5x5 LED - T-Time grow time

[T-Time]

Hello,

Starting with compleatly new setup in a 5'x2,5' tent
To maximise the space I'm going to try growing verticaly. There are two rows of water rails one above another. The top one getting the water pumped up and the bottom one has a float valve installed. I wasn't sure if I want to go all out SIP style or hydro so I left it as a hybrid of both and will see how it goes it took me quite some time to finish this setup and I can't wait to see how it performs.
For now the plant were in Bio Bizz light mix, run under Californialightworks 110W Vegmaster and were transplanted to bigger containers with All Mix. I will feed them with water only for about a week and going to run a "Lucas Formula" with the Flora Nova Bloom after that.

So heres my setup:
-Seeds Royal Queen Critical
-Tent: 5x5 vertical flat plane
-18L air-pots
-Bio Bizz All Mix
-84L tote feeding 2 water rails holding about 3-5L each
- 20x COB CXB3590 DB 3500K water cooled
- TD Silent 150mm fan
- Rihno Pro 150x600 carbon filter

At the moment I'm running the lights at 200W 12" from the plants but it can go all the way up to ~950W. I will run them closer to 700W.

I am not an experienced grower by any means so any sugestions are wecome

 

[vertnugs]

Nice little setup.

 

[Rahz]

So lower level will grow up past the 2nd shelf?

Interesting setup. Would be curious to know g/sqft for a harvest.

 

[lukio]

lovin that! nicely done...hope it works out for ya

 

[T-Time]

So lower level will grow up past the 2nd shelf?

Interesting setup. Would be curious to know g/sqft for a harvest.

I calculated it so the lower level will grow up to the top of the upper pots (in front of them) and the top will take the remaining space up to the very ceiling (in front of the filter). Each level will have 5'x2,5' of vertical space. That of course if I won't mess up with the flip. How hard it can be ...

 

[Rahz]

I calculated it so the lower level will grow up to the top of the upper pots (in front of them) and the top will take the remaining space up to the very ceiling (in front of the filter).

Nice.

How long are you going to veg them?

 

[T-Time]

Nice.

How long are you going to veg them?

It's a first time I'm growing this strain so not sure yet. Plan is to give it about 4-5 weeks to fill the pots with roots , do a lot of LST and some topping and then flip. I know that I don't want to leave too many branches from one plant as had in previous grow. Too much popcorn and a nightmnare to trim. I'm thinking 8-10 colas from one plant should be plenty in that small space.

 

[ttystikk]

I've been known to do a few vertical grows in my time.

I think your project is interesting and innovative. I look forward to seeing how you do with it!

 

[vertnugs]

Would love to hear a bit more about your cob unit T.

You have that frame made?Almost looks like it was made just for that tent you're using.And what kind of tent is it?

 

[psychedelicdaddi]

 

[T-Time]

I've been known to do a few vertical grows in my time.

I think your project is interesting and innovative. I look forward to seeing how you do with it!

Thank You. I've seen Your work and its impressive
Interesting? Maybe. Innovative ? Not by a long shot. It's just a mix of well established growing methods. SIP, LED, vertical, DWC. I like to experiment a lot and have plenty of fun out of it. It doesn't always work tho. Lets hope this one does

Would love to hear a bit more about your cob unit T.

You have that frame made?Almost looks like it was made just for that tent you're using.And what kind of tent is it?

Yes, it was made just for this tent. To maximise the growing space as I am limited to it unfornately. Tent is cheap Black Box Silver measuring 200x150x80cm.
Lights were made with a alu tubes 50x30x3mm and 150cm in length. I got someone to weld the ends shut and then two tubes on the ends, one for water in and one for water out. The radiator box I've build for it has a VW heater core inside and its cooled with air pulled out of the tent. I've left the drivers attached to the frame as I was afraid that there wouldnt be enough heat inside the tent. If it will be, I'll move them outside the tent.
Lights have 2 loops. One loop has 10x CXB3590 DB 3500k cobs driven by one meanwell HLG-480h-C1400B driver , one potentiometer and one LCD display. Top and bottom bar are tilted IN slightly as the light would get reflected by the ceiling and the "floor" and thats a waste in my book.
Heres a quick drawing of the system. Hope it's clear enough.

