Understanding COB vs HID

[CobKits]

no worries. i think you can see why comparing two different areas are like apples and oranges and why people make a point to clarify that. put yourself in the shoes of a total noob it makes for a confusing discussion if you stumble across it.

 

[wietefras]

1013 PPFD in half a meter. I have a friend growing with a 400w HPS, and the plant is stretchy and super skinny, despite the light being 8-12” above it. Nowhere near as healthy and happy as what I grow.

You can't compare PPFD to PPF.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

You can't compare PPFD to PPF.

I wasn’t comparing PPF to PPFD. It’s 1013 PPFD in half a meter. I never said anything about PPF. You did.

 

[dangledo]

1013 PPFD in half a meter. I have a friend growing with a 400w HPS, and the plant is stretchy and super skinny, despite the light being 8-12” above it. Nowhere near as healthy and happy as what I grow.

Sounds like the operator error

 

[wietefras]

I wasn’t comparing PPF to PPFD. It’s 1013 PPFD in half a meter. I never said anything about PPF. You did.

Da fuq? I mentioned a few PPF values and you offered a PPFD spot measurement in return. If not to compare to those PPF values, what was I supposed to do with that then? Nothing really, because it's incomparable ...

Skinny plants under HPS are because it's 1800K to 2000K. Try growing a plant under led of that color and see how it develops. That's why HPS growers also use MH to grow and then flower under HPS.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

...let me stop you right here, do not I repeat DO NOT reproduce.


That is something you should seriously consider doing, we had this argument nearly a year ago and you still haven't learned anything.


A square YARD is 3'x3'. A square meter is 39.37"x39.37". 1,296in2 vs 1,550in2. Where is your math???



We certainly have done no such thing.

We did. 1013 PPFD in roughly a half meter (0.466). I believe CobKits did the math for me and corrected me. So, relatively, a microgrower or closet grower would have the power of a 600w HPS in a half-meter 18” above the canopy.

I have a daughter. And if you’d say that to my face, I would bust the teeth out of your mouth and make a necklace for her.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Sure ya would

So we’re in agreement over the corrected math then, right? I’m talking application-based. If CobKits’s math is correct, a closet or microgrower would get 1013 PPFD ( I think we said 54-56x18 for the three other emitters, .466 with the 200w unit ) which is in the 600w HPS range.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

That’s not really the greatest way to compare, I can put out the same ppfd with my phones led as a 1000w de if I confine it to a small enough area.

Your phone’s LED? I have no clue what you mean. If you mean your phone’s screen or camera flash, no you cannot.

Honestly, I am helping out a friend with his grow and took a plant to him. He’s using 400w HPS and the plant looks skinny and stretchy. Not healthy at all. From 8-12” above.

 

[dangledo]

Your phone’s LED? I have no clue what you mean. If you mean your phone’s screen or camera flash, no you cannot.

Honestly, I am helping out a friend with his grow and took a plant to him. He’s using 400w HPS and the plant looks skinny and stretchy. Not healthy at all. From 8-12” above.

Your friend's ability should be in question, rather than the 400 watter.

Plenty grows in the 400 hps club spanking your 250 watt led

Not saying that led light couldn't compare to one, just that you're not.

 

[wietefras]

So we’re in agreement over the corrected math then, right? I’m talking application-based. If CobKits’s math is correct, a closet or microgrower would get 1013 PPFD ( I think we said 54-56x18 for the three other emitters, .466 with the 200w unit ) which is in the 600w HPS range.

Did you measure average PPFD over the whole area?

If it's just one spot measurement then it's completely useless.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Did you measure average PPFD over the whole area?

If it's just one spot measurement then it's completely useless.

It’s not. The emitters spread it over a 5sqft/0.466 meters at 18” above the canopy. It’s measured right after it’s assembled. CobKits calculated it separately with no background information except the factors in the equation.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Your friend's ability should be in question, rather than the 400 watter.

Plenty grows in the 400 hps club spanking your 250 watt led

Not saying that led light couldn't compare to one, just that you're not.

