Plants from seed vs Clones

[BobCajun]

I've noticed that when I stick a seed plant in with a bunch of clones te seed plant takes way longer to start flowering, even though most weed plants supposedly are able to flower at about 3 weeks growth and mine had to be at least a good 4-5 weeks, had been topped and grew back. Not only that but I also noticed that the seed plant buds often come out loose and airy while clones from them come out with normal high high density. So in short, seed plants aren't worth flowering out and expecting to see what the strain will look like as clones or getting usable product off it. And that's indoors under controlled conditions.

Some strains will look about the same as seed plants or clones but many apparently won't or would take fucking forever to reach that point, like probably about 12-14 weeks of flowering or a lengthy veg period before starting flowering, if that would even help. I let some bastard Chrystal seed plants go for almost 11 weeks and still shit for buds, got fuckall weight off them even though the stems were thick. Clones from the same plants, budding right up fast and look like they'll dense up. Chrystal is known for high yields and high calyx ratio so it's definitely not normal for them to put out air buds with over 10 weeks flowering, and still not even look as good as most clones at 8 weeks. Seed plants are just fuckung useless other than for getting clones from, in my opinion.

Haven't actually seen the finished clone buds yet though so could possibly turn out fluffy but I think it's unlikely. Four different seed plants, all different phenos, all fluffy? Something wrong there. That strain is almost pure NL5. How's NL5 gonna be fluffy? In fact, if you flowered seed plants looking for good phenos you might just think it's a shit strain and not bother keeping it, when the clones may have been considerably different.

 

[jarvild]

I've always found that a seed plant will produce a little better than my cuttings. Not a big discrepancy but there is some.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I have always yielded better from seed than a first clone run from a seed plant I grew.

And the the genetics are the same in a seed plant and its clone so it's results can be the same.

You do have to grow a seed plant through the seedling stage so the clones can be a few weeks or more older to start.

If I grow a seed plant to maturity and flower after I see female pre flowers it buds sooner than if I put it in say in 3 weeks from sprout. It will finish maturing before it flowers so it could take a couple more weeks to finish.


As far as density or other details. That is genetic or in the hands of the grower and his lights and environment.

 

[BobCajun]

I don't know, maybe they were just too young. I just haven't had much luck with seed plants. Don't seem to flower near as well as clones, at least many strains, some are very similar.

You know, few people grow hops from seeds because, just like Cannabis, it's too variable from seed. You can get hop seeds but few competent growers ever use them. It's all clones, root cuttings, whatever. The only reason Cannabis seeds are so popular is that they're legal to sell in many countries, particularly UK, and convenient to ship. So they're common as shit but really not that good a deal all things considered.

GG4 is an example of how a good plant should be sold. It comes down to the single plant being desirable or not. The strain is too general a thing to go by. Could take you 1000 seeds to find something like the GG4 pheno. Granted there's probably better ones than the clone that they sell now, considering it foxtails like a mofo, good trich genetics in that pheno though. Only thing is, you can't ship them, at least not any great distance. Within a country you could do it, I've bought rooted clones in the mail before in-country. Turned out to be shit but so it goes, most weed related stuff sold by mail is.

 

[jarvild]

Seeds= pheno hunting
Cuttings= consistency.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Well bred seeds usually only produce a few phenotypes. I have had consistent results from feminized seeds in quality and yield for years now.

I have kept a few clones I really liked but always ditch them as a new seed plant always ends up as good or better.


But I want the variety and I don't use breeders trying to release new crosses constantly to compete with the strain of the week mentality. I stick to classic strains and breeders.

 

[jarvild]

Well bred seeds usually only produce a few phenotypes. I have had consistent results from feminized seeds in quality and yield for years now.

I have kept a few clones I really liked but always ditch them as a new seed plant always ends up as good or better.


But I want the variety and I don't use breeders trying to release new crosses constantly to compete with the strain of the week mentality. I stick to classic strains and breeders.

Well bred seeds can be hard to find now a days with all the pollen chucking out there to make a buck.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

Goof info--Ive noticed that clones seem to flower faster like you say above, but haven't particularly been aware that there is any better or denser buds at the end of the grow, the ability to choose from a bunch of plants which one to clone automatically ensures that clones are selectively the best you have got. whereas if you grow out a pack of seeds then you may still get a wide range of phenos, some of which are tall lanky specimens, some of which are fluffy buds

Fluffy buds are usually a symptom of low light ,eg growing under a 250W say, when a 400W would produce noticeably more fluffy buds, but looks to me you would already know that so I'm sure light isn't the problem.

