Active hydroponic disaster prevention

[ttystikk]

Careful with your wild promises dude… 68 F H20 surely does not hold the most dissolved possible if the temp is stable by any stretch of the imagination. How about constant 105% DO super-saturation in 80F water, Bet you never thought of that did you. Plant root metabolism is far superior at constant 80 F than a cold 68 F.
I bet the forum pseudo expert Rocketman has no concept of this Fact as he is always fixated in the other world. He’s such a trip, great comedy. This is not covered nor mentioned in the standard internet DO Chart which totally confuses most dudes which is beyond any possibility and surely beyond belief for many dudes.
By the way, in your opinion, what do you consider the roots lower temperature restraint that negative effects optimal root metabolism? You got a number or even a guess or no?
I would ask you what is the lower DO range in res water where root suffocation and root death begins, but clearly that question is clearly far beyond your scope of knowledge which is understandable.
Do any of you other dudes here have any idea what DO is considered beyond the lower limits of safe oxygenation, where low oxygen, root suffocation and root death begins in res water?

As long as dissolved oxygen levels are constantly replenished then all these questions are irrelevant to anyone but a water quality engineer; the saturation level will be plenty to keep the plants in good health.

Again, it's just not hard to fully oxygenate water for growing plants or keeping fish in, and does not require much if any special equipment. I've run systems with hundreds of gallons of water and never had a problem unless the pump quit.

The point we're making is to save yourself the trouble of solving problems you don't have so you can instead use the time to solve the problems you DO have.

 

[SwitchHitter]

Careful with your wild promises dude… 68 F H20 surely does not hold the most dissolved possible if the temp is stable by any stretch of the imagination. How about constant 105% DO super-saturation in 80F water, Bet you never thought of that did you. Plant root metabolism is far superior at constant 80 F than a cold 68 F.
I bet the forum pseudo expert Rocketman has no concept of this Fact as he is always fixated in the other world. He’s such a trip, great comedy. This is not covered nor mentioned in the standard internet DO Chart which totally confuses most dudes which is beyond any possibility and surely beyond belief for many dudes.
By the way, in your opinion, what do you consider the roots lower temperature restraint that negative effects optimal root metabolism? You got a number or even a guess or no?
I would ask you what is the lower DO range in res water where root suffocation and root death begins, but clearly that question is clearly far beyond your scope of knowledge which is understandable.
Do any of you other dudes here have any idea what DO is considered beyond the lower limits of safe oxygenation, where low oxygen, root suffocation and root death begins in res water?

Dude, you're a little cunt. Shut your fingers mouths. We trying to leasrn here. Not have a dick shoved in our face

 

[SwitchHitter]

Coco is a solid substrate and doesn't need cold water to avoid root rot, it just needs to be allowed to dry. Therefore it's not a good analogy for deep water hydroponics.

Also, from personal experience I've found that most DWC and RDWC systems do have daily temperature fluctuations, and these are actually beneficial as long as the water temperature drops to 65 or close at least once every 24 hours. Even large systems can vary by 5 degrees or more between the end of the night cycle and the end of the day cycle.

This is how one can get warm daytime water temperatures to accelerate plant growth without running the risk of root zone problems. It even saves energy by allowing the designer to use a smaller amount of chilling capacity than might otherwise be called for.

Long ago I threw out my air pumps and stones in favor of waterfalls, which elevate the circulated water return above the surface of the water in the container. Just like the fish keepers I was emulating, I found that I had better aeration. Additional benefits included less noise, less power consumption and less heat.

This approach worked so well that once when I deliberately added putrid water to see how it would affect things, the system's response was a complete non-event.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just that the situation is more complicated than than the single variable. Hope this helps!

I'm sure the ground changes temperature at night....you know, deep down where roots go... All I do in the garden is try my damn hardest to replicate nature. Root temp swings should be used in late bloom. I really enjoy reading your responses ttystikk. Makes me think about things I've already thought of.
Also a large fan of no air stones. Water cascading is great

 

[ttystikk]

I'm sure the ground changes temperature at night....you know, deep down where roots go... All I do in the garden is try my damn hardest to replicate nature. Root temp swings should be used in late bloom. I really enjoy reading your responses ttystikk. Makes me think about things I've already thought of.
Also a large fan of no air stones. Water cascading is great

IME, root temp swings work throughout the whole cycle from start to finish. I love them!

I think the temperature swing outside in soil is closely related to the depth the measurement is taken, after allowing for climate. Just like pH swing, I think that unless it's taken to an extreme that it's beneficial. In fact, the very fact that it swings might be a key to keeping it within such bounds.

Definitely good stuff!

 

[J Henry]

Long ago I threw out my air pumps and stones in favor of waterfalls, which elevate the circulated water return above the surface of the water in the container. Just like the fish keepers I was emulating, I found that I had better aeration.

So you telling me (like this is a fact) that you think that you get more oxygen with air and a water fall and less oxygen with air blowing through an air pump and bubblers so you threw away you air pump and bubblers because the water fall gave out more O2 than the air pump. Well that a crock and a half or more like 2 crocks dude! Who in the world do you think would believe that?

