Best LED for 3x3 flowering

[Devilsplant]

That is what I'd like to think. Some brands are good, some are crap, some are good but overpriced, just like with anything. When people in this thread are saying DIY is the only way to go, it just leaves me skeptical. Though I admit, either way, it incentivized me to do some research and now I have a better understanding of what I am buying.

Platinum LEDs P4-XML2 uses 100x3w and 8x10w CREE XM-L2. I guess the question for me here is, are the COB options better than a bunch of 3w? Another thing I am iffy on with this light, is the options it offers in terms of veg and bloom. It seems to me that this is a bad option to have if I am looking for a light purely for blooming. Aka theres 93 watts of 'veg lighting' that is going to waste.

I think the 400w Vero setup from Timber is appealing as well, as it's in the similar price range. This also seems to have the avantage of customization, ie if a part breaks, I can replace it myself.

If youre looking for a broad range of quality spectrum, check out https://chilledgrowlights.com/

They have Built and DIY routes

Has the #s and Facts a skeptic like yourself might get behind.

 

[Yodaweed]

Get a 315 CMH, it will knock the socks off any LED when it comes to quality , and it's a great yielder too.

 

[Yodaweed]

If youre looking for a broad range of quality spectrum, check out https://chilledgrowlights.com/

They have Built and DIY routes

Has the #s and Facts a skeptic like yourself might get behind.

Those aren't really broad spectrum or quality spectrum, they are just normal white LEDs that lack IR and UV light, they will never compare to full spectrum lights. Not to mention they are incredibly over priced.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Ok...I'll bite. What is a CMH? This is the first I'm hearing of it. How does it do with light vs heat efficiency? One of the main appeals of LED to me is not having my tent go above 80 degrees without ridiculous venting setups, and not having to buy new bulbs every 6 months. It seems like a lot of different LED brands can out perform HPS from what I've seen on youtube, but I guess those 'tests' should be taken with a grain of salt?

 

[Nutria]

It seems like your info come from the manufacturer websites, you focus on what to buy before understanding what leds are.
In a diy fixture u design it for you growspace, you have multiple light sources giving an even light output. You can get 8 cobs or 4 cobs or how many u want, you dont worry about hotspots anymore. You can understand why a compact commercial fixture is different. Beeing more efficient is the main reason btw, at least for me, no more bullshit and commercials about the real wattage drain.
Do you know what does PPFD mean?

If youre in the US you can also get kits for diy without braking your bank account.

 

[Yodaweed]

Ok...I'll bite. What is a CMH? This is the first I'm hearing of it. How does it do with light vs heat efficiency? One of the main appeals of LED to me is not having my tent go above 80 degrees without ridiculous venting setups, and not having to buy new bulbs every 6 months. It seems like a lot of different LED brands can out perform HPS from what I've seen on youtube, but I guess those 'tests' should be taken with a grain of salt?

Heat is based on watts used, not the type of light you are using, 1 watt of any light source = 3.41 BTU

CMH = ceramic metal halide, they run about 315 watts, which is around 1,075 BTU.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Heat is based on watts used, not the type of light you are using, 1 watt of any light source = 3.41 BTU

CMH = ceramic metal halide, they run about 315 watts, which is around 1,075 BTU.

Um...false? At least partially? I won't claim to be an expert on the subject as clearly I am learning my stuff still through this conversation, but its pretty 101 that HPS lights output much more heat. A 600w hps light in my 3x3 would require far far more ventilation setup than my current LED. Would a 600w output LED cause just as much heat? Maybe, but if nothing else you're suggestion is misleading based on something that might be technically true. Aka, nobody needs 600w of LED in a 3x3 grow space because they are more efficient.

 

[Yodaweed]

Um...false? At least partially? I won't claim to be an expert on the subject as clearly I am learning my stuff still through this conversation, but its pretty 101 that HPS lights output much more heat. A 600w hps light in my 3x3 would require far far more ventilation setup than my current LED. Would a 600w output LED cause just as much heat? Maybe, but if nothing else you're suggestion is misleading based on something that might be technically true. Aka, nobody needs 600w of LED in a 3x3 grow space because they are more efficient.

HPS outputs no more heat than any other light of equal wattage, 1000w of HID will output 3410 BTU, same as 1000w of LED, all energy gets converted to heat eventually so the only thing that matters is how much energy you put into the system.

First law of thermodynamics, not something i just made up or can change at my will.

Also i am not being deceptive or trying to mislead you, i'm trying to teach you.

