A question of light ... and lack thereof.

[chemphlegm]

When plants have too much root for the pot it keeps water from draining and suffocates the roots. Look at my thread called Roots in general section for a strategy to combat this.

On the contrary my friend, I attempt to cause this with every bucket I use. I've vegged moms for two years in the same five gallon pail, flowered them finally too and they sure would fit the bill of root bound.....except for
"keeps water from draining and suffocates roots" part,
I use promix, and with 2 years of a five foot indica dom... and no root bound//// nobody vegges for two years and nobody flowers for more than a couple few months.

So is the problem really proper substrate mix possibly that does not allow water to drain? I think a shitty mix could do the same with no roots aye? not arguing just trying to dial this info in. thank you

 

[ANC]

That is why I said. He either has too much pot or too much root.

If you think roots that look like those above are healthy or normal, there is still a whole world of revelation ahead for you if you pursue this path.

 

[Buba Blend]

Thanks! @ANC I'd be happy to give you all the details about my watering problems that I went through. It's extensive.It was definitely a case resolved as overwatering.
I didn't figure it out yet here in this thread but these guys did in Oct 2016.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-out-high-humidity-calcium-deficiency-question.925094/

Unrelated to above.
I haven't used the pot up method in a long time. Decided after reading your style @MichiganMedGrower to try it again. This started in 4" with ff light warrior, 6" with ffof here in pic, then went today into 8" clay in my amended soil, next 3 gallon plastic.
This is one of the weak ones starting from seed. I wanted to see how they reacted to my soil, transplanted one yesterday and it's still alive.
Funny, when I pulled this one out of the pot, I hold up the camera and said shit I gotta get out of the hps. I'm running around with the plant in one hand, the camera in the other, leaving a trail of soil.
What do you think of the roots? Taken just now before transplant.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Thanks! @ANC I'd be happy to give you all the details about my watering problems that I went through. It's extensive.It was definitely a case resolved as overwatering.
I didn't figure it out yet here in this thread but these guys did in Oct 2016.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-out-high-humidity-calcium-deficiency-question.925094/

Unrelated to above.
I haven't used the pot up method in a long time. Decided after reading your style @MichiganMedGrower to try it again. This started in 4" with ff light warrior, 6" with ffof here in pic, then went today into 8" clay in my amended soil, next 3 gallon plastic.
This is one of the weak ones starting from seed. I wanted to see how they reacted to my soil, transplanted one yesterday and it's still alive.
Funny, when I pulled this one out of the pot, I hold up the camera and said shit I gotta get out of the hps. I'm running around with the plant in one hand, the camera in the other, leaving a trail of soil.
What do you think of the roots? Taken just now before transplant.
View attachment 3977188

They look healthy.

I would wait longer between transplants. And I like to let the soil get quite dry between waterings to get the roots to search out water and nutrients and hopefully fill the whole pot up.

Also in ocean forest which is a pretty dense mix I like to add 25% large perlite to add space and airiness for better drainage and stronger thicker roots result in my experience.

 

[Dr. Who]

There are breeding techniques used in this. It is not just stress or chemicals that make good feminized seeds.

Please expound on this.

The vast majority of quality seed producers, use a chemical. The others, seem to have stability problems in bloom.

 

[ANC]

View attachment 3977188

That pot should have been sized up a few days ago already, I would tear of the exposed roots at the bottom when sizing up.
You want all the substrate held by the roots but you don't want to see roots on the skin of the rootball. Or when you see them, it should just be the very tip of the root.

I also like to let my plants dry out quite a bit when they are small, never to the point of stress, but the roots need to go look for water.

Did you know roots can follow the sound of water? I put all my vegetable seedlings on a sheet of glass over an aquarium with water bubbling loudly underneath.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

That pot should have been sized up a few days ago already, I would tear of the exposed roots at the bottom when sizing up.
You want all the substrate held by the roots but you don't want to see roots on the skin of the rootball. Or when you see them, it should just be the very tip of the root.