 

[Cletus clem]

No seed=no breed!!!
I also prefer starting from seed for the pheno hunt (its fun and i like data) and genetic verification. I get my seeds from reputable breeders through a reputable broker and keep my breeder packs. Not taking someones word for it unless they do the same. If i fuck around with bag seed or get a cut of something thats not verifiable, its a single run, one and done. i prefer to work with clones but the first run from seed is exciting to me. I have to say though i havnt noticed difference in density or anything noticable as to onset of flower. They both have their place, just a matter of what your goal is

 

[MrStickyScissors]

i go with the cuttings to save time unless your pheno hunting

 

[MrStickyScissors]

seeds are a bitch. gotta babyem, through some cuttings right under the thouwow

 

[BobCajun]

Goof info--Ive noticed that clones seem to flower faster like you say above, but haven't particularly been aware that there is any better or denser buds at the end of the grow, the ability to choose from a bunch of plants which one to clone automatically ensures that clones are selectively the best you have got. whereas if you grow out a pack of seeds then you may still get a wide range of phenos, some of which are tall lanky specimens, some of which are fluffy buds

Fluffy buds are usually a symptom of low light ,eg growing under a 250W say, when a 400W would produce noticeably more fluffy buds, but looks to me you would already know that so I'm sure light isn't the problem.

Mine had plenty of light and another strain in the same space that were clones flowered normally. With this particular strain, Chrystal, the seed plants just drag their flowering way out and the buds looked like shit. Weird thing is, the stems were large, as if to support heavy buds, but there weren't any to support. It totally sucked. The clone plants better not turn out like that or I'll be seriously pissed at Nirvana. They may have had dense buds "at the end of the grow" as you said, but I already gave them 10.5 weeks and had other plants that had to go in that chamber so couldn't go any longer. They may have densed up after 12 weeks or more but who has that much time? Looked to me like they were maybe 7 weeks in. They did take much longer to start budding than the clones that were with them. I was like when are these fuckers gonna start budding?

 

[Cletus clem]

Mine had plenty of light and another strain in the same space that were clones flowered normally. With this particular strain, Chrystal, the seed plants just drag their flowering way out and the buds looked like shit. Weird thing is, the stems were large, as if to support heavy buds, but there weren't any to support. It totally sucked. The clone plants better not turn out like that or I'll be seriously pissed at Nirvana. They may have had dense buds "at the end of the grow" as you said, but I already gave them 10.5 weeks and had other plants that had to go in that chamber so couldn't go any longer. They may have densed up after 12 weeks or more but who has that much time? Looked to me like they were maybe 7 weeks in. They did take much longer to start budding than the clones that were with them. I was like when are these fuckers gonna start budding?

Maybe a problem with the roots?

 

[BobCajun]

Maybe a problem with the roots?

I don't know, it was just weird. You can't depend on a seed plant to flower normally. It might, it might not.

 

[Da2ra]

This is why I always make my selections from the clones and not the seed plants. I've thrown away great plants because the seed version wasn't as good as the second run.

I've read that some sativa growers actually grow the seeds out and take cuttings and throw away the seed plant to be able to better maintain the stretch, and reduce flower time. I think I read that in a Ace seeds thread.

 

[BobCajun]

This is why I always make my selections from the clones and not the seed plants. I've thrown away great plants because the seed version wasn't as good as the second run.

I've read that some sativa growers actually grow the seeds out and take cuttings and throw away the seed plant to be able to better maintain the stretch, and reduce flower time. I think I read that in a Ace seeds thread.

Exactly what I'm talking about. You could throw away a perfectly good strain if you only judged it from the seed plant. In fact I think I probably did a few times before I figured it out.

 

[cat of curiosity]

Exactly what I'm talking about. You could throw away a perfectly good strain if you only judged it from the seed plant. In fact I think I probably did a few times before I figured it out.

even at six months veg, virgins go slow. cuttings almost always perform better than the original. seed grown make better mothers, imo and e...

 

[BobCajun]

even at six months veg, virgins go slow. cuttings almost always perform better than the original. seed grown make better mothers, imo and e...

So you find a seed plant works better for clones than a clone of a clone? Interesting. I've noticed some clones from my seed plant look better than others. They're not all uniform because they came from different parts of the seed plant, some parts younger or older than others and more or less perfectly formed. I figure I better find the most perfect looking clone and use it as the new mother. I'll keep the seed plant going a while more though for more clones.

Growing under 23/1 light cycle, the mother still has no flowers at the nodes, even the highest ones, while clones I got from it have them after just a few weeks growth. That's the main difference I can see. Something seems to be preventing any flowers at all from appearing on the seed plant under that long a day length. It's still not very big though, the stem is still only the thickness of a pencil. I keep cutting it back for clones so no branch ever really had time to get old enough I guess.

 

[northrengrows]

Hey Bob,

I believe your thinking is correct. The clones you are taking are older then the new growth on the plant that came from seed, had they have been left on the seed plant they may be slightly farther along and showing pre-flowers due to the added stress of growing new roots.

Personally i am in the camp for using seed to pheno hunt then clone off that seed plant. I often do clone of clone of clone and so on. This allows me to keep genetics without needing a mother plant. Has always worked for me have a Pineapple Express from G13 labs i grew form seed over 4 years ago, never kept a mother all clones of clones, comes out owesome every time!

 

[jbcCT]

I don't know, it was just weird. You can't depend on a seed plant to flower normally. It might, it might not.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with that. I grow from seed all the time because I have the time and if it's a girl it always flowers, very nicely. You do get variations within a strain but that's normal and I find that very interesting, part of the fun, they still flower though.