Functional illiteracy in America

see4

Well-Known Member
when the bank orders fed notes for the vault, or for the computer, what prompts the order?

personally I'm not making a specie backed argument at present, i read the coinage act and the window closed, duh.

say that note in your pocket that you conflate as a dollar was born in the bailout, still not debt?

say it was created when some guy took out a loan for a car, still not debt?

I'm not making a jew conspiracy argument either, or any conspiracy.

but the note in your wallet isn't a dollar and is redeemable in lawful money.

that said, the constitution protects your right to contract outside of it and use any money system you want....

you have lots of options there but you can only pay taxes with one elastic fiat variety and that's the catch.
listen man, and i mean this with all sincerity, i don't care.

i know what im talking about, i was paid by a top financial institution to know this sort of shit.. think what you want, it really means absolutely nothing to me.

the fact remains, The Federal Reserve is a government entity and a Federal Reserve Note is not debt. plain and simple, done and done. say whatever it is that you want to say, you can't change facts.

let's all agree to disagree.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
I bought that at 18 with not much down ... you just bought your first home in your mid 30s and had to carry pmi insurance because you are a risky loan. winning.
im on my 5th house. i buy a car or two every year. ive traveled to more countries than many americans have traveled to states. and im in my mid to late 30s... whats your point?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
I went to a state school. I would like to see those loans restricted to certain majors as well. With many majors, we are just saddling kids with debt and leaving them worse off than they would have been foregoing college.
or perhaps students can take personal responsibility for their actions?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
We have already been through this. Use your search function you tiring bore.
I think the point of his request was to see if you could actual substantiate your claim... i suspect he's already done the leg work behind the scene, just wants you to stand by what you say.

wouldn't it be satisfying to substantiate your claim? I know i love to do that.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I bought that at 18 with not much down ... you just bought your first home in your mid 30s and had to carry pmi insurance because you are a risky loan. winning.
i have over $100k in equity in the home my wife and i bought.

you lost your 20% down payment, 10 years worth of mortgage payments, and live in a trailer that will depreciate to $0.00

i will let others decide who is doing better at this whole investing in a home thing.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
listen man, and i mean this with all sincerity, i don't care.

i know what im talking about, i was paid by a top financial institution to know this sort of shit.. think what you want, it really means absolutely nothing to me.

the fact remains, The Federal Reserve is a government entity and a Federal Reserve Note is not debt. plain and simple, done and done. say whatever it is that you want to say, you can't change facts.

let's all agree to disagree.
yes lets. I'm sure the word redemption is just something we can never agree to define.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
i have over $100k in equity in the home my wife and i bought.

you lost your 20% down payment, 10 years worth of mortgage payments, and live in a trailer that will depreciate to $0.00

i will let others decide who is doing better at this whole investing in a home thing.
awesome bo. I'm glad ferya. hope you collect on it someday.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
or perhaps students can take personal responsibility for their actions?
Why accrue interest on student loans? Why ensure they can't be expunged through bankruptcy?

Do you view investment in America's education system as a financial burden?
 

see4

Well-Known Member

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Because it's a loan and the government aren't your parents.
OK, so why are auto or mortgage loans still forgivable through bankruptcy?

Do you believe that if you take out a loan, no matter what happens, you should be legally and financially responsible for paying it back, even if said loan was accepted upon the basis of fraudulent claims as to the value of the product you're investing the loan into?

So cheats and thieves don't take out loans for tuition only to declare them away in bankruptcy without collateral.
Do you know what the number or percentage of people who do that is? In other words, the amount of fraud involved in people who take out student loans who never pay them back?
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
OK, so why are auto or mortgage loans still forgivable through bankruptcy?

Do you believe that if you take out a loan, no matter what happens, you should be legally and financially responsible for paying it back, even if said loan was accepted upon the basis of fraudulent claims as to the value of the product you're investing the loan into?


Do you know what the number or percentage of people who do that is? In other words, the amount of fraud involved in people who take out student loans who never pay them back?
are you making a case for artificially low government supplied auto loans?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
OK, so why are auto or mortgage loans still forgivable through bankruptcy?
Auto and mortgage loans are secured. The automobile or the home are used as collateral for the loan.

