Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

[ttystikk]

Why Bernie Didn’t Get My Vote
It’s not his focus on the economy—it’s that he doesn’t seem to understand that the economy is structured by gender and race.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-bernie-didnt-get-my-vote/

Bernie didn’t ask for my vote. Oh, you can go to his website and find a page of boilerplate setting out his general commitments to women’s rights: He’s in favor of equal pay, reproductive rights, the ERA, the Violence Against Women Act, childcare for all, and so on—a laundry list, indeed, of the causes dear to the heart of those often derided by his supporters as bourgeois feminists content with incremental change. I am aware, too, that Bernie has a good voting record on those issues in Congress. But there’s a difference between someone who votes the right way, and someone who introduces legislation and champions the issue. He never convinced me that gender issues, specifically the persistent subordination of women in every area of life, were of much concern to him. There were all those little tells. Pooh-poohing Planned Parenthood and NARAL as “establishment” when he didn’t get their endorsement. Arguing for parental leave because it allows a new mother “to stay home and bond with her baby” instead of as something that benefits fathers as well, and something that women need in order to work and advance on the job. Doubling down on the idiotic quip by his surrogate, Killer Mike (“A uterus doesn’t qualify you to be president of the United States”), with the pseudo-lofty pledge “No one has ever heard me say, ‘Hey guys, let’s stand together, vote for a man.’ I would never do that, never have.” Is there a word for someone whose entitlement is so vast, so deep, so historically embedded, and so unconscious it includes the belief that they got where they are by a resolute devotion to fair play? It’s not reassuring that his senior campaign staff, like his long-time political inner circle, is almost entirely white and male.

Irrelevant.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't think you understand what is going on here mouth breather. I'm also not surprised you can't tell the difference between what is good for Trump and what is good for Bernard.

Of course Trump would have kicked them off the stage, and he would have gotten more support from his racist ass base for that. Bernard on the other hand had to keep pretending to be progressive, ya dingus.

I understand that you can't stand the idea that someone might think differently than you and have good reasons for it, so you have to act like a four year old throwing a tantrum.

You don't deserve respect because you don't show any, petulant brat.

 

[Padawanbater2]

 

[ttystikk]

I think the local polemics hate him and his supporters so much because we represent the future and they know it.

He's the tip of the wedge of change, which will culminate in the re-emergence of the Power of the People. It will take time, but the direction is clear. He probably won't live to see Citizens United overturned, but history will point to him as the one who showed the way forward.

Because the likes of Cruz, Trump and Clinton sure as fuck don't.

 

[Fogdog]

Irrelevant.

Yeah.

After all, what's a black woman know about the reasons why Bernie was only able to attract white male voters. What's that I hear from you? Something like, If Democrats don't change they'll never win or something like that.

I do hope Sandernistas ((snicker) manage to drag the party leftward. I'm there too. To truly be a unified party the ground has to be occupied by more than white males. The author said something you didn't agree with. That doesn't mean she's wrong.

 

[Fogdog]

My reasons for not voting for Clinton include her vote for the Iraq War, her intimate ties to Wall Street, and her aversion to commit to single payer healthcare

Those reasons are personal, factual, and coherent. So why can't you respect them?

I recall you saying at the time it was because you knew Trump would win CA. It was true and you didn't. OK. Since then it's been nonstop bitching and regurgitating fake news, false stories and right wing propaganda about evil DNC. As if Democrats are the ones who are wrecking government.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Why Bernie Didn’t Get My Vote
It’s not his focus on the economy—it’s that he doesn’t seem to understand that the economy is structured by gender and race.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-bernie-didnt-get-my-vote/