Whatever you say. We’ll see how this run goes.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

The problem is that you STILL do not understand that ppfd is relative to square area. Take a 1000 watt DE and use it to light a 100 sq/ft area and then use my phones led (yes camera flash) to light a 1 square centimeter area which one do you think puts out more ppfd? Do you really think everyone else is wrong and you are right?

CobKits confirmed the reading independently. Relative to the growing area, which is viable for 1-2 decent sized plants, I’m right.

PPFD reading in the 5sq.ft./0.466sq.m. area was 1013. What part of that did you not get? I am talking about a “square area.”

No, a phone flash will never equate to 1000w DE. Maybe on a scale completely irrelevant to what we’re doing here. Maybe for, like.. burning ants with a magnifying glass.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

You still don't understand, ...sad

What am I not understanding? It covers the area I need covered in 1013 PPFD using 200w. 600w HPS will deliver that intensity to a square meter, I believe. I don’t need to cover a square meter.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

A lot unfortunately.

Sounds more like you’re projecting.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I'd probably say the same thing if I had no idea what I was talking about and I was too embarrassed to admit it.

But I literally explained why I’m right, and you haven’t come up with a rebuttal.

Not only that, I did say a few posts back that I’m not an electrician. I’m not afraid to admit I miscomprehended something, but CobKits helped me figure out the step I was missing and inadvertently confirmed that, in the space that I was referring to, 5sq.ft./0.466 meters, I do, indeed, have 1013 PPFD, and a 600w HPS puts out about 900-1200 PPFD, so in the space I need to light, I do have the intensity of a 600w HPS over half a square meter. Not a full square meter, which is what a 600w HPS covers, but I have the intensity of it confined to the space I need for 200w.

 

[CobKits]

But I literally explained why I’m right, and you haven’t come up with a rebuttal.

Not only that, I did say a few posts back that I’m not an electrician. I’m not afraid to admit I misapprehended something, but CobKits helped me figure out the step I was missing and inadvertently confirmed that, in the space that I was referring to, 5sq.ft./0.466 meters, I do, indeed, have 1013 PPFD, and a 600w HPS puts out about 900-1200 PPFD, so in the space I need to light, I do have the intensity of a 600w HPS over half a square meter. Not a full square meter, which is what a 600w HPS covers, but I have the intensity of it confined to the space I need for 200w.

as someone said you can create the intensity of a 600W HPS with the LED on your phone over a small area. there is nothing special about 150,250,400,600,1000W HPS or any type of LED or fluorescent that allows any of them to achieve intensity the other techs cant.

yes your 250W light can create the same intensity of a 600 or 1000W HPS over a given area, but comparing/equating them is completely irrelevant and misleading.

HQ LED will always be 25-40% more efficient tham HID.

calling it more than twice as efficient is like saying the 3W LED from my cell phone* is brighter than a gavita at 1100W** and thus is 300X more efficient.

*over a 1"x1" area
**over a 10' x10' area

its an utterly meaningless comparison, and misleading and confusing to people who are new to the LED scene

 

[GreenHighlander]

I have zero LED experience so I clicked on the thread because of the title.
I have no idea what is even being fought about or the point of it lol
Cheers

 

[Olive Drab Green]

as someone said you can create the intensity of a 600W HPS with the LED on your phone over a small area. there is nothing special about 150,250,400,600,1000W HPS or any type of LED or fluorescent that allows any of them to achieve intensity the other techs cant.

yes your 250W light can create the same intensity of a 600 or 1000W HPS over a given area, but comparing/equating them is completely irrelevant and misleading.

HQ LED will always be 25-40% more efficient tham HID.

calling it more than twice as efficient is like saying the 3W LED from my cell phone* is brighter than a gavita at 1100W** and thus is 300X more efficient.

*over a 1"x1" area
**over a 10' x10' area

its an utterly meaningless comparison, and misleading and confusing to people who are new to the LED scene

I just figured it would help people who just want to grow one or two medium sized plants, not on the “industry standard scale” you guys have decided to come up with. I’m just saying, it will be sufficient for a new grower looking to have a good, small personal grow. I don’t think it’s confusing at all. You know that I’m technically right. Not wholly, but technically.

 

[CobKits]

You know that I’m technically right. Not wholly, but technically.

sorry i wont concede this. you're literally the only person in the thread that believes that.