Jypsy Dog
Well-Known Member
Soft water will FUCK UP YOUR PLANTS!!! The sodium levels create a deadly situation. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/plant-problems/environmental/softened-water-and-plants.htm
1 month plants - Checkup - Nitrogen Toxicity? - Ppm & Ph Dropping
- Thread starter BadlyDrawnBoy
- Start date
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
alright, well thanks guys. I'm going to change the water tomorrow, I think I'll do a plain water flush for 48 hours or so before adding nutes. I'll use unsoftened water. See if that clears it up. But I think they look pretty good so far too, I'm thankful I've gotten this far and they are doing as well as they are
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
Any ideas about why the ppm and ph are dropping simultaneously?
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
If the ppm is dropping, why are you adding fresh water? Usually that means that the plants are using more nutes than water and they want more nutes - higher ppm.
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
The ppm has been dropping, but not terribly much. It would go down maybe 10 points or so a day on it's own, a week before this one it was pretty stable...until I added fresh water, which would always lower the ppm, and then the next day that i didn't add water, the ppm drop would be more substantial...which makes sense, since I'm diluating the res. That's true though, that is a sure way for me to know the plants are hungry and not over satiated. Mainly I was just topping off every other day, and it was nice using plain water over ph up to raise the ph to the desired level. Do you by chance know why the ph has been dropping also, and at times by a lot? This morning it had dropped to 4.8 from 5.8 the previous morning. and the day before that nearly the same.
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
What are your roots looking like?
Illies1982
Member
There fine. looks to be a there well fed a little nitrogen burn isn't bad. at least you know they are getting everything they need. if worried cut nutes in half next time you feed them.
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
If your ppm is dropping, don't add fresh water. This means that it needs a higher nute strength, not water. I let mine drop by about 100 ppm before I make an adjustment. For my system (56 gallons) I've figured out how much A and B to add to bump it up that 100 ppm. I take 5 gallons of nutes from the rez, mix in the additional A, then B - then pH that 5 gallons and slowly add it to your rez.
If your ppm goes the other way - and rises, it either means that the nute strength is too high and it needs some water to dilute it down a bit, or that there is a lot of evaporation going on - like when it's hot or low humidity. In either case, this is when it wants water only.
Start there and see how it reacts over a week. When roots are breaking down it will also cause a consistently dropping pH. Not always by any means, but something to watch for.
If your ppm goes the other way - and rises, it either means that the nute strength is too high and it needs some water to dilute it down a bit, or that there is a lot of evaporation going on - like when it's hot or low humidity. In either case, this is when it wants water only.
Start there and see how it reacts over a week. When roots are breaking down it will also cause a consistently dropping pH. Not always by any means, but something to watch for.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
Looks more like a P toxicity, if anything, and not enough magnesium. Too much phosphorous will burn the plants because the roots can only use so much before the plant ends up yellowing/browning. Let it go too long like that and you will end up with more leaves on the floor than your plant. Cut back on feeding, add a little CalMag and keep an eye on her. This will pass 
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
He's using well water pre-water softener. He's got plenty of ca/mg now. He was using softened water before...Looks more like a P toxicity, if anything, and not enough magnesium. Too much phosphorous will burn the plants because the roots can only use so much before the plant ends up yellowing/browning. Let it go too long like that and you will end up with more leaves on the floor than your plant. Cut back on feeding, add a little CalMag and keep an eye on her. This will pass
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
Roger that, the plants look great otherwise, we nearly always get some tip burn during late veg/early flower. Monsters r us
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
The roots look great, no odd smells or discoloration, very white and healthy looking, and filling the bucket nicely. Amazing how much root mass there is in only a month. I almost cannot imagine what it will look like by the time I'm ready to harvest! At some point it seems the roots will be filling the bucket so full and taking up so much mass, a gallon of water will overflow the bucket!
That makes sense. I changed the res this morning, used water straight from the well before softener, fed 2ml per liter (veg strength), and ph'd to 5.8. Ph is staying pretty steady right now, rising only slightly.
My tent humidity is near perfect, resting around 60%.
Ppm's read above 500, they read about 50-75 more since this morning when I changed the res. The last two readings I took it is holding near steady, only jumping up a bit. If it continues to rise I'll add some plain water.
I'm hoping I won't need to feed in between res changes, I'd like to just change the res every week or two and feed only during the change. I know now though if the ppm is dropping I should be feeding more. Probably I wouldn't see a ppm drop of more than 100 in a week, so that may be alright feeding only at res changes.
If I shouldn't add just plain water, if the ppms are stable or dropping, should I not top off the res then when the plant has been drinking and the water level is falling?
I really appreciate all the help and advice guys
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FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
You top off with nutes at the strength that you want your rez to be - if the level has gone down and the ppm has stayed steady. This is when you have it dialed in just right. Let's say that today you're at 500 - and in 2 days it's 400 - then it wants to be higher than 500 - you'd maybe bump it up to 600 and watch it for a few more days. When you give it what it wants, it'll stay steady.The roots look great, no odd smells or discoloration, very white and healthy looking, and filling the bucket nicely. Amazing how much root mass there is in only a month. I almost cannot imagine what it will look like by the time I'm ready to harvest! At some point it seems the roots will be filling the bucket so full and taking up so much mass, a gallon of water will overflow the bucket!
That makes sense. I changed the res this morning, used water straight from the well before softener, fed 2ml per liter (veg strength), and ph'd to 5.8. Ph is staying pretty steady right now, rising only slightly.