 

[kony brado]

Thank You. I've seen Your work and its impressive
Interesting? Maybe. Innovative ? Not by a long shot. It's just a mix of well established growing methods. SIP, LED, vertical, DWC. I like to experiment a lot and have plenty of fun out of it. It doesn't always work tho. Lets hope this one does



Yes, it was made just for this tent. To maximise the growing space as I am limited to it unfornately. Tent is cheap Black Box Silver measuring 200x150x80cm.
Lights were made with a alu tubes 50x30x3mm and 150cm in length. I got someone to weld the ends shut and then two tubes on the ends, one for water in and one for water out. The radiator box I've build for it has a VW heater core inside and its cooled with air pulled out of the tent. I've left the drivers attached to the frame as I was afraid that there wouldnt be enough heat inside the tent. If it will be, I'll move them outside the tent.
Lights have 2 loops. One loop has 10x CXB3590 DB 3500k cobs driven by one meanwell HLG-480h-C1400B driver , one potentiometer and one LCD display. Top and bottom bar are tilted IN slightly as the light would get reflected by the ceiling and the "floor" and thats a waste in my book.
Heres a quick drawing of the system. Hope it's clear enough. View attachment 4017796

hi T
Cool setup.
Sorry for the ignorance ,can you explain hempy buckets?Is that a dwc, coco top feed mix?
I have some experience with critical mass hybrids ,they can starch some(not sure which one you got),i would top early to make a bush (and avoid a long main cola) and flower 30cm(1feet).i don't know about 4-5 week veg,sundes allot ,i guess 3-3.5 weeks.
thank's

 

[ttystikk]

Thank You. I've seen Your work and its impressive
Interesting? Maybe. Innovative ? Not by a long shot. It's just a mix of well established growing methods. SIP, LED, vertical, DWC. I like to experiment a lot and have plenty of fun out of it. It doesn't always work tho. Lets hope this one does



Yes, it was made just for this tent. To maximise the growing space as I am limited to it unfornately. Tent is cheap Black Box Silver measuring 200x150x80cm.
Lights were made with a alu tubes 50x30x3mm and 150cm in length. I got someone to weld the ends shut and then two tubes on the ends, one for water in and one for water out. The radiator box I've build for it has a VW heater core inside and its cooled with air pulled out of the tent. I've left the drivers attached to the frame as I was afraid that there wouldnt be enough heat inside the tent. If it will be, I'll move them outside the tent.
Lights have 2 loops. One loop has 10x CXB3590 DB 3500k cobs driven by one meanwell HLG-480h-C1400B driver , one potentiometer and one LCD display. Top and bottom bar are tilted IN slightly as the light would get reflected by the ceiling and the "floor" and thats a waste in my book.
Heres a quick drawing of the system. Hope it's clear enough. View attachment 4017796

Innovation almost always consists of the inspired combination of established ideas. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[nfhiggs]

hi T
Cool setup.
Sorry for the ignorance ,can you explain hempy buckets?Is that a dwc, coco top feed mix?
I have some experience with critical mass hybrids ,they can starch some(not sure which one you got),i would top early to make a bush (and avoid a long main cola) and flower 30cm(1feet).i don't know about 4-5 week veg,sundes allot ,i guess 3-3.5 weeks.
thank's

Not to be critical of OP, but that really does not look anything like Hempy Buckets, as I understand them. Hempy is an ordinary bucket, filled with coco, perlite, rockwool or a combination of soilless media. You make a drain hole in the side of the bucket about two inches up from the bottom. Then you put an elbow inside so it pulls the water from the very bottom. Its also called a Dutch Bucket.

I don't really see how airpots would function as a hempy bucket because there is no reservoir of water at the bottom.

 

[Prawn Connery]

I was also wondering about this system. It looks like a hybrid NFT/SIP system using NFT channel to recirculate a nutrient solution under the bottom of the pots which waters the soil using capillary action, whilst any roots that grow through the bottom of the pots into the channels would be nutrient film fed. The drying action of the air pots is what draws the nutrient solution up from the bottom.

