HLG-550 vs PLC-6

[Victor6634]

I thought it was around 900 to a 1000 bucks?

1049 now they had a discount of 20% I believe but it’s no longer valid it was a Xmas special

 

[pirg420]

If you can pick up the 550 right now for 20% off there is nothing made today by any company that will offer more value.

Id have to beg to differ on that one. BC Blondes 550 is 8 CXB 3590 DB chips running at 550 wattts(62.5 watts per chip) Which are more efficient then VERO 29 B's run at 95 watts, 18inch X 18 inch fixture for $849 canadian or approximately $678 USD. No one comes close on price to BCB.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Id have to beg to differ on that one. BC Blondes 550 is 8 CXB 3590 DB chips running at 550 wattts(62.5 watts per chip) Which are more efficient then VERO 29 B's run at 95 watts, 18inch X 18 inch fixture for $849 canadian or approximately $678 USD. No one comes close on price to BCB.

*on paper*. ........ show us some sphere data on your units? ...... we already have the cxb #s.

Fyi, quantum boards have confirmed +2ppf/w

Have a nice day

 

[Stephenj37826]

Check growershouse and hydrobuilder.com

 

[ANC]

DO yopu know off hand what it is for 315CMH ? I suspect 1.6 ish?

 

[pirg420]

*on paper*. ........ show us some sphere data on your units? ...... we already have the cxb #s.

Fyi, quantum boards have confirmed +2ppf/w

Have a nice day

Im not against quantum boards, we are bringing out a new model based on that technology as well. But paying through the ass for it is lame.

My sphere is not big enough to fit that fixture.

Everyone knows that CXB 3590 dbs grow fat fucking buds, everyone turned away from them because of the cost, but when you buy from BCB that cost parameter has been removed because BCB is the most affordable premium leds on the market and we believe that everyone should be able to afford high end low heat LED grow lamps.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Im not against quantum boards, we are bringing out a new model based on that technology as well. But paying through the ass for it is lame.

My sphere is not big enough to fit that fixture.

Everyone knows that CXB 3590 dbs grow fat fucking buds, everyone turned away from them because of the cost, but when you buy from BCB that cost parameter has been removed because BCB is the most affordable premium leds on the market and we believe that everyone should be able to afford high end low heat LED grow lamps.

"Lame" is subjective.........ppf/w, umol/j is not

 

[PSUAGRO.]

DO yopu know off hand what it is for 315CMH ? I suspect 1.6 ish?

It's 1.96 ppf/w before reflector losses..... so around that is a decent guess

Vert, bare bulb your in the upper tier at a cheaper entry level...... with cons of course

Edit... that ppf/w # reflects Phillips elite agro 3100k 315w , not shitty copycat bulbs.

 

[ANC]

Thanks, don't see everyone trying to help as grow cops, many intend for you to benefit by pointing out what you may feel are small things the3y are just picking on.

With HID, you can pretty much hang your light at the predetermined height and go with that. A simple recipe repeated thousands of times. With DIY lights, it may be wise to invest in a par meter because your eyes can tell you very little of what the plants see.

 

[Greengenes707]

Id have to beg to differ on that one. BC Blondes 550 is 8 CXB 3590 DB chips running at 550 wattts(62.5 watts per chip) Which are more efficient then VERO 29 B's run at 95 watts, 18inch X 18 inch fixture for $849 canadian or approximately $678 USD. No one comes close on price to BCB.

No they're not. Put them in a sphere and do the actual testing. Hype only goes so far bro.

And if we really want to be apples to apples....vero29C vs CXB3590 is $:$ basically...favoring the vero actually by $2 in addition to the performance at even near double the watts. And is over 2.0µmols/w at ~95w. While the CXB needs to be underdriven and over cooled very significantly just to come close to the passive high wattage efficiency of the vero29 B&C's.


EDIT:
And lets not forget the $2 holder you also need for the 3590...the hole keeps getting deeper.

 

[since1991]

Are you all led manufacturers or close to and rub elbows with the builders..and touting your wares as being the best on these threads in order to attract business??? Because Iam confused. And if your banking on grower ignorance by confusion...thats some jive ass shit.