Although you have never actually tested the DO difference between using air pumps/bubblers and using water falls, you really do think/believe/guess/hope and tell others as fact, that you get more oxygen with air and a water fall because the fish pond salesman told you that?

Seriously, I got to laugh out loud at this non-since your peddling. Your shuck’in and jiv’in like your mentor, the rocketman and peanuts, his simple minded little buddy.

Now that makes no since at all dude because air contains a little less than 21% O2 at sea level or the top of Mt. Everest so how do world you get more O2 with a water fall than an air pump anywhere on earth?

You are also one of those dudes that never test DO’s in res water too, because you have a DO Chart and thermometer that confirms DO, right. Actually you don’t have a clue because you have never tested any DO using an air pump/air bubblers or water walls either have you.

You and the rocketman along with his followers are as dim as a small birthday candle in the darkness, a less fortunate gravitator group.

Is there anyone here that took 6th grade chemistry or is a Jr. High School Graduate?

 

[OldMedUser]

Is there anyone here that took 6th grade chemistry or is a Jr. High School Graduate?

Yeah. I'm a chemist with a diploma in Environmental Chemistry worth 2 years uni credit.

Never tested DO in my DWC tubs. Run 2 - 12" stones in each Rubbermaid tub off of dual outlet air pumps. If two tubs are going with two pumps them each pump is running one stone in each tub and the pumps are plugged into different circuits in case one breaker flips tho that hasn't happened in the last 14 years in this house.

I've only done about 50 tubs worth in the last 16 years so don't know everything but what I do know I share without coming off like a jerk.

Never did get my High School diploma so I guess I'm as ignorant as you make everyone else out to be.

Social skills trump education any day.

 

[OldMedUser]

I'm sure the ground changes temperature at night....you know, deep down where roots go... All I do in the garden is try my damn hardest to replicate nature. Root temp swings should be used in late bloom. I really enjoy reading your responses ttystikk. Makes me think about things I've already thought of.
Also a large fan of no air stones. Water cascading is great

Temp swings in the root zone with potted plants happen fast but plant's roots in the ground won't even notice a frost deeper than an inch or two. If growing in pots outside insulate the pots with anything. Pile straw around them or wrap with wall insulation. They make white stuff that don't itch you and will hide the black pots in the snow.

 

[ttystikk]

So you telling me (like this is a fact) that you think that you get more oxygen with air and a water fall and less oxygen with air blowing through an air pump and bubblers so you threw away you air pump and bubblers because the water fall gave out more O2 than the air pump. Well that a crock and a half or more like 2 crocks dude! Who in the world do you think would believe that?

Although you have never actually tested the DO difference between using air pumps/bubblers and using water falls, you really do think/believe/guess/hope and tell others as fact, that you get more oxygen with air and a water fall because the fish pond salesman told you that?

Seriously, I got to laugh out loud at this non-since your peddling. Your shuck’in and jiv’in like your mentor, the rocketman and peanuts, his simple minded little buddy.

Now that makes no since at all dude because air contains a little less than 21% O2 at sea level or the top of Mt. Everest so how do world you get more O2 with a water fall than an air pump anywhere on earth?

You are also one of those dudes that never test DO’s in res water too, because you have a DO Chart and thermometer that confirms DO, right. Actually you don’t have a clue because you have never tested any DO using an air pump/air bubblers or water walls either have you.

You and the rocketman along with his followers are as dim as a small birthday candle in the darkness, a less fortunate gravitator group.

Is there anyone here that took 6th grade chemistry or is a Jr. High School Graduate?

I've tried to be nice to you. Last warning.

I got the waterfall technique straight from reefers, people who run big fish tanks. Salt water and primitive fish (think trout) tanks both need lots of oxygen and lots of circulation and they were very clear about the fact that waterfalls both aerate and circulate better than air stones. That's called consulting with knowledgeable experts in the relevant field and it's something I do regularly, across as many disciplines as possible.

Now let's see some of your amazing plants, ace- or pipe the fuck down already.

 

[BabyLobsterito]

Now let's see some of your amazing plants, ace- or pipe the fuck down already.

Seriously though. Enough half-assed attempts at directing personal jabs at people and repeating yourself, this isn't IG.

If you're sure you have the right method, as you keep arguing, how about proving everyone else wrong by providing some actual credible proof?

 

[ttystikk]

Seriously though. Enough half-assed attempts at directing personal jabs at people and repeating yourself, this isn't IG.

If you're sure you have the right method, as you keep arguing, how about proving everyone else wrong by providing some actual credible proof?

Enough?

You're new here, so I get that you don't know who's known for what.

 

[ttystikk]

Seriously though. Enough half-assed attempts at directing personal jabs at people and repeating yourself, this isn't IG.

If you're sure you have the right method, as you keep arguing, how about proving everyone else wrong by providing some actual credible proof?

Now it's know it all's turn.

 

[BabyLobsterito]

Enough?

You're new here, so I get that you don't know who's known for what.

Wasn't directing that at you, hope it didn't come across that way. I've been here less than a week and know you back up what you say, and that you're knowledgeable. Was directed at Mr. Henry, as he makes these claims but hasn't provided the thread with any proof. I'm curious to see what backs the statements made.