If you are looking for a really good LED for 3x3 and must have LED here's a good one that can cover that area well

http://timbergrowlights.com/400-watt-vero29-v7-square-framework/

 

[Hybridway]

Um...false? At least partially? I won't claim to be an expert on the subject as clearly I am learning my stuff still through this conversation, but its pretty 101 that HPS lights output much more heat. A 600w hps light in my 3x3 would require far far more ventilation setup than my current LED. Would a 600w output LED cause just as much heat? Maybe, but if nothing else you're suggestion is misleading based on something that might be technically true. Aka, nobody needs 600w of LED in a 3x3 grow space because they are more efficient.

It's about the light you get for the heat produced. He's right in that they all throw off about equal amounts of heat.
Even more so w/ many LEDs cuz the driver (ballast) is inside the light often times & HPS hoods can be vented.
Many guys here aren't in a sealed room so they feel their LEDs are cooler.

 

[SchweeDubz]

@Yodaweed Lol, the point you are trying to prove, while possibly correct, does not help me draw a proper conclusion. "All energy gets converted to heat eventually" Yeah, emphasis on eventually. LEDs are clearly more efficient when 250-400w of LED covers a 3x3 grow space, when that same grow space needs 600w of HID. So, ok, 1 watt produces the same amount of heat, fine, but how much light does it produce?

And @Nutria you are basically correct. I wasn't planning on learning the full run down on how LED lights work. Unfortunately, the business is still new, there's a lot of bs to sift through, and even people without a motive, only trying to help, still have very differing opinions. I would prefer not to learn every detail of how my car works when I buy it but I can't argue that knowledge is power.With this field, I am going to have to know my stuff in order to avoid getting scammed.

 

[Yodaweed]

@Yodaweed Lol, the point you are trying to prove, while possibly correct, does not help me draw a proper conclusion. "All energy gets converted to heat eventually" Yeah, emphasis on eventually. LEDs are clearly more efficient when 250-400w of LED covers a 3x3 grow space, when that same grow space needs 600w of HID. So, ok, 1 watt produces the same amount of heat, fine, but how much light does it produce?

And @Nutria you are basically correct. I wasn't planning on learning the full run down on how LED lights work. Unfortunately, the business is still new, there's a lot of bs to sift through, and even people without a motive, only trying to help, still have very differing opinions. I would prefer not to learn every detail of how my car works when I buy it but I can't argue that knowledge is power.With this field, I am going to have to know my stuff in order to avoid getting scammed.

That's fine, but 400w of HPS covers a 3x3, 600w hps covers a 4x4, 1000w hps covers 5x5 or 6x4 depending on reflector. 315 CMH covers 3x3 as well and only runs 315 watts. Just trying to give you the actual facts, not bloated lies from people trying to sell you a light. Oh and i have experience with all the lights i have talked about, actual grow experience with logs , pictures , etc....

 

[SchweeDubz]

That's fine, but 400w of HPS covers a 3x3, 600w hps covers a 4x4, 1000w hps covers 5x5 or 6x4 depending on reflector. 315 CMH covers 3x3 as well and only runs 315 watts. Just trying to give you the actual facts, not bloated lies from people trying to sell you a light. Oh and i have experience with all the lights i have talked about, actual grow experience with logs , pictures , etc....

Of course, and I appreciate it, but you get what I am trying to say here right? If I listened to your suggestion alone, I'd be led to believe that there's no difference between LED and HID heating, which isn't true. You're stating a fact but omitting the more important part, in my opinion, about light output. I don't know the exact factually correct way to state it, but 1w of LED produces equal heat, but over twice as much light? The growmou5 video series mentions that HID is approx 35% light output, and 65% heat, while an efficient LED setup can reverse those numbers. That, to me, seems to be a far more important factor than understanding that 1w produces the same amount of heat...right?

 

[Yodaweed]

Of course, and I appreciate it, but you get what I am trying to say here right? If I listened to your suggestion alone, I'd be led to believe that there's no difference between LED and HID heating, which isn't true. You're stating a fact but omitting the more important part, in my opinion, about light output. I don't know the exact factually correct way to state it, but 1w of LED produces equal heat, but over twice as much light? The growmou5 video series mentions that HID is approx 35% light output, and 65% heat, while an efficient LED setup can reverse those numbers. That, to me, seems to be a far more important factor than understanding that 1w produces the same amount of heat...right?

No LED produces twice as much light as a decent quality HPS, you need at least 75% of the best quality LEDs to even get the same results as a decent quality HPS. Most suggest using a watt for watt even amount to not be disappointed.