 

[mr. childs]

No they're not. Put them in a sphere and do the actual testing. Hype only goes so far bro.

And if we really want to be apples to apples....vero29C vs CXB3590 is $:$ basically...favoring the vero actually by $2 in addition to the performance at even near double the watts. And is over 2.0µmols/w at ~95w. While the CXB needs to be underdriven and over cooled very significantly just to come close to the passive high wattage efficiency of the vero29 B&C's.


EDIT:
And lets not forget the $2 holder you also need for the 3590...the hole keeps getting deeper.

but do the veros produce better flowers in your opinion?

 

[pirg420]

No they're not. Put them in a sphere and do the actual testing. Hype only goes so far bro.

And if we really want to be apples to apples....vero29C vs CXB3590 is $:$ basically...favoring the vero actually by $2 in addition to the performance at even near double the watts. And is over 2.0µmols/w at ~95w. While the CXB needs to be underdriven and over cooled very significantly just to come close to the passive high wattage efficiency of the vero29 B&C's.


EDIT:
And lets not forget the $2 holder you also need for the 3590...the hole keeps getting deeper.

Youre comparing prices of parts , im comparing prices of fixtures. Big difference. Im not talking DIY, but Bcblondes prices are the ONLY fixtures that are comparable to DIY prices.

All 3 of these lights are similar in actual output/ppfd/ppf/efficiency/wattage etc. How ever, the prices are vastly different

Lets compare fixtures and price:

Bcblondes 550 watt $675 USD CXB3590 DB 62.5 watts with active cooling
vs
PLC6 590 watts $799 USD VERO 29 (i think its a B)95 watts per chip passive cooling
vs
HLG 510 watt HLG 550 for $908 USD with LM561C diodes


95 watts per cob is horrible for headroom/clearance, you need to have the light higher because of the intensity of the individual cobs. This is exactly why we havnt gone this route. Its great for shops/warehouses with high ceilings but not for tents.

The arguments you are making only pertain to manufacturers and or DIY'ers, (cost of parts, number of parts etc), not to customers who buy whole fixtures. customers care about overall par output and end fixture price.

The active heatsinks on the Bcblondes fixture run at 28-33 degrees. You cant touch that with passive. Passive usually runs at 40-55 Celsius. Nothing like buying a expensive chip and running it hotter and losing some of the efficiency you just paid for because of the extra heat.

Sphere data is great for testing parts and figuring out efficiency's between chips and configurations etc, but its not real world. Also its only ONE measurement which tells us very little about how the light/par would be spread around the tent/grow area

Par maps are real world.

Ive taken the time to setup my testing tent to create a par map with the same mapping footprint and heights etc as the one found on the hlg 550 website here: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-550 . I chose the reflective tent 4x4 at 22 inches as my test to duplicate.

BCB 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 27235 (3500k) (apogee mq-200, elec mode, 22 inches to the housing, not the chip, chip is probably 24 inches away)
HLG 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 20625 (3000k i think?)

Im blown away at how far back the hlg 550 is (25% difference), some of that difference is attributed to the difference in color temps 3500 vs 3000, but definitely not all of it, I thought it was going to be slightly better than the BCB550. Samsung 561cs are great diodes but they only achieve that really high lm/watt rating when run softer(like everything) which means you need more diodes if you want more efficiency.

Im now thinking the PLC6 would rank between the BCB550 and the HLG550, but cant be exactly sure until we see a par map with these exact same conditions, but i know for a fact that VERO 29 Bs run at 95 watts dont come close to CXB3590 DB's at 62.5 watts. (Ive tested the D's (yes i said D), head to head vs the db's (at the same wattage, can be found in my par mapping the world thread)and the vero 29 D's are about 2-4% less par output then the DB, and from the datasheets the B's are worse then the D's. (compared by watts).

If you have very limited head room, get a HLG 550
If you hate fans and want a good deal, get a PLC 6
If you want the most par output for the least amount of money, get a BCB 550.

All 3 are excellent lights, but i refuse to sit idle when i see information being spread that is incorrect.

I hope everyone had an awesome christmas and hope that the new year brings you prosperity and large frosty buds!