 

[BabyLobsterito]

And I'm not saying this to get a rise out of everyone. Genuinely curious.

 

[ttystikk]

Wasn't directing that at you, hope it didn't come across that way. I've been here less than a week and know you back up what you say, and that you're knowledgeable. Was directed at Mr. Henry, as he makes these claims but hasn't provided the thread with any proof. I'm curious to see what backs the statements made.

Well, now punk ass @J Henry gets to put his pics up next to mine and put his nuggets where his nose is.

I'm not expecting him to have the balls.

BTW, for scale the trellis the plants are growing on has 4" squares. Three to a foot.

 

[BabyLobsterito]

Well, now punk ass @J Henry gets to put his pics up next to mine and put his nuggets where his nose is.

I'm not expecting him to have the balls.

BTW, for scale the trellis the plants are growing on has 4" squares. Three to a foot.

Hard to count the squares with all the colas in the way...
6' or so?
You've got me seriously considering a vertical grow... about ready to sleep in my closet so I can use my whole room lol.

 

[ttystikk]

Hard to count the squares with all the colas in the way...
6' or so?
You've got me seriously considering a vertical grow... about ready to sleep in my closet so I can use my whole room lol.

Yep. 6' tall x 4' across. Up to two pounds each. You can sleep in the middle of the room, these girls just climb the walls, lol

 

[BabyLobsterito]

You can sleep in the middle of the room

You mean the space for other plants lol. I could probably benefit from the vertical growth more with my T5 fixture anyways.

 

[HydroLynx]

I am so over DWC--10 years of changing 30kg + reservoirs is a pain, and those systems have less-than-optimal O2 levels. SO I have whipped up a "media-less flood and drain system". Now the pump wasn't turned back on that's why my crop half died. So HERE hydration is more important than oxygenation, as my roots theoretically self-oxygenate in-between flood cycles. I am using airpump + stones, but I'm experimenting on extra rootzone oxygenation. Although I must still lick those "gas-transfer equations" so I can model exactly how much O2 will passively dissolve into a thin film of water on the root. App with NFT it has high transfer rate, but apparent isn't fact. Any figures? My hypothesis is: how worth while is it to temporary drain the root mass in the name of extra O2 in a media-free flood n drain type system...

PS: FORUM DECORUM FFS.

 

[ttystikk]

I am so over DWC--10 years of changing 30kg + reservoirs is a pain, and those systems have less-than-optimal O2 levels. SO I have whipped up a "media-less flood and drain system". Now the pump wasn't turned back on that's why my crop half died. So HERE hydration is more important than oxygenation, as my roots theoretically self-oxygenate in-between flood cycles. I do have airpump + stones, but I'm experimenting on extra rootzone oxygenation. Although I must still lick those "gas-transfer equations" so I can model exactly how much O2 will passively dissolve into a thin film of water on the root. App with NFT it has high transfer rate, but apparent isn't fact. Any figures? My hypothesis is: how worth while is it to temporary drain the root mass in the name of extra O2 in a media-free flood n drain type system...

PS: F O R U M D E C O R U M FFS.

Bad pump? Mine generally failed when they were trying to start up. I could take it out and whack it and it would run, but it wouldn't come on reliably while unattended with a timer.

My RDWC runs its pump constantly so no such startup issue exists. Also the pump draws from the control bucket with a cooling coil in it and then pushes that water to waterfalls in each tub, thereby both oxygenating and agitating the water in each tubsite.

Why am I explaining all this? Because I've been through similar failures as you describe and I went through a process of driving out complexity, increasing reliability and taking advantage of a final failsafe feature of RDWC; the plants will stay alive for a day in the tubs even without water circulation, long enough for me to discover the problem and address it.

If the pump is reliable, ebb n flood tables work fine. Ya just gotta check it every day to make sure it's getting its water.

NFT runs continuously, same as RDWC. I've seen some that were cooled and others that weren't. Not much failsafe time in case of failure it clogging, though.

Aeroponic systems have the intermittent pump issue again- and all but zero buffer time to discover that it isn't working. No failsafe.

I had terrible luck with root rot in DWC, so I never tried to pursue it further; I just went straight to RDWC.

A system I set up for a friend with medical needs is as simple and robust as I could make it; ebb n flood tables get filled once a day on a timer. Plants are in 3 gallon buckets full of Tupur. They'll go an extra day without complaint and there's plenty of buffer to help ensure the plants survive a dry spell.

Hope this helps!

 

[HydroLynx]

Nah, I think because I'm so used to DWC that I literally forgot to switch the pump back on in my new active hydro system. Complacency.

No. What I mean is surface area of the water vs oxygen transfer rate into that water. Like can O2 dissolve quickly into a hanging wet root mass, say for a 15min drain period, before the root mass gets flooded again. I have a feeling to answer this I will have to lick the "gaseous transfer" formula, where O2 dissolving rate is a function of few variables like surface area and I would assume temp too. Unless there are ubiquitous surface-to-area vs O2 dissolving rate figures lying around somewhere here.