Here's some examples of how much light these produce

400w HPS = 130 PAR watts


400w vero7 fixture = 190 PAR watts

http://timbergrowlights.com/400-watt-vero29-v7-square-framework/

300w cree cxb3590 fixture = 125 PAR watts

http://timbergrowlights.com/300-watt-cree-cxb3590-square-framework/

300w citizen clu048 fixture = 145 PAR watts


http://timbergrowlights.com/300-watt-citizen-clu048-3x3-framework/

 

[SchweeDubz]

Ok, so I am still unclear as to why you're recommending HPS when you say, right in your last post, that 400w of HPS is 130 PAR watts, while 400w of LED is 190 PAR watts. What am I missing here? Is it an issue of spectrum covered?

Speaking of spectrum, I wanted to point out that the G8 450 Bloom light claims "G8LED has formulated the most efficient color ratio with 8 bands of the color spectrum from 380nm to 780nm, including Ultraviolet (UV), Infrared (IR), and 6000K white." Are they full of BS? I am still not sure exactly what the ideal spectrum is in general. I originally thought 'burple' was the ideal situation. Then I heard the best for blooming is 3k. Now I am hearing today that LED doesn't cover UV. Then G8 claims it does. Man!

 

[Yodaweed]

Ok, so I am still unclear as to why you're recommending HPS when you say, right in your last post, that 400w of HPS is 130 PAR watts, while 400w of LED is 190 PAR watts. What am I missing here? Is it an issue of spectrum covered?

Speaking of spectrum, I wanted to point out that the G8 450 Bloom light claims "G8LED has formulated the most efficient color ratio with 8 bands of the color spectrum from 380nm to 780nm, including Ultraviolet (UV), Infrared (IR), and 6000K white." Are they full of BS? I am still not sure exactly what the ideal spectrum is in general. I originally thought 'burple' was the ideal situation. Then I heard the best for blooming is 3k. Now I am hearing today that LED doesn't cover UV. Then G8 claims it does. Man!

I wouldn't use blurple lights they are the worst, i'm suggesting a 315 CMH not a HPS, that CMH will rock your 3x3 socks off and will grow the best quality you ever could get out of that area for a reasonable price. Good luck and happy growing.

 

[SchweeDubz]

So is 300w of CMH going to produce the exact same amount of heat as a 300w LED? As in, I wouldn't need to change my venting situation whatsoever (assuming the wattage is the same)? There is also the factor of changing the bulbs. And what is it about CMH that makes it a better choice over LED? Is it the spectrum issue. Are there not LED equivalents that hit the necessary spectrum?

 

[madininagyal]

I wouldn't mind some assembly, but it seems like deciding what to buy gets much more complex with this route. The options on Timbergrowlights are reading like a foreign language heh. Not that I'm opposed to doing some research, but perhaps you could point me in the right direction? Which types of LED lights are best for flowering? Any good guides that cover the entire process? Thanks.

Just look a growmau5 vidéo on YouTube and im sure you Will be making an order for parts on rapidled.com (best price at this time) and for 500$ you can make a unit that Will be far far far better than the unit you want To buy

 

[SchweeDubz]

Just look a growmau5 vidéo on YouTube and im sure you Will be making an order for parts on rapidled.com (best price at this time) and for 500$ you can make a unit that Will be far far far better than the unit you want To buy

I don't think I disagree! Heh. Would you say the price is better than say timbergrowlights? I've been essentially researching this all day but I still have a lot more to do I think. I started googling their components separately but it seems like some of the pieces aren't readily available on say amazon or even cobkits. I am also still new to this (obviously) so I need to make sure I am buying the correct combination of supplies in terms of power, coverage, and spectrum. I have been watching growmou5 and will continue to do so!

 

[madininagyal]

Get a 315 CMH, it will knock the socks off any LED when it comes to quality , and it's a great yielder too.

Sometimes i cant agree with you lol cmh give better quality??? You mean more harvest?? Because if is that you need To tchek the latest led grow , just saw the result of a friend using 4 vero29 in a 4x4 and getting more than 400g of pure quality of meatbreath, the terp are insane

Ps: my meatbreath is a low yielder , i cant wait To see what Cooper chem and tombstone Will give him since they are big yielder from the rewiew have read

 

[SoOLED]

So is 300w of CMH going to produce the exact same amount of heat as a 300w LED? As in, I wouldn't need to change my venting situation whatsoever (assuming the wattage is the same)? There is also the factor of changing the bulbs. And what is it about CMH that makes it a better choice over LED? Is it the spectrum issue. Are there not LED equivalents that hit the necessary spectrum?

for a 3x3 anything you want really, CHM is not a bad choice. you could veg to flower with a 3k bulb; or veg in 4k and switch to 3k in flower. the bulbs are really easy to change.
spec wise, CMH have UB/V's and far reds, even great greens. TBH, CMH is the best light to take photos; its like sunlight.

in a 3x3 I don't think you could go wrong with anything you hang in there, it would be more about min-maxing all the details.