Harley Davidson moving to Thailand....thanks trump MAGA

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
We have a system of checks and balances and regular elections.

And I said of course it all leans towards the money. I think corporate greed and political greed are tied together but still independent of each other. In fact using each other rather than colluding as commonly thought.
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Everybody within the "checks and balances" system, is on the same team in the big picture and gets paid the same way.

Elections do not represent a real choice, they represent a choice within a confined setup.

 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
We have a system in place. Grow up and make the best of it. You say this stuff all the time but there is no solution offered.
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Wouldn't grownups be able to figure out how to live in a more respectful world than the one that presently exists?

The solution is to stop believing in the Most Dangerous Superstition...or read the book by Larken Rose.


 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
so a $30 million increase in costs due to trump tariffs has nothing to do with their decision. got it. you're retarded.
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He is at least partially right.

The plan to produce Harleys in Asia has been around for good a few years before Trump, due to roaring economic growth (with an increase in disposable income) and the ensuing demand for luxury items.

The tariffs however put the company's domestic production at risk, probably leading to issues that haven't even been announced yet.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
He is at least partially right.

The plan to produce Harleys in Asia has been around for good a few years before Trump, due to roaring economic growth (with an increase in disposable income) and the ensuing demand for luxury items.

The tariffs however put the company's domestic production at risk, probably leading to issues that haven't even been announced yet.
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I read that article too and thought HDMC was a bit mendacious when they said it was about expanding foreign sales. There was no consideration mentioned for making those bikes here and selling them overseas. Why would it matter where they are made? Why not make them here?
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I read that article too and thought HDMC was a bit mendacious when they said it was about expanding foreign sales. There was no consideration mentioned for making that bikes here and selling them overseas. Why would it matter where they are made? Why not make them here?
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There's basically legal slave labor over there.

Labor is the biggest cost any company has to bear, it's also expensive to ship the sort of quantities they're expecting to sell.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
There's basically legal slave labor over there.

Labor is the biggest cost any company has to bear, it's also expensive to ship the sort of quantities they're expecting to sell.
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Then in the interests of protecting our industries and US jobs, let's fight for equality of workers rights.

It's doubtful that Harley Motorcycles labor costs make up the largest fraction of total costs.

This from the Harvard Business Review:

Today, product lines and marketing channels have proliferated. Direct labor now represents a small fraction of corporate costs, while expenses covering factory support operations, marketing, distribution, engineering, and other overhead functions have exploded. But most companies still allocate these rising overhead and support costs by their diminishing direct labor base or, as with marketing and distribution costs, not at all.

https://hbr.org/1988/09/measure-costs-right-make-the-right-decisions

I've been involved with several tech transfers to offshore sites. Direct labor costs weren't the driver. In one case it was favorable taxation. In another, it was subsidized R&D. In most cases, expenses went up because of quality issues due to an inexperienced workforce.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Then in the interests of protecting our industries and US jobs, let's fight for equality of workers rights.

It's doubtful that Harley Motorcycles labor costs make up the largest fraction of total costs.

This from the Harvard Business Review:

Today, product lines and marketing channels have proliferated. Direct labor now represents a small fraction of corporate costs, while expenses covering factory support operations, marketing, distribution, engineering, and other overhead functions have exploded. But most companies still allocate these rising overhead and support costs by their diminishing direct labor base or, as with marketing and distribution costs, not at all.

https://hbr.org/1988/09/measure-costs-right-make-the-right-decisions

I've been involved with several tech transfers to offshore sites. Direct labor costs weren't the driver. In one case it was favorable taxation. In another, it was subsidized R&D. In most cases, expenses went up because of quality issues due to an inexperienced workforce.
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It's not just direct labor costs they stand to save though, it's all of the above.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
It's not just direct labor costs they stand to save though, it's all of the above.
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I go back to my main assertion that the HDMC was speaking false when it claimed the main reason for locating plants in Asia was to drive sales in that region. If that were the case, why not expand production here and sell the bikes in Asia? I don't know but suspect they are looking for other benefits like tax breaks, subsidies, weaker workers rights and so forth.

It IS all about cutting overall costs. On that I agree. Not "we want to expand our sales in Asia"

I support the US taking actions to make US businesses more competitive with other nations. This should include insisting on improving working conditions and worker's rights in nations that want to sell products here.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I go back to my main assertion that the HDMC was speaking false when it claimed the main reason for locating plants in Asia was to drive sales in that region. If that were the case, why not expand production here and sell the bikes in Asia? I don't know but suspect they are looking for other benefits like tax breaks, subsidies, weaker workers rights and so forth.

It IS all about cutting overall costs. On that I agree. Not "we want to expand our sales in Asia"

I support the US taking actions to make US businesses more competitive with other nations. This should include insisting on improving working conditions and worker's rights in nations that want to sell products here.
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They're not moving to drive sales there, they're moving to meet expanded demand, they're similar but not the same in the timeline. They're not even really moving as such, just downscaling the number of facilities here with (what is apparently) no loss of jobs.

They can produce over there at Asian cost and sell for close to US retail, no worker safety concerns, risk of strike action, etc.

I'd also imagine it's to avoid any potential tariffs or taxes, etc for the importation that could be avoided by producing them there directly.

Lots of companies set up foreign bases purely for ease of access to that market.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
They're not moving to drive sales there, they're moving to meet expanded demand, they're similar but not the same in the timeline. They're not even really moving as such, just downscaling the number of facilities here with (what is apparently) no loss of jobs.

They can produce over there at Asian cost and sell for close to US retail, no worker safety concerns, risk of strike action, etc.

I'd also imagine it's to avoid any potential tariffs or taxes, etc for the importation that could be avoided by producing them there directly.

Lots of companies set up foreign bases purely for ease of access to that market.
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All I hear is you repeating the mantra that nothing can be done to protect US jobs and I disagree.

In Europe, many companies expand sales there to meet foreign demand.

Works pretty good too. Outstanding levels of quality, reliability and customer satisfaction. Good paying jobs remain in countries that fostered the growth of those companies.

I'd like to see that kind of business model encouraged in the US.
 
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