Bernie didn’t ask for my vote. Oh, you can go to his website and find a page of boilerplate setting out his general commitments to women’s rights: He’s in favor of equal pay, reproductive rights, the ERA, the Violence Against Women Act, childcare for all, and so on—a laundry list, indeed, of the causes dear to the heart of those often derided by his supporters as bourgeois feminists content with incremental change. I am aware, too, that Bernie has a good voting record on those issues in Congress. But there’s a difference between someone who votes the right way, and someone who introduces legislation and champions the issue. He never convinced me that gender issues, specifically the persistent subordination of women in every area of life, were of much concern to him. There were all those little tells. Pooh-poohing Planned Parenthood and NARAL as “establishment” when he didn’t get their endorsement. Arguing for parental leave because it allows a new mother “to stay home and bond with her baby” instead of as something that benefits fathers as well, and something that women need in order to work and advance on the job. Doubling down on the idiotic quip by his surrogate, Killer Mike (“A uterus doesn’t qualify you to be president of the United States”), with the pseudo-lofty pledge “No one has ever heard me say, ‘Hey guys, let’s stand together, vote for a man.’ I would never do that, never have.” Is there a word for someone whose entitlement is so vast, so deep, so historically embedded, and so unconscious it includes the belief that they got where they are by a resolute devotion to fair play? It’s not reassuring that his senior campaign staff, like his long-time political inner circle, is almost entirely white and male.

Why did you vote for Bernie?

 

[Fogdog]

Why did you vote for Bernie?

I thought he was the candidate who best represented where I wanted the country to go.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I thought he was the candidate who best represented where I wanted the country to go.

Despite his overt racism and sexism that you like to point out?

 

[ttystikk]

Meanwhile, here's where the country is going.

Rentier seeking on the part of corporations driving people who borrowed money for their education into homeless shelters;

"Special Report: Herded into default, then hounded to repay student loans" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-studentloans-specialreport-idUSKBN1AA1J7

This is an egregious example, but there are many more in many industries all across our country. Corporations are using their influence in government to systematically destroy consumer protections and engage in rent seeking, destroying people's lives and their ability to contribute to society.

Yet another example of 'tragedy of the commons', pointing towards massive financial default and financial ruin for the entire country.

But hey- the rich will be fine.

 

[ttystikk]

Despite his overt racism and sexism that you like to point out?

I think that's called 'sour grapes'.

I voted for Bernie, as did over 80% of my precinct mates back in March of 2016, a result of record turnout in Colorado's primary.

Establishment Democrats and their sycophants have been smearing him ever since, even though he was- and remains- the single most popular sitting politician in the United States today.

And the Democrats are still looking for someone to blame for losing the Presidency, the US House, the US Senate, 2/3 of all State governors, and 3/4 of all State Houses.

They don't need a circular firing squad; they've already committed political suicide.

 

[Fogdog]

Despite his overt racism and sexism that you like to point out?

Its your racism and sexism that I'm pointing out. This grandiose idea that anybody who voted other than your way was unable to make a decision in their own interest. I just posted an essay written by a black woman who gave her reasons why she didn't think Sanders was the best choice to her. She said she saw nothing wrong with his record or policy statement, she just said she didn't think he gave issues that are important to her enough attention. When I look at what the Justice Democrats have written on their website regarding policy, I think that same argument still holds for them.

And that's what this is about. It's not "sanders supporters racist and must be destroyed". There is a gap that needs to be filled or changes to be made in the movement regarding social justice and equality. Their policy page is lean on civil rights and social equality, heavy on financial interests. This isn't a stark difference, but the nuance is what I've read turns minority voters -- who are a majority in the Democratic party in some states -- to think they are again being told what's good for them without having a voice in what that is.

Do you agree with pad when he says "social justice warriors should be kicked to the curb"? Said otherwise, put social issues on the back burner?

 

[ttystikk]

Its your racism and sexism that I'm pointing out. This grandiose idea that anybody who voted other than you was unable to make a decision in their own interest. I just posted an essay written by a black woman who gave her reasons why she didn't think Sanders was the best choice to her. She said she saw nothing wrong with his record or policy statement, she just said she didn't think he gave issues that are important to her enough attention. When I look at what the Justice Democrats have written on their website regarding policy, I think that same argument still holds for them.

And that's what this is about. It's not "sanders supporters racist and must be destroyed". It's there is a gap that needs to be filled or changes to be made in the movement regarding social justice and equality. Their policy page is lean on civil rights and social equality, heavy on financial interests. This isn't a stark difference, but the nuance is what I've read turns minority voters -- who are a majority in the Democratic party in some states -- to think they are again being told what's good for them without having a voice in what that is.

Do you agree with pad when he says "social justice warriors should be kicked to the curb"? Said otherwise, put social issues on the back burner?

The Sanders campaign made the calculation that the best way to deal with issues of race discrimination was to work for financial equality. It was a nuanced approach that didn't resonate like they hoped.

