LED Thread regarding stalk weight difference between LED & HPS

[HydroEnthused]

I am of the belief that HPS has its obvious situational advantages.....but so do PROPERLY calculated LED designs....

I hope you're right. After looking at all these super sized grow ops in Colorado and Nevada outfitted with a multitude of LED's it makes me wonder. To go so big with a particular method it must have it's advantages. Recently retrofitted all the lighting throughout the multi billion dollar industrial complex where I work (where I work during the day has nothing to do with growing) and let me tell ya, its a lot brighter throughout the facility everywhere except for the building with the very high airplane hanger height ceiling.
But those were old LED fixtures that we used for that extremely high ceiling and we're getting new ones that are supposed to be much brighter to penetrate all that depth. By chance, it was that high ceiling that was first retrofitted (years before the remainder of the facility) and that's what made me skeptical about LED's. But after seeing how well the recent LED retrofits worked in the areas with ceiling heights more comparable to a grow room, I've since changed my mind and I'm willing to give it a real thorough try.

 

[Chip Green]

much brighter to penetrate all that depth

Right, and the COB emitters they are likely using are some of the VERY same that the underground DIY LED grow "lamps" are being built with....
You have a HUGE advantage over most, being a master electrician, this stuff will be real easy to understand....
Go on YouTube, watch the Growmau5 DIY LED series (7 parts), you'll be falling into the wormhole.....
Visit the sub forum LED and other lighting , under indoor growing....Some really sharp cats in there.....
Birds of a feather....

 

[HydroEnthused]

Awesome!! I really need another wormhole to fall into. I'm an OCD nut and I recently wired everything I could possibly wire in my existing grow and I was starting to get bored with nothing to wrap my mind around. But theres always room for improvement. I'm gonna be very busy trimming as soon as I finish this post up until Monday but I'm gonna find some time in between to plan this lighting rig. I'll be back tomorrow with my findings and I'm depending on you guys for criticism and much needed input. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Chip Green]

claims do not translate to yeilds

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

 

[Lucky Luke]

I haven't looked into it yet, but these HLG 550's are 510 watts total ? The 600 watt hps is more in the neighborhood of around 650-660 watts with the heat losses from the ballast core so 510 watts for the same performance would be a....(get ready for the banal)... game changer.

If the HPS loses watts due to its design why penalise the LED? It should be watt for watt power draw.

 

[chiqifella]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131119101108.htm
https://gpnmag.com/article/led-lighting-and-its-effect-plants-growers-and-world/

Here’s a couple. I had some others for a research paper I’ll have to dig up.

yes, thank you for the links. As always the positives of led are focused on vegetative growth.
We all know led performs well with lettuce basil and growing any other leafy material. They fail though
when it comes to cannabis flowers. Not saying many are not happy with their failed results either, I get it.

Put the bud to a lab, then measure brix during the flowering cycle and you'll see the light just does not perform well yet

 

[churchhaze]

How could there possibly still be people who think LEDs can't flower in 2018? Seriously, did I accidentally find a time machine and then accidentally turn it on?

The only place HPS is still winning is opportunity cost is lower, allowing you to setup a greater area faster and making money as early as possible. This is why I still recommend it for people with large footprints. It's a proven recipe for success.

LED has been outperforming in output power per input power (efficiency) for years now. I'm still using generation 1 vero 18 I've been using for 4 years now and I still grin every single time I harvest. To upgrade, I recently switched out the gen1 veros for gen 7 for a plug and play upgrade. I can't wait for the upgrade in yield. With gen 1, I was getting about 300g with a 240W lamp on average.

This is why I recommend LED for tents. For a hobbiest, LED is where it's at.

It's also made T5 obsolete. If you're vegging with T5, you could be saving so much money and stop wasting tubes with underdriven leds..

 

[Chip Green]

Looks like another substandard yield, this guy should've never switched from DE to LED......

 

[Kingrow1]

Looks like another substandard yield, this guy should've never switched from DE to LED......

His yeilds were more with DE, read and stop being such a noob.

 

[Kingrow1]

LED has been outperforming in output power per input power (efficiency) for years now. I'm still using generation 1 vero 18 I've been using for 4 years now and I still grin every single time I harvest. To upgrade, I recently switched out the gen1 veros for gen 7 for a plug and play upgrade. I can't wait for the upgrade in yield. With gen 1, I was getting about 300g with a 240W lamp on average.

Shit i use to think you were good but with noob ststements like led has been outperforming hps for years i just think your a fake....!

