Organic Growing: An Introductory Guide

Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Crab meal being sold for garden purposes is crab shell meal, they use the meat for food industry, and the left over shell by product is sold as fertilizer.

So the reason why we add gypsum to a soil that already has other things supplying them is because of two things. 1. What gypsum is (calcium sulfate)
2. And how gypsum releases calcium sulfate

Gypsum releases calcium sulfate through a sort of precipitation type process (sorry dog, you're gonna have to hit up a chemistry book if you want a more scientific description lol).

But basically it releases very small amounts, for a long period, and is not dramatically effected by weathering (watering) and is not prone to leeching (wasted nutrients).

This gives you a small amount of plant uptakeable calcium sulfate every time you water, and here is the beauty of it. The highly water soluble plant uptakeable calcium sulfate likes to split up and go pick up friends. The sulfate will find bound up magnesium particles in the soil and form highly uptakeable magnesium sulfate. The calcium will find bound up phosphates and absorb them to make highly uptakeable calcium phosphate. So now you've increased your uptake of phosphorus and magnesium along with your calcium and sulfur. Every time you water.

Not to mention multiple field tests where crops fertilized with gypsum consistently out performed those that weren't.
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Not sure about your precipitation theory.
For example, calcium phosphate is bone -- and it's not available to the plant until it is "digested" by soil fungi. Lots of slow-release calcium & phosphorous.
Crab shell also contains a shitload of calcium.
You aren't getting anything from gypsum that isn't already in your mix. Specifically, calcium & sulfur.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Not sure about your precipitation theory.
For example, calcium phosphate is bone -- and it's not available to the plant until it is "digested" by soil fungi. Lots of slow-release calcium & phosphorous.
Crab shell also contains a shitload of calcium.
You aren't getting anything from gypsum that isn't already in your mix. Specifically, calcium & sulfur.
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Respectfully friend, I don't have a precipitation theory. You can look up in a textbook how gypsum releases calcium sulfate into the soil.

And bones do provide slow release calcium phosphate this is true.

But a free calcium ion will draw in phosphorus anions (it's why blacksmiths use limestone to pull phosphorus out of steel), to create a more readily uptakeable form of calcium phosphate, that doesn't need to be eaten up by fungi.

Just because you have one thing in your soil that supplies something, doesn't mean you shouldn't have others that do as well. You just need to use diversity when it comes to how they work.

Fish Bone meal and bone meal are redundant because they supply the same things the same way. But crab meal and fish bone meal aren't because they supply the same things but in a different manner.

Lime and oyster shell flour can be redundant, but either of those things and gypsum wouldn't be.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Respectfully friend, I don't have a precipitation theory. You can look up in a textbook how gypsum releases calcium sulfate into the soil.

And bones do provide slow release calcium phosphate this is true.

But a free calcium ion will draw in phosphorus anions (it's why blacksmiths use limestone to pull phosphorus out of steel), to create a more readily uptakeable form of calcium phosphate, that doesn't need to be eaten up by fungi.

Just because you have one thing in your soil that supplies something, doesn't mean you shouldn't have others that do as well. You just need to use diversity when it comes to how they work.

Fish Bone meal and bone meal are redundant because they supply the same things the same way. But crab meal and fish bone meal aren't because they supply the same things but in a different manner.

Lime and oyster shell flour can be redundant, but either of those things and gypsum wouldn't be.
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How do crab & fish bone meal release calcium phosphate differently?
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
I will try that, but you didn't answer my question.
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I only answer what I feel I can comfortably articulate.

The simplest explanation I feel I can give is that their calcium carbonate content is very different. And the availability of their contents and the amount of time they provide fertilization differ.

You can run tests running four plants, one without either, one with fbm, one with cm, and one with both.

Take a soil test once every two weeks of each one. The results will be obvious I promise you, the test will show you the finer details.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
I only answer what I feel I can comfortably articulate.

The simplest explanation I feel I can give is that their calcium carbonate content is very different. And the availability of their contents and the amount of time they provide fertilization differ.

You can run tests running four plants, one without either, one with fbm, one with cm, and one with both.

