When Does Life Begin ...

[chuckbane]

Strange, seems to me that I see poor people who have consistently gotten better healthcare than me, because my tax dollars are wasted providing it to them, instead of allowing me to provide my own healthcare.

You talk about greed destroying this country like it's the truth. It's not. Greed didn't destroy this country. Policies such as those that you are advocating that have to do "good" for the less fortunate are what is destroying this country.

No longer is it possible to bust your ass and get ahead. No longer can you build up true wealth with out struggling every god damn step of the way seeing your money stolen to do "good" for other fucking people. Greed didn't destroy this nation. Greed is something that has consistently enhanced and furthered civilization.

Do you think Edison created the Electric Light Bulb because it would do "good". No, he created it, because it was useful to him, and then he licensed the rights to it to a corporation who turned around and sold it. With out the profit incentive that retards like you continuously condemn we'd all be sitting around with candles in our hands wondering what we would be doing when winter came, and we risked freezing to death.

We wouldn't have electricity through out almost our entire nation with out greed. You can't mandate some one to work for some one else's gain with out letting them profit from it. You'll get told to go fuck yourself. Which is prefectly good advice for you to follow Chuck.

Better yet, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and instead of acting hypocritically move to Africa, and send letters to some one and tell us how you like living in what is truly an impoverished area, thanks to the efforts of the environmental movement to stop Africa from using its resources to industrialize and attain hire standards of living.

Attacking Greed is the sign that you are a nut. Do you think that we would have nearly as high of a standard of living if it wasn't for the profit motive?

I can tell you the answer to that question by just looking at Russia under the Communists. The Answer is NO! Of course, I don't expect some enviromentally concerned socialist like you to admit that, just as I don't expect you to actually understand the difference between a true capitalist system and the system that we have in place now.

There's even more that you wont admit to, like the fact that those people that benefitted from Greed have given a lot more back to the country than you ever will. Bill Gates gave Billions to charity, Buffett, Bloomberg, Ellison. They all gave billions to charities. To state that Greed is bad when people that epitomize the philosophy of greed being good are giving away billions is stupid. Obviously if all there was to it was Greed, they wouldn't give anything to charities.

As far a Flint. Flint was destroyed by the Unions who were greedy, and destroyed three great companies. Flint was destroyed by bad management who was too busy worrying about the tax costs of actions, and debating with unions to actually confront market forces, and adapt to changing market demands.

I don't know anything about L.A. Though I can only imagine that since it is populated by people that largely think like you do, but consistently fail to put their money where their mouths are, that the problem isn't lack of greed, but idiots like you running around preventing people from helping themselves to get ahead.

Endless destruction of mining, and clear cutting. Still living in the 1970s eh, chuck. There is more forested land in the United Now then there was 50 years ago. There's more regulation to ensure that those greedy corporations you so hate actually do clean up after themselves.

Though I don't know why I bother responding to this when you fail to actually respond to my statements with out actually addressing the points I make.

Chuck, like I said, put your money where your mouth is, and sell your computer, and stop using electricity. If you don't like our capitalistic society that much why don't you move to the middle of Africa, or the Australian Outback and live in a little cave like you seem to want everyone else to do?

Textbook, im not wasting my time, if you want to have an intelligent debate i'm down.. but you need to listen instead of just beating your gums with unrelated things. why have i had no answer to my questions? i perused through your post quick and didnt see any of the references to all the "facts" you were spouting out....

talk all you want

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Like I said, put your money where your mouth is, and go to a truly impoverished country, or the Australian Outback and live in a cave, with out electricity, with out a computer. No one is going to stop you.

 

[ccodiane]

An abortion debate: When does life begin ...

Your comments please.

The answer should look something like this.

- The death penalty is sanctioned by 37 of the 50 states and the U.S. government and the military. Lethal injection is the main method used by all of the death penalty states except for Nebraska which uses the electric chair.



AGGRAVATING FACTORS FOR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BY STATE

Alabama-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or depraved (or involved torture)
(2)The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3)The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4)The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(5)The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(6)The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(7)The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(9)The defendant intentionally caused the death of two or more persons by one act pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct
(10)The capital offense was one of a series of intentional killings committed by the defendant


