Random Jibber Jabber Thread

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Fubard

Well-Known Member
Slicing is only one part of surgery, though.

And as for your second part, that varies from country to country and when, like here, companies do struggle to fill posts despite the growth in population then I question that too.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
ANC said:
I dunno man, you saw how shit a surgeon cuts compared to the robot.
Bottom line is, populations are growing, jobs are declining.
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Currently surgeons work with robots. We have intraoperative flourescence on the new Zeiss neuro microscopes that makes recognition of Glioblastoma a walk in the park today. Something machines are better at than the human eye.

As we get better about surpassing our own physical limitations the question begs do we enhance the human or create machines. I think transhumanism is not going to go as easily as creating machines.

The surgeons will train their replacements. There will be mistakes, just look at Therac-25 and realize today no radiation therapy is done without a computer algorithm. Essentially we have to face the fact that we will, relatively soon, be living in a time when no one has to work and the machines we have created can do better, including their own maintenance and eventual creation. Where do we go from there is going to get very interesting.
https://www.zeiss.com/meditec/us/products/neurosurgery.html

This is my experience, ymmv.
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Fubard said:
Self checkouts at supermarkets here still have a human presence for the inevitable times things go wrong, age check for alcohol and tobacco and, of course, to deter theft.

Concerts/cinemas? Still have the human there to make sure the ticket gets scanned properly and validated. Buying may be fully automated if you wish, but the human is still there. Same goes for McVomits, the majority of the work is done by humans.

You don't have packs of robots stacking shelves in the supermarkets, that's still manpower, same goes with buying stuff from Amazon or whoever.

Banks still need humans to fill the ATM's and to do other things such as sort out loans, etc.

Oh, and they'll never make a robot as adept at nicking things from your suitcase at the airport as the typical baggage handler is, same goes for the mail.

What I'm getting at is that there are limitations to automation which, despite all that has been said over the last 3 decades (and longer), have still not been breached and the reality is that it will take a hell of a lot longer than people think to breach these limitations and for such things to be accepted.

And as for ANC's robot "security guard", well, I want a kilo of what whoever dreamt that up was smoking because that has to be the ultimate in gimmicks but as much use, in reality, as a fart in a spacesuit.

Oh, and how good is that robot surgeon at spotting something that a trained and experienced surgeon could see? Could it spot a potential cancerous tumour, as an example, whilst cutting out a cyst or would it just do what it was told and cut out the cyst and leave the suspicious growth behind? So many variables there, and a great potential for things to go wrong.

All I'm saying is that there are limitations and that they will not be breached in our lifetimes, nor the lifetimes of the next two generations. Otherwise we wouldn't have airline pilots now as airliners have had the capability of taking off, flying from A to B and then landing without a human needing to touch the controls for a couple of decades now, but when that type of automation has a brainfart we all know what the consequences will be and that's why it's still better to have someone who knows what he's doing at the controls, and the same has been shown with self-driving cars as Uber found out the hard way.
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O of cause we still have humans working, just less of them which was the point of my post, and we always will but the job pool is shrinking and shrinking fast.
That's not necessarily a bad thing and we human's can just relax or party or travel. It will be left to what will become the working poor to look after our automated "stuff".
 
Drowning-Man

Drowning-Man

Well-Known Member
Please pray for me, I feel I might be pulling the E brake on this ride, it's just to painfully. Can't save the invisible man from drowning, no one can.
 
F

Fubard

Well-Known Member
Drowning-Man said:
Thanks to psychiatry, we now have living breathing human robots.
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No, that's not because of psychiatry but the over-reliance of chemicals which turn people into zombies.

I don't deny that I am on such a chemical, but the difference is that I take the lowest dose possible to help stabilise my mood swings so I can still function as normally as anyone as buggered as I am can. And several years ago, after seeing one too many loved ones drop dead with no warning in front of me, I went completely off the rails and ended up having to spend time in a psych ward thanks to the severe depression I had. The shrink there was not amused at me because I refused to be medicated as per her wishes, even though my head was all to hell I still knew that what I needed was help coming to terms with what had happened and clouding my mind with all sorts of uppers, downers and "sidewaysers" was not going to help me do that.

It's easy to rely on pills, you don't have to address the issues which are at the root of the "problem". Much easier, pop a pill and float away, the problem is still there though and that means you'll be reliant on mind-bending drugs for life until you grasp that bull by the horns and slap it down.

Oh, I ain't saying that applies to all, not by any means. I live with someone who is full blown bipolar, with a hint of paranoid schizophrenia, and she does need the assortment of meds she takes daily to keep her stable. But, again, the dosage is at a level where you wouldn't think she was on so many pills, she looks and acts perfectly normally and isn't shuffling around like some sort of zombie because of over-medication.

That's where the problem lies, over-medication, and when the PATIENTS are the ones demanding happy pills because it's fashionable to be diagnosed with some sort of "condition", or the healthcare system is unable to cope with the numbers who need "help" (many of whom, in reality, don't need such "help" but need to get their act together) so pills get handed out like candy, then that is when it's time someone stood up and said "ENOUGH" for the current so-called treatments are not helping the patients or society in general, it's time things were changed.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Fubard said:
No, that's not because of psychiatry but the over-reliance of chemicals which turn people into zombies.

