Fogdog
Well-Known Member
naive
The Impact of Whiny Bernie Babies
- Thread starter dagwood45431
- Start date
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Cite an example
Right, you believe these votes are legitimate, I don't. I think they're votes to pay lip service and throw progressives a bone. Like st0wandgrow said, we'll see how establishment Democrats vote when they retake control of congress and the white house, until then, you're wasting your breath on their records. What we do know is that establishment politicians like Feinstein and Pelosi have publicly stated they don't support single payer, so there's that.
You've chosen to ignore the facts of reality, that's on you. That's another reason Clinton received fewer progressive votes (even though more Sanders supporters voted for her than Clinton supporters voted for Obama). Multiple members of the DNC resigned because of it, the DNC issued a public apology to Sanders campaign, Brazile admitted she regretted it, all the information is right there in the DNC email leaks. The facts don't go away just because you choose to ignore them.
She lost to a man with a 60% disapproval rating on election day. She was the 2nd disliked candidate in decades after only Donald Trump. She outspent her competition by 2/1 and still lost. She spent less than 25% of her campaign discussing actual policy issues. And according to the only poll that matters, Trump is the president. So that pretty much speaks for itself.
A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Year’s DNC Hack
Former NSA experts say it wasn’t a hack at all, but a leak—an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system.
Cite a single lie
Says the guy who eats up mainstream propaganda like popcorn. They spend billions of dollars a year working on how to convince you to push their establishment agenda against your own interests and you help protect their investment like a good little lemming. I get my information from multiple different independent sources who strive on reporting accurate journalism. Your sources never criticize the Democratic establishment and any criticism that's made about it is automatically "right wing propaganda" or sometimes "far left propaganda" (somehow it's both, whichever one suits the narrative at the time), or sexist, or racist, or Russia, Russia, Russia!
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why did Rendon choose to shelve it until next term instead of send it back to the assembly for revision?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Republicans spent 7 years during the Obama administration campaigning on repealing the ACA, more than 70 times every Republican in office voted 'yes'
Now, they hold control of congress and the white house, they had the power to repeal the ACA and yet it failed. They spent 7 years paying their GOP constituents lip service, then when it came time to put their money where their mouth is, they failed
I support the ACA over the AHCA, so that's good. But it shows an example of how politics works; it obviously doesn't matter much that 100% of Republicans voted to repeal it when they didn't have the power to actually do it, then as soon as they did have the power, enough of them backed down and thwarted the repeal effort
Now, they hold control of congress and the white house, they had the power to repeal the ACA and yet it failed. They spent 7 years paying their GOP constituents lip service, then when it came time to put their money where their mouth is, they failed
I support the ACA over the AHCA, so that's good. But it shows an example of how politics works; it obviously doesn't matter much that 100% of Republicans voted to repeal it when they didn't have the power to actually do it, then as soon as they did have the power, enough of them backed down and thwarted the repeal effort
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Other than living in Canada for half my life and participating in a single payer system...
I do know that it's not rocket science, and I also know that there are plenty of models around the globe for them to draw from. They even have Medicare here in the states to model it after. Nothing changes within the system other than how it's funded, determining costs for services, and setting up an agency to reimburse health care providers for said services. The infrastructure remains the same. Rolling it out and fine tuning it will take some time I agree.
I will have to read up on it a bit more and see what road blocks they encountered.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I think you should look into it. Instead you throw an tantrum. Try being the adult for a change.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I have looked into it and I, along with every other progressive who supports single payer disagree with it, that's why he's likely going to see a primary challenger come election time, because that's how democracy is supposed to work
You're the one constantly making personal attacks and using smear tactics. Why don't you look in the mirror. You can't answer for your positions, that's why you use those tactics. I can answer for my positions, that's why I never need to resort to the same childish tactics you use.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The history of this issue goes back to FDR when he first proposed it in the thirties.
Agree that we have plenty of good examples to model the system for ourselves. Bernie introduced a bare bones and insufficient bill recently too. It has zero support for that very reason. There is a bill in the house that has good support but it's not complete.
Republicans acted as though repealing and replacing Obamacare would be simple. Healthcare spending represents about a quarter of the GDP and is integral to our economy, so I'd rather we get it right than get something like the CA bill that wasn't well thought out. In any case universal healthcare will not happen under the current administration or any GOP controlled congress.
I'm OK with honest critiques of Democrats but this idea that Democrats are the reason we don't have single payer healthcare is dishonest.