Arizona-
(1)The defendant has been convicted of another offense in the US for which under Arizona law a sentence of life imprisonment or death was imposable
(2)The defendant has been or was previously convicted of a serious offense, whether preparatory or completed.
(3)In the commission of the offense the defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person or persons in addition to the victim of the offense.
(4)The defendant procured the commission of the offense by payment, or promise of payment, of anything of pecuniary value.
(5)The defendant committed the offense as consideration for the receipt, or in expectation of the receipt, of anything of pecuniary value.
(6)The defendant committed the offense in an especially heinous, cruel or depraved manner.
(7)The defendant committed the offense while: (a) In the custody of or on authorized or unauthorized release from the state department of corrections, a law enforcement agency or a county or city jail. (b) On probation for a felony offense
The defendant has been convicted of one or more other homicides, as defined, which were committed during the commission of the offense
(9)The defendant was an adult at the time the offense was committed or was tried as an adult and the murdered person was under fifteen years of age or was seventy years of age or older
(10)The murdered individual was an on duty peace officer who was killed in the course of performing his official duties and the defendant knew, or should have known, that the victim was a peace officer
(11)The defendant committed the offense with the intent to promote, further or assist the objectives of a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate or to join a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate
(12)The defendant committed the offense to prevent a person’s cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation, to prevent a person’s testimony in a court proceeding, in retaliation for a person’s cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation or in retaliation for a person’s testimony in a court proceeding
(13)The offense was committed in a cold, calculated manner without pretense of moral or legal justification
(14)The defendant used a remote stun gun or an authorized remote stun gun in the commission of the offense
(15)The defendant engaged in terrorism
(16)The defendant committed burglary in the second degree
(17)The defendant was an adult and the murdered person was an unborn child in the womb at any stage of its development

Wyoming-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(3) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(4) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(5) The defendant is a future danger
(6) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(7) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
The defendant knew or reasonably should have known the victim was less than 17 years of age
(9)The defendant knew or reasonably should have known the victim was older than 65 years of age
(10)The defendant knew or reasonably should have known the victim was especially vulnerable due to significant mental or physical disability
(11)The defendant killed another human being purposely and with premeditated malice and while engaged in, or as an accomplice in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or flight after committing or attempting to commit, any robbery, sexual assault, arson, burglary. Kidnapping or abuse of a child under the age of sixteen

etc.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Better yet, Chuck, stop breathing, your expelling CO2, and as you know CO2 is a deadly, dangerous greenhouse gas.

 

[Bongulator]

That's an ideological difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives get what they can for themselves and fuck the rest of humanity, and liberals try to help others in society. Neither ideology is unequivocally best. It's sort of a moral thing. Do you 'help the least among us', as Jesus taught, or do you just concentrate your resources solely on helping yourself? I'm in no way religious (quite the opposite), but I'm with Jesus on that one. But then, he was a liberal himself.

 

[ViRedd]

That's an ideological difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives get what they can for themselves and fuck the rest of humanity, and liberals try to help others in society. Neither ideology is unequivocally best. It's sort of a moral thing. Do you 'help the least among us', as Jesus taught, or do you just concentrate your resources solely on helping yourself? I'm in no way religious (quite the opposite), but I'm with Jesus on that one. But then, he was a liberal himself.

That's a liberal myth.

I've seen statistics showing that conservatives give more to charity than liberals.

Here, I found this:

A recently published book outlines the difference between Conservative and Liberals who donate to Charity – that’s the subject of today’s Talking Points memo.

So what are we to make of the fact that conservative Americans donate 30% more to charity than liberal Americans? A new book called “Who Really Cares” by Syracuse University professor Arthur Brooks is not going to please the Howard Dean crowd. The book states flat-out that religious Americans who vote Republican are far more likely to be generous to the downtrodden than secular-progressives.

The big question, of course, is why? Liberal philosophy is all about “nurturing” people who need help. The “tax the rich” crew can’t yell loud enough that more money needs to go to Americans in need. Just not their money.

That may be unfair, but probably is not. The cornerstone of liberal economic thought is “income redistribution;” that is, big government taking assets from the affluent through taxation and giving said assets to the less well-off through entitlements like subsidized health care, housing, educational scholarships and the like. The left is also big on imposed “economic justice,” things like guaranteed wages and lifetime job security.

But a funny thing happened on the way to liberalism. Americans who believe in “income redistribution” give 75% less to charity than Americans who do not, according to Dr. Brooks. That is a stunning differential. I believe this is a religious thing. Liberals believe in individual gratification, and that often takes money. Buying that jazzy new SUV and that vacation home can deplete disposable cash fast. If it’s all about you, then you are thinking about you, not about poor Dave down the street.

But devout Christians, Jews, and Muslims are compelled to help the poor by their beliefs. Personal gratification is not a big theme in scripture. Jesus was a huge “help your neighbor” guy. For Christians, it is all about Dave down the street, not the latest material possession.
The statistics say that religious Americans give four times as much money to charity each year than secular people, and are 23 times more likely to volunteer to help people than folks who never attend church. And here’s another crushing stat: If liberals donated blood at the rate conservatives do, the nation’s blood supply would rise 45%.