Do you believe that if you take out a loan, no matter what happens, you should be legally and financially responsible for paying it back, even if said loan was accepted upon the basis of fraudulent claims as to the value of the product you're investing the loan into?
Underwriters determine the value, both at present and future of the instrument they are investing. You can't get a $20,000 loan for a $10,000 car.

Do you know what the number or percentage of people who do that is? In other words, the amount of fraud involved in people who take out student loans who never pay them back?
Not sure. But it's pretty low, because in order to get out from under a student loan, one must successfully prove undue hardship.
 

PCXV

Well-Known Member
A State-government run school guaranteed you a job when you got out of college?

I'm all for tuition free college for deserving students.

There are lower cost alternatives to consider before signing a student loan too. It's not as if there are zero choices other than taking on huge debt.

I think there should be a way to wipe out student loans. But the discussion has to take place in congress. The people of this country need to weigh in on what to do and how to do it.
They didn't promise a job but their sales pitch did mislead with false statistics on job placement rates and projected earnings with a collegr degree. There were other options, much better options, and hindsight is 20/20.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
awesome bo. I'm glad ferya. hope you collect on it someday.
i'm really happy for you.

your trailer will depreciate to $0.00

if you had stuck with that shitty, backwoods south carolina home of yours, you wouldn't have lost your 20% down payment and 20 years worth of mortgage payments.

oh well. i guess some people just understand investing and money better than others.

sincerely,

a jew
 

see4

Well-Known Member
The commercial institutions (Chase, Wells Fargo, et al) are under obligation to pay the Federal Reserve Banks the money 'borrowed'. You and I are not under the same obligation. Prior to Nixon we didn't care because the money was backed by gold. Now it is backed by faith.

I repeat, Federal Reserve Notes are not debt. And The Federal Reserve is a government entity.

When you used your cool highlighting pen, you forgot the key point... reserve banks. Not see4 and twostroke.
 

PCXV

Well-Known Member
or perhaps students can take personal responsibility for their actions?
Maybe I haven't seen it yet, but are saying that the school and/or lending institutions bear no responsibility for recieving/approving unsecured, subsidized loans without any assurance that they would be able to be paid back? They did literally zero due diligence to lend that money, weren't they taking just as much of a risk as I was? Or did they not care and have zero incentive because they knew I couldn't default? It all seems very unethical to me. So many 18 year olds are not ready for that decision, that was my biggest mistake. Taking a "year off" before starting college was heavily warned against at that time, said you would never end up going. Man I was dumb to take some of that advice and jump into debt without a guarantee.

But it seems you refuse to address anyone's responsibility but the student who traded going tens of thousands of dollars in unbankruptable debt for something of no value.
 
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see4

Well-Known Member
Maybe I haven't seen it yet, but are saying that the school and/or lending institutions bear no responsibility for recieving/approving unsecured, subsidized loans without any assurance that they would be able to be paid back? They did literally zero due diligence to lend that money, weren't they taking just as much of a risk as I was? Or did they not care and have zero incentive because they knew I couldn't default? It all seems very unethical to me.
They issued you the loan because they knew you'd likely pay it back whether you liked it or not. That's the point.

If the bankruptcy rule goes away, do you know what would happen? I will give you a hint. Smart people, wealthy people and foreigners would all be going to college and the others would have almost no chance. Or instead of paying a 2% interest student loan, you'd pay a 29% interest personal loan, that you'd have to start paying back right away.

See where this is heading?
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
The commercial institutions (Chase, Wells Fargo, et al) are under obligation to pay the Federal Reserve Banks the money 'borrowed'. You and I are not under the same obligation. Prior to Nixon we didn't care because the money was backed by gold. Now it is backed by faith.

I repeat, Federal Reserve Notes are not debt. And The Federal Reserve is a government entity.

When you used your cool highlighting pen, you forgot the key point... reserve banks. Not see4 and twostroke.
reserve banks and reserve agents, for no other purpose. do you beleive this elasticity in our currency has helped the fed in its mission statement?
 
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