coco coir preflowering auto dying

[NinjaMaster]

ok so ive been top watering my coco which i now realize was stupid. i do have a large container that i will start putting the coco into with premixed feed.

I usually ph my water / nutes to between 5.5 - 6.2
I use tap water and nitrosol - http://www.efekto.co.za/shop/nutrition/nutrition-plant-food/nitrosol/

for my ph meter i am using this - and i am testing my water with it - seems to work!

I have 5x 20w cfl - 3 6500k and 2 3200k
the temps are always between 77 - 82
i have a 12" fan blowing against the wall bouncing air onto the plants constantly.
The grow is in a double cupboard so fresh air comes in and out of the gaps between the doors.
There are light leaks - thats why im doing autos.

for the plant i posted about i never got good root growth because i started in a plastic 3 gal container and it was always wet. then i transplanted to the smart pot - this is because i only learned about smart pots like 3 weeks into my grow and realized i needed to use them.

 

[DonnyDee]

I checked your profile on the last page to see if you were a Saffer, seems I didn't even need to.

Are you watering by hand?

Still looking for leds btw?

 

[NinjaMaster]

im watering by hand yes.
im sorted for leds tx.

 

[DonnyDee]

What sort of runoff?

What leds did you go with?

 

[MickFoster]

@NinjaMaster we are waiting patiently for your reply with more info on your grow so we can help, you've got the attention of some great growers in here but its hard to tell you whats going on without knowing more of the variables, i will say ANC is right it definitely looks overwatered which is usually hard to do in coco unless your drowning it daily, i can also say that you are on the right track combining coco with smart-pots, i did that for a long time and got great results-probably some of the best plants ive ever grown were done that way! the key to it as ANC pointed out is making sure you have consistent wet-dry cycles, an easy way to accomplish this consistency is to use an old bathroom scale to weigh the pots right after watering so you know the average weight of them when wet then wait a few days for them to dry out and weigh them again to get the average weight of them when dry, you will notice a significant difference in weight between wet and dry and before long you wont even need the scale you'll just know by picking it up if it needs watering, With coco+smart pots you really only need to water ever 2-4 days during veg (many variables can affect the rate at which water is transpired) and only every 1-2days during flower, again keep in mind these are ballpark estimates based on the average water retention rate of coco in smart-pots, you really have to know and watch all your variables to know what your specific grow needs are, this is what people mean when they talk about "dialing in" your grow.

Edit:
One last side note about coco+smart pots, either set up an automated drip system for your pots or get some kind of container large enough to mix your nutes in and then sit your smart pots in that to water them. (i used to use a concrete mixing tub for my larger 5-8gal smart pots)

Coco is easily disturbed by pouring water into it manually so you want to avoid watering from the top if you're hand watering. Its actually better to water from the bottom (make sure atleast the bottom 1/3 of your smart pot is submerged when using this method) because then as you pull the pot out of the water the vacuum created will draw fresh air into the rootzone from the top, this is the same science behind EnF growing.

If using a drip system you want to place the dripper to where it drips as close to the center of the pot as possible but without having it drip directly onto the stem of the plant, You want the drip nearest to the center so that the coco will wick the moisture evenly throughout the pot, however if your dripping right on the base of your plant then the water will be going directly to the roots and the roots will not spread out "in search" of more food. And just to clarify in case you dont know- more roots=more bud, so dont think "oh i dont care if my roots dont spread out" because trust me- you do! xD

I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said. I have never heard that hand watering from the top easily disturbs coco - I've been growing in it for years and have always fed from the top. I never let my coco dry out because it will cause salt build up. I feed every day to run off from sprout and twice a day when in flower with excellent results and no deficiencies.

Two weeks old and fed nutes to run off everyday.


Four weeks from sprout and fed nutes to run off everyday.


Nine weeks from sprout feeding twice a day.


End result - 1lb. off of two plants with only 5 weeks of veg.

 

[NinjaMaster]

What sort of runoff?

What leds did you go with?

2x 60w drivers powering 3w leds with with 60 degree lens angle.

 

[DonnyDee]

Nice.

Measure your runoff, I found that helped me a bunch. I had terrible pH lockout and once I started measuring my runoff, I quickly realised that I was getting nutrient buildup in my medium.

 

[NinjaMaster]

ok can you go into it somewhat? what am i looking for on my runoff?
what happened to your grow and how did you fix the nutrient buildup?

 

[DonnyDee]

If you are watering with 500ppm 5.8pH and your runoff is 1000ppm and 7pH, you'll know that your medium needs to be "flushed". Just make sure you are watering enough that around 40% of the water drains out of the container - at least that's how I solved my issue.