Here are the pictures documenting my test of a BCB550 fixture on a reflective 4x4 at 22 inches to housing at 22 degrees room temp.

 

[pirg420]

Im also doing a contest, anyone who can grow the best plant in a sphere, will get a free BCB 275.

 

[Stephenj37826]

Youre comparing prices of parts , im comparing prices of fixtures. Big difference. Im not talking DIY, but Bcblondes prices are the ONLY fixtures that are comparable to DIY prices.

All 3 of these lights are similar in actual output/ppfd/ppf/efficiency/wattage etc. How ever, the prices are vastly different

Lets compare fixtures and price:

Bcblondes 550 watt $675 USD CXB3590 DB 62.5 watts with active cooling
vs
PLC6 590 watts $799 USD VERO 29 (i think its a B)95 watts per chip passive cooling
vs
HLG 510 watt HLG 550 for $908 USD with LM561C diodes


95 watts per cob is horrible for headroom/clearance, you need to have the light higher because of the intensity of the individual cobs. This is exactly why we havnt gone this route. Its great for shops/warehouses with high ceilings but not for tents.

The arguments you are making only pertain to manufacturers and or DIY'ers, (cost of parts, number of parts etc), not to customers who buy whole fixtures. customers care about overall par output and end fixture price.

The active heatsinks on the Bcblondes fixture run at 28-33 degrees. You cant touch that with passive. Passive usually runs at 40-55 Celsius. Nothing like buying a expensive chip and running it hotter and losing some of the efficiency you just paid for because of the extra heat.

Sphere data is great for testing parts and figuring out efficiency's between chips and configurations etc, but its not real world. Also its only ONE measurement which tells us very little about how the light/par would be spread around the tent/grow area

Par maps are real world.

Ive taken the time to setup my testing tent to create a par map with the same mapping footprint and heights etc as the one found on the hlg 550 website here: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-550 . I chose the reflective tent 4x4 at 22 inches as my test to duplicate.

BCB 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 27235 (3500k) (apogee mq-200, elec mode, 22 inches to the housing, not the chip, chip is probably 24 inches away)
HLG 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 20625 (3000k i think?)

Im blown away at how far back the hlg 550 is (25% difference), some of that difference is attributed to the difference in color temps 3500 vs 3000, but definitely not all of it, I thought it was going to be slightly better than the BCB550. Samsung 561cs are great diodes but they only achieve that really high lm/watt rating when run softer(like everything) which means you need more diodes if you want more efficiency.

Im now thinking the PLC6 would rank between the BCB550 and the HLG550, but cant be exactly sure until we see a par map with these exact same conditions, but i know for a fact that VERO 29 Bs run at 95 watts dont come close to CXB3590 DB's at 62.5 watts. (Ive tested the D's (yes i said D), head to head vs the db's (at the same wattage, can be found in my par mapping the world thread)and the vero 29 D's are about 2-4% less par output then the DB, and from the datasheets the B's are worse then the D's. (compared by watts).

If you have very limited head room, get a HLG 550
If you hate fans and want a good deal, get a PLC 6
If you want the most par output for the least amount of money, get a BCB 550.

All 3 are excellent lights, but i refuse to sit idle when i see information being spread that is incorrect.

I hope everyone had an awesome christmas and hope that the new year brings you prosperity and large frosty buds!

Here are the pictures documenting my test of a BCB550 fixture on a reflective 4x4 at 22 inches to housing at 22 degrees room temp.

View attachment 4066054 View attachment 4066055 View attachment 4066056 View attachment 4066057 View attachment 4066058 View attachment 4066059 View attachment 4066060 View attachment 4066061

#1 yes cct makes a difference as we have more light that falls past 700 nm which is still helpful (Emerson effect ect). #2 Our fixture doesn't use secondary optics. At 18" the center numbers are higher while the outside numbers do not suffer equalling a higher count. Your test is not accurate as it gives the inside 1' area 5/33 or 15% of the total value when it represents only a little over 6% of the grow space.

Also your pricing is direct sales only. Ours is a TRUE MSRP. Meaning you can expect to pay this at multiple retailers..... Send links to your retailers.