I also like to let my plants dry out quite a bit when they are small, never to the point of stress, but the roots need to go look for water.

Did you know roots can follow the sound of water? I put all my vegetable seedlings on a sheet of glass over an aquarium with water bubbling loudly underneath.

I have to disagree here. My yield is 1.5 to 3x what it was now that I let the root ball go longer than that. Combined with letting the pots dry out a day longer than I thought I could. Dry enough to affect the lower leaves to start to droop.

I know it's the transplanting and watering habits as I had not changed anything else.

And I like to transplant up to at least double the volume of the present pot.

This is how I like them now. I used to do it as you instruct.


Since the time this pic was taken I have learned to water more gently and evenly and the roots fill the top inches of the pots now.

Always trying to improve my technique.




You call this plant rootbound. But I think it's just hungry and time to up pot her.

I could just fertilize this plant and keep her in the same pot healthy if I chose to. Plants don't get root bound in containers. They just need to be watered more frequently.

And it gets increasingly hard to meet their needs.

I choose to give her more space and fresh soil as I want to water only through veg. But I have seen pretty massive buds grown in a 16oz plastic party cup on these forums.

I don't even want to get into the plants "hearing" the sound of bubbling water. Cmon' now.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Please expound on this.

The vast majority of quality seed producers, use a chemical. The others, seem to have stability problems in bloom.

I have requested a copy of the old Skunk magazine article. I can't find it online.

If I get a copy I will post it.

But I thought you knew everything about breeding? Haven't you tested every single technique ever mentioned?

 

[ANC]

 

[ANC]

They don't hear, but they are sensitive to vibration, in a similar way.
It is very easy to test for yourself.rig up a water pump and some hose to run by on one side of a pot. I.e. the plant is not exposed to the water at all...
Your roots will grow towards the vibration of the water flowing.

 

[Dr. Who]

I have requested a copy of the old Skunk magazine article. I can't find it online.

If I get a copy I will post it.

But I thought you knew everything about breeding? Haven't you tested every single technique ever mentioned?

I'm not attempting to start a pissing match.

I was simply curious as to your answer. "I" would tend to disagree with non chemical methods.....pretty much period. If there is something that's new or has an opposing view. I simply want to read it.

I have never made that claim you posted here.

But I thought you knew everything about breeding?

Let me say here and now. "If you find the piece and post it - Thank you."

 

[chemphlegm]

That is why I said. He either has too much pot or too much root.

If you think roots that look like those above are healthy or normal, there is still a whole world of revelation ahead for you if you pursue this path.

maybe I get lucky not sure, but I notice plants in endless soil indoors really take off when the roots start to twirl
EVERY plant grown in veg here regardless of container size looks just like those pics you show or more white usually. one gallon bags, 55 gallon drum, no matter. Yes, they need resources to keep up with their metabolic rate but as long as they are provided properly roots can be jammed. I've seen solid roots in a bucket of bubbles doing very well here. the bucket held 1.4 gallons of water in the five gallon pail when it was finished. Hardly any room for water in there, but no issues.
Indoors I feel it impossible to grow in a container without roots collecting throughout. I have bonzai plants in the same little pots for 14 years, moms in one gallon bags of pro mix too, auto watered for the time save.

look at this plant grown in a one gallon grow bag. maybe "root bound" aint what people think. Plants can live in the same container for decades right?

 

[ANC]

Can they survive? Yes. These plants are really tough. Are they achieving their potential? maybe not.

I have not found any method that beats simply caring for the roots until you do the final repotting.
Most of the work is done in 3 weeks, after that you just watch a tree sprouting up, just taking care of feeding it.

 

[Buba Blend]

I have been planning to see what size mj plant I can grow in a 4" clay pot. This plant is 25". I keep the 4" pot in an empty 6" pot so it doesn't fall over. My dog is jealous of this plant as you can see.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

This video is about trees. Not indoor grown short flowering annuals.

Got any fully ripe plant pics and the yield numbers to pot size to prove your point?

I got 2 oz. per average plant when I transplanted before the pots were filled and the roots had started winding like I posted above.