My tent humidity is near perfect, resting around 60%.
Ppm's read above 500, they read about 50-75 more since this morning when I changed the res. The last two readings I took it is holding near steady, only jumping up a bit. If it continues to rise I'll add some plain water.
I'm hoping I won't need to feed in between res changes, I'd like to just change the res every week or two and feed only during the change. I know now though if the ppm is dropping I should be feeding more. Probably I wouldn't see a ppm drop of more than 100 in a week, so that may be alright feeding only at res changes.
If I shouldn't add just plain water, if the ppms are stable or dropping, should I not top off the res then when the plant has been drinking and the water level is falling?
I really appreciate all the help and advice guys
If it keeps going up - if you are positive that it's not due to evaporation - then you'll want to only add water and get the ppm below 500 - to maybe 400 - and then monitor.
So - ppm's going up - nutes too strong. Dilute with water until the ppm is lower than it was originally. Monitor.
- ppm's going down - Nutes too weak. Bump up ppm's with nutes higher ppm than the rez - until it's higher than it was originally. Monitor
- ppm's steady but level dropping - Just right. Add fresh nutes at the same ppm level as the rez. Monitor
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
Alright that makes sense. So I'd be estimating how much water I want to add to the res, have that estimated amount of water in a container, and then add nutes to it to reach desired ppm to match that of the res.
Yeah I really wouldn't think it's evaporation. The water level stayed pretty much the same level for the first 2 weeks of the plant life, before the plant was really drinking much, and nothing has changed temp or humdiity wise in the tent, so if it wasn't evaporating then, it isn't now.
It's interesting, my well water (before filtration and softener), which I'm using right now, is lower ppm than the water after filtration and softener. I guess if it was the filter alone, the ppm would be lower, but since the softener is adding chemicals to the water, the ppm is higher.
The plants seem to be responding well to the res change. They still show the same symptoms i mentioned and showed in photos, but seem to have perked up just a bit, like there is more life in them.
Is there a time window after feeding where the ppm will fluctuate a bit? Or is the reading right after adding nutes the reading it will be 24 hours later, basically?... given nothing external is there to alter the water.
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
The filter would just trap sediment which doesn't contribute to ppm. ppm is really just reading how much current can pass through a given space. The more dissociated ions in the water, the more current it can pass. Like when you mix NaCl in water it dissociates into Na+ and Cl- - all those free + and - ions are what conduct the current and impact the ppm reading. Sediment is stuff that's already reacted and bound to something else and has no + or - charge.
Does your softener backwash and regenerate on a regular schedule and do you have a brine tank with salt pellets in it? Since it exchanges ions 1 for 1 with like charges, the ppm should be the same going out as coming in. I wouldn't worry about it if it IS backwashing and drawing brine. If it isn't, then you'd want to look at that anyhow.
Yeah, it's going to take a couple of days to tell how the plants are affecting the rez. So, whatever it is after you add it, is what is should still be in 2 days, with only a small drop in level. Definitely give it a couple of days to monitor it after each change.
Does your softener backwash and regenerate on a regular schedule and do you have a brine tank with salt pellets in it? Since it exchanges ions 1 for 1 with like charges, the ppm should be the same going out as coming in. I wouldn't worry about it if it IS backwashing and drawing brine. If it isn't, then you'd want to look at that anyhow.
Yeah, it's going to take a couple of days to tell how the plants are affecting the rez. So, whatever it is after you add it, is what is should still be in 2 days, with only a small drop in level. Definitely give it a couple of days to monitor it after each change.
dirtWeevil
Well-Known Member
i always just top off the res as it uses water, though that's just my preference, i don't have time but if you can do what was recommended above and refresh the nutes you'll get the best results id imagine. i change the tank the same day every week for the most part.
Try just kinda not worrying about it for a week and see how it looks, sometimes the wart causes worry, sometimes worry causes the wart.
the water softener is a variable i don't have here, but you can test that by gettin a few jugs of ro bottled water and mix a tank with it and see if you get the same readings/problems
Try just kinda not worrying about it for a week and see how it looks, sometimes the wart causes worry, sometimes worry causes the wart.
the water softener is a variable i don't have here, but you can test that by gettin a few jugs of ro bottled water and mix a tank with it and see if you get the same readings/problems
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
We have a brine tank with salt pellets, I don't think the water is backwashed, but emptied into the irrigation ditch running on the floor along the walls of our basement.
I'll keep an eye on it and see where it's at in a few days. So far it's staying level now. Thanks for the help
Not worrying about something for a week that is on my mind is like asking me to do without water for a week LOL. Not concerning myself over everything that doesn't need to be concerned over will be a task I'm working on up until my dying day.
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
During normal operation the exchange ca/mg for Na. During backwash, it draws in brine solution, soaking the resin beads inside, kicking off the ca/mg and recharging it with Na. If for some reason it doesn't backwash, the resin beads will be full and won't work again until it's recharged.
Usually they are set to backwash at night. There should be a mechanism on the head to set the backwash timer.
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
It's set on "conditioned water" setting. I'm not familiar with the machine or what each setting does. Should it be on the backwash setting?
BadlyDrawnBoy
Active Member
Some updated photos. Still yellowing in places, drooping does seem a bit better. The plant with yellowing new leaves is a sativa strain.
Any chance it could be a sulfur deficiency?
I switched it to 12/12 yesterday, so this is the first day of flowering now.
Any chance it could be a sulfur deficiency?
I switched it to 12/12 yesterday, so this is the first day of flowering now.