#3 Send your unit to an independent lab like we did. Then share the results. I assure you the HLG-550 is a beast and puts out more light per watt and total. This unit really shines in an overlapping light pattern(multiple fixtures in a room).

Sorry you feel left out with the title of this thread....


Also we use a radiospectrometer for measuring which tests at 3-5% lower than a sq120 apogee.

 

[pirg420]

#1 yes cct makes a difference as we have more light that falls past 700 nm which is still helpful (Emerson effect ect). #2 Our fixture doesn't use secondary optics. At 18" the center numbers are higher while the outside numbers do not suffer equalling a higher count. Your test is not accurate as it gives the inside 1' area 5/33 or 15% of the total value when it represents only a little over 6% of the grow space.

Also your pricing is direct sales only. Ours is a TRUE MSRP. Meaning you can expect to pay this at multiple retailers..... Send links to your retailers.

#3 Send your unit to an independent lab like we did. Then share the results. I assure you the HLG-550 is a beast and puts out more light per watt and total. This unit really shines in an overlapping light pattern(multiple fixtures in a room).

Sorry you feel left out with the title of this thread....


Also we use a radiospectrometer for measuring which tests at 3-5% lower than a sq120 apogee.

Thanks for replying @Stephenj37826 .

The reason i used that style of a par map is because thats what you have on your website, so i tried to make it as much apples to apples as possible. Also fairly easy for a customer to test themselves.

Ok i see what you mean, my light is more tailored to the 9 readings in the middle, and yours is more spread out. So lets eliminate the 9 readings in the middle. on your light its 7800 and on mine is 10681. so 27235-10681= 16554, and on your light, 20625-7800=12825. Thats still a 23% difference.
Even if we just compare the outside readings, its 4005 vs 3405 which is a 8.5% difference in favor of BCB.

Fair point about using dealers, i sell ALOT locally (most of my business) and im competing with the price of gavita and regular 1000 hps since im converting hps guys to led mostly, if we used dealers our prices would be higher. I used the best price i could find for your light which was $908 usd from GH to be as fair as possible.

Spheres dont mean much to me, par readings taken from the top of the plants or a par map inside a grow room or grow tent are what matter. Are you guys testing your whole fixtures in spheres? or just chips and then extrapolating?

Thanks for the reply Stephen, you guys have very nice lights and im not trying to make enemies, i just feel there is a VERY viable 3rd option here that is not getting recommended.

 

[Greengenes707]

Youre comparing prices of parts , im comparing prices of fixtures. Big difference. Im not talking DIY, but Bcblondes prices are the ONLY fixtures that are comparable to DIY prices.

All 3 of these lights are similar in actual output/ppfd/ppf/efficiency/wattage etc. How ever, the prices are vastly different

Lets compare fixtures and price:

Bcblondes 550 watt $675 USD CXB3590 DB 62.5 watts with active cooling
vs
PLC6 590 watts $799 USD VERO 29 (i think its a B)95 watts per chip passive cooling
vs
HLG 510 watt HLG 550 for $908 USD with LM561C diodes


95 watts per cob is horrible for headroom/clearance, you need to have the light higher because of the intensity of the individual cobs. This is exactly why we havnt gone this route. Its great for shops/warehouses with high ceilings but not for tents.

The arguments you are making only pertain to manufacturers and or DIY'ers, (cost of parts, number of parts etc), not to customers who buy whole fixtures. customers care about overall par output and end fixture price.

The active heatsinks on the Bcblondes fixture run at 28-33 degrees. You cant touch that with passive. Passive usually runs at 40-55 Celsius. Nothing like buying a expensive chip and running it hotter and losing some of the efficiency you just paid for because of the extra heat.

Sphere data is great for testing parts and figuring out efficiency's between chips and configurations etc, but its not real world. Also its only ONE measurement which tells us very little about how the light/par would be spread around the tent/grow area

Par maps are real world.

Ive taken the time to setup my testing tent to create a par map with the same mapping footprint and heights etc as the one found on the hlg 550 website here: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-550 . I chose the reflective tent 4x4 at 22 inches as my test to duplicate.