So in this season of giving, Christmas, a word some liberals don’t like to say, it might be worth pondering just who is really looking out for the have-nots. The leftist media often portrays conservatives as mean, sexist, racist, bigoted homophobes who are cruel and insensitive to the plight of the downtrodden.

But, as the tax returns of multi-millionaires Dick Cheney and Al Gore prove, the media image is false. The Vice President gives millions to charity, Mr. Gore very little.

So the next time you hear a big government liberal bloviate about helping the poor, please trot out the statistics mentioned Dr. Brooks book. And then tell that person that in America today, giving money to charity seems to be the right thing.

What’s left is – well, liberalism.


And that’s the memo.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

Yeah Vi, it looks good on paper, But the "Brutal truth" is that conservatives actually think along terms of Me me me, rather than Us. The only Us in the room is them and their money, "my precious". If your contentions that charity works were true, there would be no homeless, no sick and dying, no hungry people in America. The fact that there are these things, completely negates your theory. Without welfare, medicare, and foodstamps, the situation in this country would be horrendous. I'm pretty sure you don't give a fuck, as long as you've got yours, and you even want to do away with what we have now. Sad but true, you are one selfish son-of-a-bitch. Now run off and tattle on me to a mod.

 

[ViRedd]

Yeah Vi, it looks good on paper, But the "Brutal truth" is that conservatives actually think along terms of Me me me, rather than Us. The only Us in the room is them and their money, "my precious". If your contentions that charity works were true, there would be no homeless, no sick and dying, no hungry people in America. The fact that there are these things, completely negates your theory. Without welfare, medicare, and foodstamps, the situation in this country would be horrendous. I'm pretty sure you don't give a fuck, as long as you've got yours, and you even want to do away with what we have now. Sad but true, you are one selfish son-of-a-bitch. Now run off and tattle on me to a mod.

Sorry Med, but unlike some of your pansy-assed liberal cohorts on the site, I don't roll over on people. I do however, find the fact that you just cannot accept any other viewpoints other than your own without resorting to personal attacks, to be very immature and boring.

Have you ever given one little thought that your beloved Welfare State may be CAUSING the problems you alluded to above? Think about it.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

Sorry Med, but unlike some of your pansy-assed liberal cohorts on the site, I don't roll over on people. I do however, find the fact that you just cannot accept any other viewpoints other than your own without resorting to personal attacks, to be very immature and boring.

Have you ever given one little thought that your beloved Welfare State may be CAUSING the problems you alluded to above? Think about it.

Vi

What you are saying is to blame poverty on the poor, sickness on the sick and hunger on the hungry. Typical right wing rhetoric. Hell yeah, it's true because you said it's true. All these poor people have done this to themselves. It's not because there are no jobs, or that their diet and lack of medical treatment promote sickness, or that the lack of money to buy food may be contributing to their hunger, it's all their fault because they are inherently lazy. You are one sick puppy.

 

[chuckbane]

The Brutal Truth is that it's people like you who believe they have the right to rape our mother earth, have the conscious to stand up and force their bullshit down other peoples throat.

the Brutal Truth is that if we continue the path we are on there will one day no longer be future generations.

The Brutal Truth is that greed and corruption are destroying the "new free world" and we are now just a third world country with money and tall buildings. we are socially in the third world and we are morally in the third world.

take a look at the ghettos in l.a., detroit, flint, washington.... and tell me this isnt the third world.

take a look at the sick people who cant afford proper health care and tell me this isnt the third world

take a look at what we have done to our enviroment, the clear cutting, the overfishing, the endless destructive mining and tell me we are not in the third world.

you havent been exposed to this because your governemnt does the best job they can to make you believe you are the best and everything is all right

but its not

try thinking,, you might start to realize some things

i have told you more than once.. its sooo simple,, you just want me to say something you can jump on to make yourself look better.. because right now you are looking like a dog running away with your tail between your legs

equal quality for all.

more focus on trying to help EVERYONE, man, woman, black, white, rich and poor and not just kissing the ass of whoever pays the most taxes,,, because all they want is to pay less taxes. Lame.

better healthcare, better social programs, better mental health programs, better disability care, better care for unwanted children (because right now you might as well get an abortion,, foster care is in the shitter and most of the kids that were brought up that way end up with some type of "dysfunction" in their adult years... fuck i could go on,, but whats the point?

you say the same thing over and over,.. i have posted many opinions and questions and have had NO actual reply

now tell me who the idiot is

run away again Vi

block me or something, i dont want to give you nightmares (if you are 10 like you sound) or a heart attack (being an old old man like you "say" you are)

i hate paying taxes just like the next guy, but thats because i dont feel like the money is being spent wisely.

and thats the first resolution. better government spending.