Take a soil test once every two weeks of each one. The results will be obvious I promise you, the test will show you the finer details.
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Thanks for the info!
I'm not trying to break your balls.
I'm just wary of "bro science". Many recommendations on RIU are either superfluous or downright harmful.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Thanks for the info!
I'm not trying to break your balls.
I'm just wary of "bro science". Many recommendations on RIU are either superfluous or downright harmful.
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Bro science is a bane against us all! This initial post was a shot against bro science related to super soil! But it was over a year ago and now there's some of my own info that I need to go through and debunk. Lol
 
Vato_504

Vato_504

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Bro science is a bane against us all! This initial post was a shot against bro science related to super soil! But it was over a year ago and now there's some of my own info that I need to go through and debunk. Lol
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What's up fam hope all is well and growing trees. I was wondering the best way to get the roots outta my pots to use my soil again. Thanks
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Vato_504 said:
What's up fam hope all is well and growing trees. I was wondering the best way to get the roots outta my pots to use my soil again. Thanks
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I leave quite a bit of roots in, ill pull out the main root ball, by pulling up on the stalk at the base after the plant has been cut. Ill throw the main root balls in my compost pile but ill leave a good chunk of the roots in the soil to break down, especially now that I'm pretty exclusively in soil beds.

If you want a good chunk removed, I would dump all your pots in a pile. Then go through breaking it up with a rake, most of the roots will cling to the end of the rake and our pretty easy to remove that way.
 
Vato_504

Vato_504

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
I leave quite a bit of roots in, ill pull out the main root ball, by pulling up on the stalk at the base after the plant has been cut. Ill throw the main root balls in my compost pile but ill leave a good chunk of the roots in the soil to break down, especially now that I'm pretty exclusively in soil beds.

If you want a good chunk removed, I would dump all your pots in a pile. Then go through breaking it up with a rake, most of the roots will cling to the end of the rake and our pretty easy to remove that way.
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Thanks fam. One more Roy. Say I have 30 gallons of used soil what amendments and how much of each should I use to start right back up.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Vato_504 said:
Explain a little more for me brother.
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The roots are just dead plant matter -- the same stuff compost is made of.
I recycle all of my soil. I let the root balls dry out completely, then take them out of the pots & use my hands to break everything up so it all has an even consistency. When my work tub is full, I add biochar, oyster shell, & crab meal, then dump it on the big pile. Every week or so I water the pile to keep microbes & worms happy.
After a couple of months, the dirt is ready to be used again.
 
MongolianMonkeyNuts

MongolianMonkeyNuts

Well-Known Member
What do you think about adding Ancient Alaska Humus from General Organics to your recipe? I have a bunch left over from the updated subcool soil I'm running tests with.

The updated recipe asks for 200g or humus per 2 bags of roots
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Vato_504 said:
Thanks fam. One more Roy. Say I have 30 gallons of used soil what amendments and how much of each should I use to start right back up.
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Do you got any amendments on hand friend? Or a list of what you used for your last round. I couldn't find one in our messages that wasn't a year old.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
MongolianMonkeyNuts said:
What do you think about adding Ancient Alaska Humus from General Organics to your recipe? I have a bunch left over from the updated subcool soil I'm running tests with.

The updated recipe asks for 200g or humus per 2 bags of roots
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I'm not one to talk shit, except for when it amuses me :) but subcool invests his money in McDonald's stock, dude's soil building skills leaves a lot to be desired. And the way he turns soil into an ammonia pile; following the recipe doesn't matter. Just don't plant anything into your ammonia pile until it stops stinking up your basement.

If you wanted to follow a quality recipe like the one I posted for you previously tho... ;)

It's compost, so you could use it as a part of your compost ratio. Might as well use it up if you got it. I would lean on a more bacterial heavy compost like worm castings, composted manure, or thermally produced compost for a cannabis crop though. Forest floor compost is great for soil building in a garden bed, it's not something I would recommend or personally use in a container garden. You could make an argument for it's benefits, it's not like it's toxic lol. But it is bagged compost, that has to travel on a truck to a distributor, and then on another truck to a wholesaler, where it sits for god knows how long until it goes on another truck to your local growstore or online distributor; where it sits for god knows how long until you buy it. And they charge you 10 bucks for half a cubic foot.

My point being, you might be able to find a local compost producer (most towns have at the very least a large landscaping company that produces or sources local compost that they will also sell). The product will be fresher and more active, and you'll pay 20 bucks for a cubic yard (you prolly don't have to buy all that)
 
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