I may have the wrong idea, but if it is what I think it is, then my main advice - because I've experimented with hybrid soil/hydro systems in the past - would be to ditch the soil and use straight coco with an organic-based nutrient solution. The main reason is because it's hard to balance the nutrient solution when the soil in the pots also contains nutrients.

A wise many once told me "Never underestimate the nutritional value of soil".

Another reason is that soil can fall into the nutrient channels and eventually foul your lines or pump (though this can happen with coco, as well - ask me how I know!). The soil that falls in can also upset the nutrient balance in the reservoir.

Now, both these issues can be managed if you keep an eye on things, but one final thing you need to remember is that SIP systems - especially nutrient-fed systems (as opposed to plain water) - are very prone to salt build-up/nutrient toxicity. What happens is, the nutrient solution gets sucked up through the pots through capillary action and then dries out, leaving any unused salts suspended in the soil/medium. Your plants will continue to feed, but the nutrients they don't use will continue to build up in the pots.

This is a gradual process that is not apparent at first, until you start to see a salt build-up on the surface of the pots, or your plants show signs of toxicity.

A very good example of this in nature is the type of salinity you see around farmlands where trees have been cut down and the water table rises, bringing salt and nutrients to the surface, where the water dries out leaving the salts to toxify the surrounding soil.

With a top-fed system - drip-fed soil, coco or recirculating hydro etc - there is no nutrient build-up, because each watering action flushes the pots (well, there is a small amount of build-up, but that's for another discussion). So the solution to your system's potential problem is to ensure you flush your pots regularly with plain water from the top, and change you nutrient solution regularly (just like you do in DWC and other water cultures).

If there is something I've missed, then please allow me to apologise in advance. But here's an idea: if you want to continue growing with soil - or even organic coco - you could run a drip-feed or timed irrigation system to the top of the pots, fed by a reservoir, and use the NFT channel to collect and drain the waste - effectively turning it into a run-to-waste (RTW) system.

Contrary to popular belief, a good RTW system will use less nutrient solution than recirculating hydro and is much more reliable and vastly easier to control nutrient levels - because your plants get fed a fresh batch of correctly balanced nutrients each watering, whilst the waste nutrient is flushed away.

Just my 2c based on lots of years of growing many different ways . . .

 

[kony brado]

Not to be critical of OP, but that really does not look anything like Hempy Buckets, as I understand them. Hempy is an ordinary bucket, filled with coco, perlite, rockwool or a combination of soilless media. You make a drain hole in the side of the bucket about two inches up from the bottom. Then you put an elbow inside so it pulls the water from the very bottom. Its also called a Dutch Bucket.

I don't really see how airpots would function as a hempy bucket because there is no reservoir of water at the bottom.

thanks
So hempy bucket is a duch bucket that retain more water(if you use coco ,rokcwool and not just perlite)and based on capillary action.

@Prawn Connery
i culdnt agree more. run to waist is my method too after many experience with different systems ,and checking your waist is the key to know whats going on .I like my waist to be 0.1-0.2 points(ec) less than my solution ,than i know the plants are feeding on the nutrients with no buildup . less is more in my book
thanks

 

[T-Time]

Not to be critical of OP, but that really does not look anything like Hempy Buckets, as I understand them. Hempy is an ordinary bucket, filled with coco, perlite, rockwool or a combination of soilless media. You make a drain hole in the side of the bucket about two inches up from the bottom. Then you put an elbow inside so it pulls the water from the very bottom. Its also called a Dutch Bucket.

I don't really see how airpots would function as a hempy bucket because there is no reservoir of water at the bottom.

Maybe I'm using a wrong term for it.
The air pots have a small 3" net pod sticking out the bottom and are filled with soil. The net pod is submerged in water that is flowing it the gutter which is supplied from the main nutrient tank. I can't see it working in any other way then a hempy bucket,but the only difference is media that is in a pot.
Other way to describe it would be SIP with external supplying nutrient tank.

