The Fog of War in America

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
rollitup said:
Once again, you liberals just don't understand the "progressive" intellect. This constant know-nothing blather of his IS good debating skills. Only he has those skills, too, the rest of us are just posting gibberish.


:mrgreen:
Click to expand...
No, y'all are just angry that everyone doesn't agree with every word you say. Frankly, the 'liberals' here are the most intolerant ones. We Progressives are far more willing to listen and engage in honest debate.

THAT'S sad, especially in a politics section.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
really? not the white supremacists?
Click to expand...
You, specifically, are without qualification the most intolerant one here.

I'm not suggesting you open your arms to the parade of bigots but your angry mean-spiritedness does the cause no favors. It becomes too easy to hate you for being an asshole and ignore the points you make.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
rollitup said:
Thanks for proving my point once again. :lol:


:mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Look man, take a little responsibility. You encourage the tone here by allowing it to get so extreme. It drives people away, which cheapens the debate AND costs you eyeballs- more than I'll bet you're willing to admit. It's your forum; your profit margin is up to you.

I know several forums that got their start and built their member base with former RIU members specifically because Buck habitually acts like such a prick that tons of people can't stand him- even when they agree with his positions.

That sets an angry tone that others see as acceptable so they follow suit and the whole thing spirals into a shitposting contest that spreads across nearly every thread in politics and occasionally beyond. That isn't good for anyone and indeed it hurts the community here.

I'm not defending the bigots and I understand people's feelings about them, but the excessive nastiness isn't necessary. To be clear on this point, y'all drive away a lot of people who AREN'T bigots, sexists, right wing extremists, etc. They're looking for mature debate and when they see the poo flinging that goes on here, they leave. And they take their expertise in the cannabis industry and elsewhere with them.

I even understand that you have a point of view on the world, most of which I happen to agree with. It would be nice to discuss the deadly serious issues of our modern world (and of course the not so serious ones too) here without being so damned grade school Jerry Spinger about it.

See? I can make a point and respect yours without calling you names. Isn't that refreshing?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
really? not that guy @legalcanada , who is literally a national socialist and says we need to kill the jews?

or @Ripped Farmer , who says we need to murder illegal immigrants?
Click to expand...
It's not your positions, it's your attitude.

I completely agree with you that many of the points of view expressed here are indeed vile and incompatible with decent society and I'm absolutely not defending them. But your increasingly extreme nastiness- yes, you've actually gotten worse over time- allows them to ignore what you say and focus instead on how you come across.

Frankly, it's a self defeating approach.

You're driving away those who are listening and open to new ideas. Those you get banned just come back under another sock. How pointless is that?

For awhile I even adopted your extremist tone and I found that not only was I less persuasive but I didn't like how I came across or the persona I was becoming. So I changed up and tried not to be the angriest one in the room and it has been a lot more effective. To the extent that I've failed I offer my sincere apologies and the excuse that it's easier to sink into the swamp than remain above it. I'm trying but I'm also human.

I've been watching you for years here and I'm still wondering how a guy as smart as you are hasn't figured this out for yourself yet.

Maybe it's an act and you're really a nice guy in person. I hope so. Maybe you have high blood pressure, a raging ulcer, no friends and a looming divorce. I sincerely hope not, because I think your heart is in the right place and that you feel you're doing good work. For that matter, so do I; challenging the racists, the sectarians, the authoritarians, the self centered IS an honorable quest, endless though it may be.

Maybe you're just here to vent your spleen, but I doubt it; you spend too much time here for that. If your mission is really to change minds, then consider that dialing down your angry tone is likely to make a more lasting impact.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
It's not your positions, it's your attitude.

I completely agree with you that many of the points of view expressed here are indeed vile and incompatible with decent society and I'm absolutely not defending them. But your increasingly extreme nastiness- yes, you've actually gotten worse over time- allows them to ignore what you say and focus instead on how you come across.

Frankly, it's a self defeating approach.

You're driving away those who are listening and open to new ideas. Those you get banned just come back under another sock. How pointless is that?

For awhile I even adopted your extremist tone and I found that not only was I less persuasive but I didn't like how I came across or the persona I was becoming. So I changed up and tried not to be the angriest one in the room and it has been a lot more effective. To the extent that I've failed I offer my sincere apologies and the excuse that it's easier to sink into the swamp than remain above it. I'm trying but I'm also human.

I've been watching you for years here and I'm still wondering how a guy as smart as you are hasn't figured this out for yourself yet.

Maybe it's an act and you're really a nice guy in person. I hope so. Maybe you have high blood pressure, a raging ulcer, no friends and a looming divorce. I sincerely hope not, because I think your heart is in the right place and that you feel you're doing good work. For that matter, so do I; challenging the racists, the sectarians, the authoritarians, the self centered IS an honorable quest, endless though it may be.

Maybe you're just here to vent your spleen, but I doubt it; you spend too much time here for that. If your mission is really to change minds, then consider that dialing down your angry tone is likely to make a more lasting impact.
Click to expand...
so you think i am more intolerant than the nazi who wants to kill all jews?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
so you think i am more intolerant than the nazi who wants to kill all jews?
Click to expand...
Did you notice that I spent a lot of time there trying to tell you that I agree with you most of the time?

If you have an issue with the specific term, might I suggest 'belligerent' instead?

To directly answer your question, I think you have every right to challenge the bigots and extremists- and I said so.

The point I made is that your tone is self defeating. It allows those who disagree with you to focus on your angry attitude than your point. I've seen it over and over.

I'm not suggesting that you give them a free pass, far from it! That said, reasoned argument carries much more weight than simple vitriol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top