 

[Kingrow1]

Led hype, it gets everywhere...

 

[Chip Green]

His yeilds were more with DE, read and stop being such a noob

Yes historically, with 1600w more electricity consumed.....
600w QBs in place of each 1000w hps.... hit his average with 40% LESS JUICE.....
Fact.

 

[gwheels]

Math don't lie I love math because of its unwavering reality.

 

[sparkygeek]

I'd rather conduct the experiment on a "production" scale. 1 x 600 would only be lab scale. A pilot plant, no pun intended.

Just make sure you use an LED system that uses the same actual power. (real watts - I can't believe I had to type real.) Otherwise the LED folks might be very disappointed! BTW, a friend conducted a similar test comparing a 150 watt HPS against a 200 watt (actual watts - not the puffed up 400 comparable watt spec.) My friend's test didn't isolate all the variables that you've proposed but it was reasonable nonetheless. The LED was a first generation COB, actual wattage rating of 200 watts, "comparable watts" rating of 400 watts. The LED produced the most leaves... Probably why they use them for salad greens. The HPS produced more meds... Understandable because leaves typically have less meds than the flowers! Like I said, the test was intentionally crude but, the test, combined with his relative disappointment with LED grown meds he sampled from other growers, he finally stopped asking me to build him an LED light. Although the test was a year ago, a relative eternity with semiconductor technology, I would not expect a significant difference... Primarily because the problems that exist are nasty but also because LED vendors still use that bogus comparable watt spec. (Indicating they know they still need hype to sell product.) Love to see your results! Have a good one!

 

[NanoGadget]

None of the reputable led companies use equivalency any more. Timber, HLG, CobKits.... the only equivalency you'll find with them is data sheets showing par and ppfd comparisons. So when @Stephenj37826 or @CobKits say that a particular configuration of lights or a particular fixture is acceptable to replace a certain HID it is because the light output has been accurately measured and found to match or exceed the HID in question. Vipar, Mars, and the rest of the snake oil pushers are the ones using bullshit equivalency numbers. But anyone with any real knowledge of led grow lights wrote those companies off long ago. I find it telling that people use the worst of the field to discredit the the ones who are going about things the right way.

 

[churchhaze]

Shit i use to think you were good but with noob ststements like led has been outperforming hps for years i just think your a fake....!

Outperform is somewhat of an understatement.

You still not manageing to beat HPS yields yet shows your own inexperience. I have been doing it for years now.

Even noobs that make a ton of mistakes with newer LEDs tend to to outperform pros with HPS that get everything right.

The whole argument is dumb because I know for a fact that I'm kicking ass with 240W of gen 1 veros. I don't need to convince you.

 

[Chip Green]

I would not expect a significant difference

With a watt for watt match, with PROPERLY designed LED "lamps", using quality components, the LED will be able to produce the same levels of PAR output, using the same ammount energy, over a LARGER footprint, leading to a larger yield....
It is a certainty.

 

[churchhaze]

Just make sure you use an LED system that uses the same actual power. (real watts - I can't believe I had to type real.) Otherwise the LED folks might be very disappointed!

If you bought a lamp that draws fewer watts than it advertises by an appreciable amount, it pretty much says the light is a piece of crap. The fact that it draws less power than advertised is the least of your worries.

To go a step further, if the lamp doesn't say what bins it uses, it's probably also shit (vero doesn't have bins though)

 

[Kingrow1]

Outperform is somewhat of an understatement.

You still not manageing to beat HPS yields yet shows your own inexperience. I have been doing it for years now.

Even noobs that make a ton of mistakes with newer LEDs tend to to outperform pros with HPS that get everything right.

The whole argument is dumb because I know for a fact that I'm kicking ass with 240W of gen 1 veros. I don't need to convince you.

No, as i have stated before (should you not have read my points) it is the site and then the hydro shops that are pulling out of led you need to convince.

First this site - We have seen all the evidence, leds dont outperform leds because the highest yeilds have come from hps - troll that fact please

Secondly - Whilst you think they are amazing many shops and growers are walking away from them saying they are overated and overhyped - growers better than you and i i might add.

So keep going with that tact of some special way to use leds and all that other crap, i just flick the switch, if it dosent grow well it aint well....

 

[Kingrow1]

Yes historically, with 1600w more electricity consumed.....
600w QBs in place of each 1000w hps.... hit his average with 40% LESS JUICE.....
Fact.

Please, now were back to leds being 40% more light than hids....

Not even the sensible growers would support this load of shite...."!