BCB 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 27235 (3500k) (apogee mq-200, elec mode, 22 inches to the housing, not the chip, chip is probably 24 inches away)
HLG 550 Total PPF 4x4 22": 20625 (3000k i think?)

Im blown away at how far back the hlg 550 is (25% difference), some of that difference is attributed to the difference in color temps 3500 vs 3000, but definitely not all of it, I thought it was going to be slightly better than the BCB550. Samsung 561cs are great diodes but they only achieve that really high lm/watt rating when run softer(like everything) which means you need more diodes if you want more efficiency.

Im now thinking the PLC6 would rank between the BCB550 and the HLG550, but cant be exactly sure until we see a par map with these exact same conditions, but i know for a fact that VERO 29 Bs run at 95 watts dont come close to CXB3590 DB's at 62.5 watts. (Ive tested the D's (yes i said D), head to head vs the db's (at the same wattage, can be found in my par mapping the world thread)and the vero 29 D's are about 2-4% less par output then the DB, and from the datasheets the B's are worse then the D's. (compared by watts).

If you have very limited head room, get a HLG 550
If you hate fans and want a good deal, get a PLC 6
If you want the most par output for the least amount of money, get a BCB 550.

All 3 are excellent lights, but i refuse to sit idle when i see information being spread that is incorrect.

I hope everyone had an awesome christmas and hope that the new year brings you prosperity and large frosty buds!

Here are the pictures documenting my test of a BCB550 fixture on a reflective 4x4 at 22 inches to housing at 22 degrees room temp.

View attachment 4066054 View attachment 4066055 View attachment 4066056 View attachment 4066057 View attachment 4066058 View attachment 4066059 View attachment 4066060 View attachment 4066061

I don’t have time to read all this now.but your very very far off reality outputs. Put it in a sphere and get off your data sheet hype. End of story. And will tell you how wrong your story is. And when you get the correct output numbers, you can then compare and see how many photons your missing out on, and claiming to have.

 

[pirg420]

I don’t have time to read all this now.but your very very far off reality outputs. Put it in a sphere and get off your data sheet hype. End of story. And will tell you how wrong your story is. And when you get the correct output numbers, you can then compare and see how many photons your missing out on, and claiming to have.

So your claiming that 6 x vero 29 B's run at 95 watts with passive cooling, is more efficient than 8 x cxb 3590 DB's run at 62.5 watts with active cooling, you're completely delusional. Please prove me wrong.

 

[Greengenes707]

So your claiming that 6 x vero 29 B's run at 95 watts with passive cooling, is more efficient than 8 x cxb 3590 DB's run at 62.5 watts with active cooling, you're completely delusional. Please prove me wrong.

Are you really saying that putting complete fixtures off the production lines into spheres and gonios from a certified 3rd party testing facilities and using the real world and actual output of the fixture to publish and make comparisons with is being delusional?
Provide your sphere or gonio testing. And yes, you will see that the veros put out more light...per watt and overall. If you stopped humping data sheets and actually did the real world testing(which is full fixture sphere and gonio testing) you will see that and why a cree partner such as PLC doesn’t run CXB or the new CMA. Simple as that hot shot. Get your fixture tested and provide the numbers and get into the real world of publishing 3rd party verified testing numbers.

So if you really wanted to offer the best product you would change chips and it would also lower your cost and the customer. But sounds like you don’t care about make a better product or providing real numbers. Only attempting to hype and over state while providing a lesser performing product.

but i refuse to sit idle when i see information being spread that is incorrect.

You're the only one here spreading false information.VVVVVVVVV

and from the datasheets the B's are worse then the D's. (compared by watts).

You need to learn to read data sheets. You can't even do that it seems based on this false info your spreading.

Im also doing a contest, anyone who can grow the best plant in a sphere, will get a free BCB 275.

Why don't you learn what a goniometer is and what it's used for. Stop cherry picking and deflecting with reductio ad absurdum.

 

[key4]

a cree partner such as PLC doesn’t run CXB or the new CMA

Very interested in the cma3090 numbers and why you wouldnt use them?

e2a watched the q&a. Got my answer.