Now, if we wanted to get angry about Democratic leadership's sponsoring war in the Middle East, I'm all about criticizing them on that. We waffled when we had a good chance to put real bank reforms and regulations on Wall Street, I'm all about criticizing them on that. Interesting to me how these glaring examples of failings within the Democratic Party are mirrored on the Republican side. Right wing propaganda leaves this out of their thought guides for weak minded people like @Padawanbater2 . My guess is that GOP propaganda bashes Democrats on issues like healthcare and campaign finance reform because its a safe subject for them with their constituents.
you're the one who just said it..what does that mean?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Ok, so then, explain in rational words Rendon's reason why he shelved it. Then in rational words explain why he's wrong.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It does no good to point out your lies, vitriol and mistaken reports of fake news as truth. You don't own up to them. Later on you just repeat it again.
What I don't understand is why you focus so much on fake shit about Democrats. Your lies such as "Doesn't support healthcare" when the facts are that Democrats are the only party that has made access to healthcare central to their strategy and they have posted big wins over the decades, including the ACA. It's Republicans who are blocking the development of healthcare into a single payer system.
Your ending words say exactly where you get your information. How about repeating the right wing bullshit your thought guide, Kyle Kulinski repeated when he called the firing of Flynn and the investigation into Trump's dealing with Russia a "distraction".
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wow well if that wasn't a passive aggressive non answer. with terms.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
-protecting the ACA must be CA top health priority
-SB562 is incomplete, citing;
-financing
-delivery of care
-cost controls
-the Trump administration
-you can do both; protect the ACA while supporting and pushing for a single payer system. The idea that supporting a single payer system means you don't support the ACA is a false dichotomy
-Rendon is basically saying he won't support SB562 because it's not perfect, even though it actually does address financing, delivery of care, and cost controls. I do agree with him about the Trump administrations opposition to CA enacting its own single payer system, but there are ways to defeat that, too, like appealing to states rights. I would ask Rendon what would be a "perfect" system that you would support? I would ask you the same question. They can always say they support universal healthcare but this or that policy just isn't good enough.. So, what is good enough?
-SB562 is incomplete, citing;
-financing
-delivery of care
-cost controls
-the Trump administration
-you can do both; protect the ACA while supporting and pushing for a single payer system. The idea that supporting a single payer system means you don't support the ACA is a false dichotomy
-Rendon is basically saying he won't support SB562 because it's not perfect, even though it actually does address financing, delivery of care, and cost controls. I do agree with him about the Trump administrations opposition to CA enacting its own single payer system, but there are ways to defeat that, too, like appealing to states rights. I would ask Rendon what would be a "perfect" system that you would support? I would ask you the same question. They can always say they support universal healthcare but this or that policy just isn't good enough.. So, what is good enough?
.
then why the noise machines?
last time someone got caught giving a speech to special interests it lost him the presidency.
it's not the fee per se, its what they don't wish for us to hear them saying.
I don't want a president who has a different speech for the elites and different for working folk..do you?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
It would prove your point, but I guess that's not enough. You don't have any examples to cite
It's all establishment politicians who accept corporate contributions from the insurance, & pharmaceutical industries who is standing in the way of enacting single payer healthcare in America. That's why Feinstein, Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton are on record saying they don't support it. Did I just make that up? I've posted the evidence of the video of each of them saying it themselves. 3 examples of prominent Democrats in the party that don't support what you say they support.
do you know the meaning of words or are you just in youre own reality like Trump?
you know he's still going to ask you the very same questions tomorrow hoping the answer will be different?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
All of his talking points are directly attributable to establishment Democratic propaganda
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Exactly. We want to change the laws. In order to do so we need Democrats in office. You dislike the fact that every senator who was present when Sanders submitted reform for CU supported it. I have no idea why.
LOL, "those votes weren't legitimate". Yes they were. They are the record for how those senators voted. You are having it both ways when you discount that vote. If they had voted against it, you'd be in a high dudgeon. Instead you are in a high dudgeon because without any good reason you discount their integrity. Why you aren't in such a high dudgeon about Republicans who actually stopped the bill is beyond me.
And here is an example of a bald faced lie. "That's why Feinstein, Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton are on record saying they don't support it." No they aren't on record for saying exactly that. Cite a record showing they said exactly the words "don't support single payer healthcare" or you are a vitriol spewing liar.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, tell me, who are these "establishment Democrats"?