The plant I posted did over 6 in the same pots but a little longer in each pot. So maybe 10 days total extra veg time.

It is only a matter of 3 to 6 more days in each size pot. And the average has been consistent for almost 2 years now.

I have tested inadvertently because of rushing a plant through veg like the old way but it hurt yield by ounces.

More roots more fruits is true. Doesn't matter about root pruning for a short cycle plant. If it did food production greenhouses would do it.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I'm not attempting to start a pissing match.

I was simply curious as to your answer. "I" would tend to disagree with non chemical methods.....pretty much period. If there is something that's new or has an opposing view. I simply want to read it.

I have never made that claim you posted here.


Let me say here and now. "If you find the piece and post it - Thank you."

You never stop making claims that are obviously not true.

Next instead of trying to tell me I'm in a pissing match with you you will call me a hater because I think you are full of shit.

You want credibility? Show your real garden complete with your old "special" air cooled hoods and your custom mercury vapor bulbs with the outer jacket removed.

And in real time. Not days later. Like in the 5 minutes it would take you to go outside to your "purpose built building".

And it would help if you stopped lying about all your studies and tests.

I'm waiting.....

 

[chemphlegm]

I used to have a dirt floor in my indoor grow room. With a clear roof I used the sun. I planted some in the dirt floor of course just to folly with that idea, and the rest in my five gallon pails. With the same veg and flower times they got the same height and expressed the same..... but when I put the steel roof on and used only hid's the ones in the dirt floor were the same height as the bucket ones but were wider. Both were great copies of each other. I eventually put a real floor in and stick with buckets, I saw no difference with roots bound up in any pail, cup, bucket, or drum under hid lights. The differences I see is the circumference of the container is directly related to the circumference of my plant. I tried short squat containers and proved this out to myself but saw no advantage for me to change from buckets.

 

[Buba Blend]

They don't hear, but they are sensitive to vibration, in a similar way.
It is very easy to test for yourself.rig up a water pump and some hose to run by on one side of a pot. I.e. the plant is not exposed to the water at all...
Your roots will grow towards the vibration of the water flowing.

I read a popular book in layman's terms about how plants hear see and feel. You probably read it. Was looking for it and found my 1975 indoor grow book. Be cool if any of you guys have read it. I thought it was great.

I believe that stuff. If mother nature wanted trees to have eyes, ears and brains that allowed them to think they are smarter than her then it would be a no brainer for her to do if she wanted to IMHO. Before ever talking to anyone about growing, when I was a stealth grower I would always play music before watering. I always felt in nature they might feel or hear or see the storm coming and the music simulated the vibration of thunder telling them water was on the way. It's amazing how little we knew about plants and soil 30 years ago. I'm sure we got a lot more shit to learn.

 

[chemphlegm]

imagine how they must feel with all of the electromagnetic waves we bombard them with all day and night. Air conditioners, dehumidifiers, air pumps, water pumps, fans, ballasts, hid lighting. poor little bitches.

I ground half of my plants and not the other just for fun. There are differences but only a grower with daily witness could tell, and its in coloration, seasonal, and nothing else I can detect so far in a few years of doing this.I read about it in one of these type books a long time ago

I think I recall a film with a cow approaching corn stalks in a field and somehow they could read the stress levels as the cow got closer. I could never find one of these readers for sale so I gave up on the idea. I'm guessing our added noise cancels out any musical benefits we could offer up.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I think mostly we believe what we as humans want to believe. Even with clear evidence arguments are still manufactured.

If plants are sensing vibrations then like chem said above just the circulation fans and ac in the next room being pumped in with another fan. And the 2 inline fans pulling through the reflectors and out of the room through noisy vibrating flexible duct would drown out the vibrations of anything else I might do.

What about the microwaves and radio waves. Do they sense them too?

I'm getting a headache thinking about all the electrical interference even way out here in the woods.

Are the natural foliage and trees effected positively or negatively by all this? They look pretty green out there.

Anyone have any actual science on this stuff?