 

[MickFoster]

If you feed everyday to 20% run off, you will never get nutrient build up. I have never had to flush my plants in 10 years of growing in coco.

 

[coreywebster]

I agree with Mick, top watering coco is not in any way stupid and is what most coco growers do.

 

[NinjaMaster]

If you are watering with 500ppm 5.8pH and your runoff is 1000ppm and 7pH, you'll know that your medium needs to be "flushed". Just make sure you are watering enough that around 40% of the water drains out of the container - at least that's how I solved my issue.

i dont have a TDS meter.
Ok so im gonna need one.
will a cheap one work?

 

[coreywebster]

You want a proper PH tester, That thing is ment for soil ph not water. You need to know your ph is within reasonable margins. With that thing it could be way off.

 

[MickFoster]

I have never owned a TDS meter and I don't own a pH meter either. I use the drops and never had a problem.

 

[DonnyDee]

Get some pH test drops and water with more runoff. It'll at least eliminate some of the variables.

 

[NinjaMaster]

ok will this work:
https://www.takealot.com/ph-tester-ph-107-digital-ph-meter-tester/PLID41406718

as a cheap temp alternative ill get the test drops so long

 

[JackSkell]

I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said. I have never heard that hand watering from the top easily disturbs coco - I've been growing in it for years and have always fed from the top. I never let my coco dry out because it will cause salt build up. I feed every day to run off from sprout and twice a day when in flower with excellent results and no deficiencies.

Two weeks old and fed nutes to run off everyday.
View attachment 4005307

Four weeks from sprout and fed nutes to run off everyday.
View attachment 4005308

Nine weeks from sprout feeding twice a day.
View attachment 4005304

End result - 1lb. off of two plants with only 5 weeks of veg.
View attachment 4005306

You can disagree all you want, everyone has their own method, what works for one doesnt always work for another, your grow looks nice so props on whatever you do. But on the real you've probly never heard about it cuz it only takes 2 eyeballs to see it happen, even when slowly pouring water into coco theres generally a fair bit of mild erosion that takes place not just on the surface either but subsurface as well, that erosion can damage roots, now can it be done- yes, i did it too before learning better methods, but thats just it- there are better methods, I will always suggest bottom feeding for coco+smart pots because it causes the same effect as EnF and some of the best plants i ever grew were done exactly that way, I never said top feeding was stupid or bad simply that theres better ways, like drip system or bottom feeding.

@NinjaMaster yes that ph tester will work fine, i suggest a tds meter as well, just because *somepeople* like blindly mixing nutes together doesn't mean you should, always better to be safe than sorry.

 

[xtsho]

PH your nutrient solution to 6.0. Don't worry about runoff ph. Get a digital ph meter. That one you're using is junk. Top watering is fine. Anyone saying different is incorrect.

 

[DonnyDee]

PH your nutrient solution to 6.0. Don't worry about runoff ph. Get a digital ph meter. That one you're using is junk. Top watering is fine. Anyone saying different is incorrect.

What's the issue with his plant then?

 

[xtsho]

What's the issue with his plant then?

It's hard to tell. The first thing is to start watering with a lower ph than 6.5.

I wouldn't use these nutrients either. I've played with Gibberelic Acid and wouldn't use it on a regular basis. This nutrient has it in it's ingredients.
Nitrosol
Act No. 36 of 1947: Reg. No. K2673 & L3925

Ingredients: 80 g/kg N; 20 g/kg P; 58 g/kg K; 7 g/kg Mg; 6 g/kg Ca; 4 g/kg S; 60 mg/kg Fe; 1 mg/kg Cu; 1 mg/kg Zn; 40 mg/kg Mn; 023 mg/kg B; 15 mg/kg Mo Gibberelic Acid 0.003g/kg (NPK Analysis 4:1:3 (16))

Nitrosol® Natural Organic Plant Food for use on ornamentals, lawns, roses, vegetables, shrubs, fruit bearing trees, bonzai, trees, seedlings, orchids, palms and ground covers.

I would let the medium dry out and then water with half strength nutes ph'd to 6.0 and I would skip the calmag for now. If you look at the ingredients there is plenty of calcium and magnesium in those nutes. People think that just because you grow in coco you need to add calmag. You don't need calmag if the nutrients you use already have sufficient amounts of calmag. I've been growing in coco for well over ten years and never use calmag. People seem to think that they need additives when they don't. The plant can only use so much of anything. Too much and you toxify your grow medium.