Seriously, look up how much money the U.S. spent on the war.. you have no idea what could be done with that money. Nooo idea. We are again, fighting a war that need not be fought. Pissing away money for destructive machines that kill and destruct. Pissing away lives for a shady reason... Dont say you cant see it,, you would have to be blind

And if more money was given in taxes and it was spent properly we could live in a world where food could be taken in proper moderations with no exchange of money. That is one example, others such as public healthcare could ensure that no sick human goes without treatment in fear of not being able to buy food,, sounds good to me, and I CAN afford health care even though I have none provided to me by my employer... well now i get it free but just using it as an exmaple

If you ask me the only thing the rich should be able to do with their money is buy luxuries.

Why do some people need massive houses and some people live in the streets? that is not equality. We are humans and we should work together to make sure that everyone has the means to live provided they contribute back to society at a minimum standard. anyone that gives more than the minimum standard will be REWARDED with moneys to buy luxuries, but not a better quality of life.

Privatization is ruining our great country (it's still my country too damnit!)

and think of how many mentally unstable people go untreated (or treated with pills as in the case with the U.S.,, provided they can afford these expensive pills from companies that are worth billions of dollars... yet still overcharge, well no wonder they are so rich)
and end up living a life of crime, or alcohol/drug abuse, or a life in prison,
have you heard about the problem with the overpacked prisons? still not much being done about that.. hmm, something must be wrong...instead of helping ppl we are just putting them away

Still waiting Vi...

i think your true colours are about to show Vi.

You may have a lot of posts and a lot of rep but that doesnt mean shit to me pal. You talk a big talk but when someone comes around willing to take you on you run away like a little bitch...

Pathetic.

 

[chuckbane]

Like I said, put your money where your mouth is, and go to a truly impoverished country, or the Australian Outback and live in a cave, with out electricity, with out a computer. No one is going to stop you.

Sorry, but I am better than that.

Better yet, Chuck, stop breathing, your expelling CO2, and as you know CO2 is a deadly, dangerous greenhouse gas.

I do! Annd guess what? Trees remove the Carbon from CO2 to form pure oxygen and use the carbon to create foliage!

Ever grown dope? or are you just on a growing forum to spread "TheBrutalTruth".. hmmm?

That's an ideological difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives get what they can for themselves and fuck the rest of humanity, and liberals try to help others in society. Neither ideology is unequivocally best. It's sort of a moral thing. Do you 'help the least among us', as Jesus taught, or do you just concentrate your resources solely on helping yourself? I'm in no way religious (quite the opposite), but I'm with Jesus on that one. But then, he was a liberal himself.

Yep, and thats why i laugh everytime Brutal talks. He has a site for "conservative libertarians"

what a joke

a unionist

That's a liberal myth.

I've seen statistics showing that conservatives give more to charity than liberals.

Here, I found this:

[some random bullshit]

And that’s the memo.

Vi

yup. that it.. the big section in the middle has nothing but words of another person.. whats up vi? cant think for yourself?

you keep living your life BELIEVING what you read and what you are told by your gov.

I got one question and than i am done with you, you have given me nothing to think that going on with this argument is even remotely worth my time so here you go.

Do you think the system we have in place right now, is the best possible system?

Because, you see, I believe that we can do it better. And if you dont, well than there is nothing more to say... not that you have said much,,,
I never said much of anything with substance in longer formats on this particular thread because i understand that the people fighting on this site were going to be ignorant dicks like you who would simply ignore what i say because they have ignored so much other shit in their life.

 

[medicineman]

Geeze Vi, it seems like someone else is on to you,~LOL~

 

[ViRedd]

Chuck sez ...

"Do you think the system we have in place right now, is the best possible system?"

No I don't. The governmental system we've evolved into is socialistic fascism. We are overrun by bureaucrats, rules, laws and regulations designed to stifle the free market, economic freedom and liberty.

Now, I know from your previous posts, that you prefer "equality," but you've yet to define what you mean by that. I'm in favor of "equality" too. Equality of opportunity ... but not "equality" of outcomes. I suspect that your "equality" is of the latter sort ... and, in my opinion, the only way to achieve that type of "equality," is through economic enslavement, with the end result that everyone is equal ... equally poor.

