available to the closet growers do you know that they used all kinds of techniques to force a female plant to show male parts in order to make female pollen?

Yes.

 

[chemphlegm]

Yes.

..and that that fact could be responsible for some of the commercial seedstock to be sexually confused for generations of our weed for years? even a few here and there today?
I agree today breeders have more game, more in the game, and use the very best techniques or else they fade away.

if so, we're on the same page I think

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

..and that that fact could be responsible for some of the commercial seedstock to be sexually confused for generations of our weed for years? even a few here and there today?
I agree today breeders have more game, more in the game, and use the very best techniques or else they fade away.

if so, we're on the same page I think

Yeah we are. I was only originally commenting because I thought you were saying you never see "nanners" on your chem crosses.

If you want a discussion on what has gone wrong with genetics. I'm in. But we need a new thread.

They are getting much worse with the rec indistries flavor of the week mentality.

 

[Buba Blend]

After going many years with no major problems, I had an issue for a year and a half with overwatering. Many of you talking here helped me through it.
During that time using the same seeds I went through some bad hermie problems, balls and late stamen like never before. While you guys were spot on with the help, and I thought I had it figured out it still took me another fucked up grow before I figured out I was still overwatering. Since I finally have my watering under control using mostly my old style, using the same seeds I'm seeing no problems.
Outside in vegas 105 degrees 7 % humidity are about the averages. A few years ago I had a seed pop(not on purpose) on the edge of my control valves in the back yard. Clay soil, alot of rock in that particular area under the 1st few inches of soil. Gets watered daily by the grass sprinklers. before daylight 3 times for 5 mins. A t8 is 14 feet away with 2 bulbs not sure the wattage but it was often left on and lit the area up quite well, it was enough light to admire the plant.
I went over top of the plant many times with the lawn mover to top it, probably learned that on RIU. Shredded that sucker once and it came back. Left it alone in flower. It had a low profile and looked like a star fish with 5 tentacles that were buds. Nice smoke with a nice buzz.
I don't have a picture of that one. I have another from a diffent year. No hermie's nice looking xtal in the pic but I remember this one was an unimpressive smoke. Aside from keeping them as small as possible before flowering after flowering they were left alone, no ferts, no extra water.
Edit: just remembered, the one in the pic was never topped. It started late in the season and was just tiny.
I don't know how long it was flowering or when I cut it but pic was taken September 29th.

 

[ANC]

Unless you use soil, it is hard to overwater. Coco drains too fast for that to be an issue and hydroton even faster.
The way I see it, you have too much pot for the root system you managed to grow, or way too small, it became rootbound, both have similar symptoms.

 

[Buba Blend]

Unless you use soil, it is hard to overwater. Coco drains too fast for that to be an issue and hydroton even faster.
The way I see it, you have too much pot for the root system you managed to grow, or way too small, it became rootbound, both have similar symptoms.

I am in soil. I forgot to mention that.

 

[chemphlegm]

Unless you use soil, it is hard to overwater. Coco drains too fast for that to be an issue and hydroton even faster.
The way I see it, you have too much pot for the root system you managed to grow, or way too small, it became rootbound, both have similar symptoms.

what is rootbound and what are the symptoms?

 

[Greenhouse;save]

My flower room is pitch dark at lights off but as I mentioned before this led shines and reflects enuff to enable me to see my full ballast at lights off.......I'm gonna tape it up to be safe ......but.....I find it distressing that if infact it does give off enuff light to stress the plants no info is provided to at least give the buyer a heads up ........
Ps........I love these ballasts. ......

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

My flower room is pitch dark at lights off but as I mentioned before this led shines and reflects enuff to enable me to see my full ballast at lights off.......I'm gonna tape it up to be safe ......but.....I find it distressing that if infact it does give off enuff light to stress the plants no info is provided to at least give the buyer a heads up ........
Ps........I love these ballasts. ......

My Titan light controller has a dim green led display. I can see the room faintly but it is lit by the green light. It causes no problems I am aware of and it follows the science of very low green light not affecting the photoperiod. But is it causing stress? I don't think so because it is always there. The plants are in there with it from the beginning of flower. But I will never really know I guess.

Your LED display looks blue in that picture. Is that correct?

 

[chemphlegm]

My flower room is pitch dark at lights off but as I mentioned before this led shines and reflects enuff to enable me to see my full ballast at lights off.......I'm gonna tape it up to be safe ......but.....I find it distressing that if infact it does give off enuff light to stress the plants no info is provided to at least give the buyer a heads up ........
Ps........I love these ballasts. ......

if those little lights cause stress I'd say like the case of the straw that broke the camels back.
but tape them up like a check engine light if that helps you sleep at night

 

[Greenhouse;save]

My Titan light controller has a dim green led display. I can see the room faintly but it is lit by the green light. It causes no problems I am aware of and it follows the science of very low green light not affecting the photoperiod. But is it causing stress? I don't think so because it is always there. The plants are in there with it from the beginning of flower. But I will never really know I guess.

Your LED display looks blue in that picture. Is that correct?

Green......actually surprisingly it shines bright enuff that I could read txt if held up close to it.......I'll take a pic tonight and post it on this thread.......

 

[ANC]

what is rootbound and what are the symptoms?

When plants have too much root for the pot it keeps water from draining and suffocates the roots. Look at my thread called Roots in general section for a strategy to combat this.