I was also wondering about this system. It looks like a hybrid NFT/SIP system using NFT channel to recirculate a nutrient solution under the bottom of the pots which waters the soil using capillary action, whilst any roots that grow through the bottom of the pots into the channels would be nutrient film fed. The drying action of the air pots is what draws the nutrient solution up from the bottom.

I may have the wrong idea, but if it is what I think it is, then my main advice - because I've experimented with hybrid soil/hydro systems in the past - would be to ditch the soil and use straight coco with an organic-based nutrient solution. The main reason is because it's hard to balance the nutrient solution when the soil in the pots also contains nutrients.

A wise many once told me "Never underestimate the nutritional value of soil".

Another reason is that soil can fall into the nutrient channels and eventually foul your lines or pump (though this can happen with coco, as well - ask me how I know!). The soil that falls in can also upset the nutrient balance in the reservoir.

Now, both these issues can be managed if you keep an eye on things, but one final thing you need to remember is that SIP systems - especially nutrient-fed systems (as opposed to plain water) - are very prone to salt build-up/nutrient toxicity. What happens is, the nutrient solution gets sucked up through the pots through capillary action and then dries out, leaving any unused salts suspended in the soil/medium. Your plants will continue to feed, but the nutrients they don't use will continue to build up in the pots.

This is a gradual process that is not apparent at first, until you start to see a salt build-up on the surface of the pots, or your plants show signs of toxicity.

A very good example of this in nature is the type of salinity you see around farmlands where trees have been cut down and the water table rises, bringing salt and nutrients to the surface, where the water dries out leaving the salts to toxify the surrounding soil.

With a top-fed system - drip-fed soil, coco or recirculating hydro etc - there is no nutrient build-up, because each watering action flushes the pots (well, there is a small amount of build-up, but that's for another discussion). So the solution to your system's potential problem is to ensure you flush your pots regularly with plain water from the top, and change you nutrient solution regularly (just like you do in DWC and other water cultures).

If there is something I've missed, then please allow me to apologise in advance. But here's an idea: if you want to continue growing with soil - or even organic coco - you could run a drip-feed or timed irrigation system to the top of the pots, fed by a reservoir, and use the NFT channel to collect and drain the waste - effectively turning it into a run-to-waste (RTW) system.

Contrary to popular belief, a good RTW system will use less nutrient solution than recirculating hydro and is much more reliable and vastly easier to control nutrient levels - because your plants get fed a fresh batch of correctly balanced nutrients each watering, whilst the waste nutrient is flushed away.

Just my 2c based on lots of years of growing many different ways . . .

Much appraciate Your suggestions.
I was aware of some of those problems, some I didn't think about. I would like to build my own organic soil and actualy have most of the ingredients to do so but some of them are hard to get on the old continent and If I would get a good supplier for those I would switch to organic soil with just plain water in a heart beat. I'm trying to replicate Clackamas Coots recipe from build a soil. I'll have to check again what I'm missing when I get home and will look fot those again.

 

[Prawn Connery]

less is more in my book
thanks

"Less is more" is one of the secrets to growing. Everyone is tempted to push the nutrient boundary, but once you burn those roots, the plant has to expend valuable energy repairing and regrowing them. Run-to-waste is pretty fool-proof.

Of course "Less is more" does not apply to lighting - except when you get to extremes. My mantra there is "More is more" - as long as you don't burn or bleach anything!

T-Time - nothing wrong with good old organic soil. But I must confess, the reason I went organic hydro (coco, to all intents, is hydro) is that it's actually easier to manage. Coco provides the buffering benefits of an organic substrate whilst providing accelerated growth through hydroponic feeding. And if you use an organic-based hydroponic nutrient, you also get the taste with all the added microbial benefits to the roots.

 

[ttystikk]

Lots of interesting ways to skin the same cat going on in here!

Rather than trying to say one is best, I'm struck by the variety of approaches that produce good results.

 

[T-Time]

One of the ladies looks like that.
Should I pull it out and plant a normal one? Never seen anything like that.
I've got spares for this kind of ocasions

EDIT:
I think I'll do that tonight. Don't like how it looks. Must be bad genetics