That's my take on equality ... what's your's?

Vi

 

[medicineman]

Vi, what don't you get about this crisis being a free market meltdown, like Enron, but on a much larger scale?

 

[ViRedd]

Vi, what don't you get about this crisis being a free market meltdown, like Enron, but on a much larger scale?

As one very bright poster said: "There are no bailouts in a free market."

Vi

 

[medicineman]

As one very bright poster said: "There are no bailouts in a free market."

Vi

For once we are in full agreement. I say let the cards fall, let the market go to hell, it's an inflated bag of shit anyway. The sad thing is, My wifes 401K is in the market, My annuity is in the market, and my motherinlaws annuity is also in the market (Prudential), we would be fucked. The really sad news is, the big boys in the market have already bailed, taking the assets with them.

 

[ViRedd]

For once we are in full agreement. I say let the cards fall, let the market go to hell, it's an inflated bag of shit anyway. The sad thing is, My wifes 401K is in the market, My annuity is in the market, and my motherinlaws annuity is also in the market (Prudential), we would be fucked. The really sad news is, the big boys in the market have already bailed, taking the assets with them.

The "Evil Doer" is the Man in The Mirror.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

The "Evil Doer" is the Man in The Mirror.

Vi

How can you say that? I have no control over the markets or my annuities, You are just being hateful.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

How can you say that? I have no control over the markets or my annuities, You are just being hateful.

One swift kick and the entire rotten thing will fall apart, the problem is that you got to deliver this one swift kick from behind to catch the bankers and the politicians by surprise.

Medicine Man, do you think that your money in the markets has real value, or does it only have value because it is ownership (I hope its ownership stakes in real companies, not paper companies) in companies that produce goods and services?

I've watched a good chunk of what I've invested supposedly vanish, but that's a catch 22. I already spent the money to purchase the shares. The problem now is that people don't "think" the shares are worth as much. To me they are still worth what I bought them at (especially the dividend paying ones that are happily compounding faster now that the price has fallen (at least on the ones that weren't banks, and haven't cut their dividends)).

Now, I can understand how having an annuity tied to the market can suck, but like everything else in life, there are risks.

To deny the markets the ability to correct themselves by forcing mismanaged firms that made stupid mistakes out of the market isn't going to solve the problem, but will just prolong the problem. The nice thing about the free market is that it punishes firms that are mismanaged and rewards firms that are well managed and thus ensures that the best survive. Due diligence requires research into the firms that you are investing in to make sure that the firm you are investing in is well managed, profitable, and doesn't have any hidden off-balance sheet items (like Enron did).

Your money, and my money, was already spent on those shares. Regardless of the value of those shares we will still own the shares (which only becomes a problem if the firms go bankrupt, or start being mismanaged).

Equality of Opportunity, the firms that fucked up need to be allowed to vanish to create opportunity for well managed firms to expand, and for new firms to be formed.

You can't have a dynamic economy with out success and failure. All you end up with when you don't let firms die is a feudalistic system controlled by the same firms, and feudalistic systems Stagnate and Rot.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Sorry, but I am better than that.



I do! Annd guess what? Trees remove the Carbon from CO2 to form pure oxygen and use the carbon to create foliage!

Ever grown dope? or are you just on a growing forum to spread "TheBrutalTruth".. hmmm?



Yep, and thats why i laugh everytime Brutal talks. He has a site for "conservative libertarians"

what a joke

a unionist





yup. that it.. the big section in the middle has nothing but words of another person.. whats up vi? cant think for yourself?

you keep living your life BELIEVING what you read and what you are told by your gov.

I got one question and than i am done with you, you have given me nothing to think that going on with this argument is even remotely worth my time so here you go.

Do you think the system we have in place right now, is the best possible system?

Because, you see, I believe that we can do it better. And if you dont, well than there is nothing more to say... not that you have said much,,,
I never said much of anything with substance in longer formats on this particular thread because i understand that the people fighting on this site were going to be ignorant dicks like you who would simply ignore what i say because they have ignored so much other shit in their life.

Chuck, still running your mouth with out anything solid behind it, huh?

Must be nice to be able to have an opinion that is not backed by FACTS.

Then again, I already knew that you were a complete and total moron, based on the fact that any time I raise a point you ignore it, come up with an insult, or say that "it's a text book response".

I have yet to see you actually engage in any intelligent discussion, but I know that's because your philosophy is a hollow drum that has nothing backing it but the big booming noises that it can make.

Sorry, but I am better than that.

No you aren't Chuck, like a caveman, you are rationalizing your world view with false beliefs and unresearched conclusions.