They were counting on voters of color recognizing that the Democratic Party had done precious little for them, in spite of having the first black President- a Democrat- in office for 8 years.

But @st0wandgrow has a good point; you voted for Bernie, so why are you working so hard at smearing him now?

 

[abandonconflict]

Its your racism and sexism that I'm pointing out. This grandiose idea that anybody who voted other than your way was unable to make a decision in their own interest. I just posted an essay written by a black woman who gave her reasons why she didn't think Sanders was the best choice to her. She said she saw nothing wrong with his record or policy statement, she just said she didn't think he gave issues that are important to her enough attention. When I look at what the Justice Democrats have written on their website regarding policy, I think that same argument still holds for them.

And that's what this is about. It's not "sanders supporters racist and must be destroyed". There is a gap that needs to be filled or changes to be made in the movement regarding social justice and equality. Their policy page is lean on civil rights and social equality, heavy on financial interests. This isn't a stark difference, but the nuance is what I've read turns minority voters -- who are a majority in the Democratic party in some states -- to think they are again being told what's good for them without having a voice in what that is.

Do you agree with pad when he says "social justice warriors should be kicked to the curb"? Said otherwise, put social issues on the back burner?

You know he won't ever acknowledge it. He won't even admit that is the criticism being made.

 

[Fogdog]

The Sanders campaign made the calculation that the best way to deal with issues of race discrimination was to work for financial equality. It was a nuanced approach that didn't resonate like they hoped.

They were counting on voters of color recognizing that the Democratic Party had done precious little for them, in spite of having the first black President- a Democrat- in office for 8 years.

But @st0wandgrow has a good point; you voted for Bernie, so why are you working so hard at smearing him now?

My post was not about the past. The Sanders campaign ended about a year ago when he endorsed Clinton. I posted a well written essay by a black woman who explained her perspective and one that I can't speak for. I'm saying that the reasons she listed aren't well reflected in Justice Democrats policy statements.

I'm not smearing Bernie. And not smearing you or st0. I'm just pointing out that the stated belief that anybody who didn't vote for Sanders was unable to decide what is best for them is patronizing, racist, sexist, privileged thinking. In fact, beyond racist in that it dismisses everybody else who doesn't agree. It's about you, babe, not Bernie.

 

[Fogdog]

You know he won't ever acknowledge it. He won't even admit that is the criticism being made.

Not just him.

So, how have the people Bernie endorsed done in the only poll that matters?

 

[ttystikk]

My post was not about the past. The Sanders campaign ended about a year ago when he endorsed Clinton. I posted a well written essay by a black woman who explained her perspective and one that I can't speak for. I'm saying that the reasons she listed aren't well reflected in Justice Democrats policy statements.

I'm not smearing Bernie. And not smearing you or st0. I'm just pointing out that the stated belief that anybody who didn't vote for Sanders was unable to decide what is best for them is patronizing, racist, sexist, privileged thinking. In fact, beyond racist in that it dismisses everybody else who doesn't agree. It's about you, babe, not Bernie.

I didn't post that. For my part, I'm on record as saying he could have done a better and more direct job of appealing to non-white voters. No campaign is perfect.

Funny how these discussions completely fail to recognize what he's been doing SINCE November 8 of 2016.

 

[abandonconflict]

On record? Must be a broken record that never plays that part and only keeps repeating the same bullshit over and over about how Bernard is going to die for our sins and be resurrected 3 days later.

 

[ttystikk]

Not just him.

So, how have the people Bernie endorsed done in the only poll that matters?

Hey, how 'bout them Democrats? You know, the ones who have reduced themselves to irrelevancy across the nation as well as in Washington?

How's that sniping at popular politicians working out for ya?

From here, it's not looking good at all- so maybe instead of constantly boring and shanking and trying to find fault, just maybe it's time to open up the fucking process to new ideas.

But keep picking. I'm sure you'll feel better about being on a losing team.

 

[ttystikk]

On record? Must be a broken record that never plays that part and only keeps repeating the same bullshit over and over about how Bernard is going to die for our sins and be resurrected 3 days later.

Yet another stupid, shitty post.

How 'bout them Democrats, anyway?

Your opinion is worthless because you support no one and therefore have no solutions.

You're part of the problem, hypocrite.