I don't deny that I am on such a chemical, but the difference is that I take the lowest dose possible to help stabilise my mood swings so I can still function as normally as anyone as buggered as I am can. And several years ago, after seeing one too many loved ones drop dead with no warning in front of me, I went completely off the rails and ended up having to spend time in a psych ward thanks to the severe depression I had. The shrink there was not amused at me because I refused to be medicated as per her wishes, even though my head was all to hell I still knew that what I needed was help coming to terms with what had happened and clouding my mind with all sorts of uppers, downers and "sidewaysers" was not going to help me do that.

It's easy to rely on pills, you don't have to address the issues which are at the root of the "problem". Much easier, pop a pill and float away, the problem is still there though and that means you'll be reliant on mind-bending drugs for life until you grasp that bull by the horns and slap it down.

Oh, I ain't saying that applies to all, not by any means. I live with someone who is full blown bipolar, with a hint of paranoid schizophrenia, and she does need the assortment of meds she takes daily to keep her stable. But, again, the dosage is at a level where you wouldn't think she was on so many pills, she looks and acts perfectly normally and isn't shuffling around like some sort of zombie because of over-medication.

That's where the problem lies, over-medication, and when the PATIENTS are the ones demanding happy pills because it's fashionable to be diagnosed with some sort of "condition", or the healthcare system is unable to cope with the numbers who need "help" (many of whom, in reality, don't need such "help" but need to get their act together) so pills get handed out like candy, then that is when it's time someone stood up and said "ENOUGH" for the current so-called treatments are not helping the patients or society in general, it's time things were changed.
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Are you a mental health professional?
If not, how can you say people just need to "get their act together"?

Reminds me of the unhelpful advice I got while suffering from depression...
"You should get out and do something fun. No wonder you're depressed!" :dunce:
 
F

Fubard

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Are you a mental health professional?
If not, how can you say people just need to "get their act together"?

Reminds me of the unhelpful advice I got while suffering from depression...
"You should get out and do something fun. No wonder you're depressed!" :dunce:
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Experience of seeing too many people making claims that they must have something wrong with them when the reality is that they just want to be labelled with "something" rather than address what are simple issues.

And given that I've suffered depression, and more, for my entire life I do have the tendency to recognise the signs of who actually has a problem and who is trying to pull a fast one for assorted reasons.

You don't like hearing that, that's not my problem.

PS. I've also done voluntary work at the psych place I was in as a thank you for the help they gave me. They tried to encourage me to go for the qualifications to become said type of professional, but I decided not to. I saw plenty things there, the genuine and those faking, and it doesn't take long to tell the difference when confronted with such things on such a regular basis. Try it yourself, volunteer to help those with mental health issues, you'll soon see the same as I did.
 
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Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Fubard said:
Experience of seeing too many people making claims that they must have something wrong with them when the reality is that they just want to be labelled with "something" rather than address what are simple issues.

And given that I've suffered depression, and more, for my entire life I do have the tendency to recognise the signs of who actually has a problem and who is trying to pull a fast one for assorted reasons.

You don't like hearing that, that's not my problem.
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Having depression does not make you an expert on mental health.

I don't like people making generalizations when they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Don't be a condescending dickhead.
 
F

Fubard

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Having depression does not make you an expert on mental health.

I don't like people making generalizations when they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Don't be a condescending dickhead.
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So don't be like you, for you have just done what you are telling me not to do.

Is "Hypocrite" your middle name?
 
F

Fubard

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
LOL
You aren't very smart. :clap:

Please show me where I made generalizations about people suffering from mental illness?
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You're clearly dimmer than a 1w lightbulb, for you're not only putting words in that were not said to you but are ignoring the two words which show your hypocrisy.

For the record, they are "Condescending" and "Dickhead", which you clearly proved yourself to be because you didn't like some brutal honesty from someone.

But you just sit there being an internet warrior spouting shite to satisfy your obviously fragile ego, I'll continue to laugh at your attempts to belittle someone who has openly stated the experience that his opinion is based upon, which is clearly more than you will ever have.

Unless you're going to volunteer to help out at a mental health facility, giving those who need the one thing necessary called being able to talk to someone without being judged, as I did.

Do have a nice day.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Fubard said:
You're clearly dimmer than a 1w lightbulb, for you're not only putting words in that were not said to you but are ignoring the two words which show your hypocrisy.

For the record, they are "Condescending" and "Dickhead", which you clearly proved yourself to be because you didn't like some brutal honesty from someone.

But you just sit there being an internet warrior spouting shite to satisfy your obviously fragile ego, I'll continue to laugh at your attempts to belittle someone who has openly stated the experience that his opinion is based upon, which is clearly more than you will ever have.

Unless you're going to volunteer to help out at a mental health facility, giving those who need the one thing necessary called being able to talk to someone without being judged, as I did.

Do have a nice day.
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"Brutal honesty"?
LOL
That's cute.

I actually feel sorry for angry people with closed minds (like you).
But they're still annoying -- like yappy little dogs.
Don't wanna kick em; just wish they'd shut the fuck up.

Hugs & kisses :-P
 
mr sunshine

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
That's ironic as hell. :roll:

Humans are drawn to things that are familiar -- even if they're harmful.
DM keeps doing the same stupid shit over and over... :dunce:
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Yeah, it's quite sad and annoying as fuck too. After you reach a certain age you can't blame other people for the shit you're doing. Drowning in cum guy places the blame for his demise on his family instead of the fact that he's smoking meth. Oh well, it's his shitty life not mine.
 
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