Senate confirms Gina Haspel as CIA director

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
There's nothing factually incorrect or misleading about the statement "Without Democrats, Haspel wouldn't have been confirmed"
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I didn't say that that you were factually incorrect or misleading. I said if you had been more clear I and others wouldn't have thought you were saying the entire Democratic party and all who associate with them are damned. We might actually agree sometimes. That would be nice.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I didn't say that that you were factually incorrect or misleading. I said if you had been more clear I and others wouldn't have thought you were saying the entire Democratic party and all who associate with them are damned. We might actually agree sometimes. That would be nice.
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I'm sure we already agree on more things than not. The problem is the way your side chooses to argue against the legitimate disagreements. You sow more division because it boosts your ego instead of actually trying to figure out the problems. Then hide behind the curtain of immaturity when it's pointed out. Sometimes, when Trump and Republicans pass terrible legislation, you pretend you want to be on the same team and condemn progressives for not siding with establishment Democrats. Other times you condescend and expose your arrogance and tell progressives to start a 3rd party

I think it's time for you to choose a side

If you want to ally with the progressive momentum, stop disrespecting and condescending progressive opinions. If you don't, continue what you're doing. Personally, I think defeating Trump and Republicans is the most important problem to solve at the moment, but that's just me
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I'm sure we already agree on more things than not. The problem is the way your side chooses to argue against the legitimate disagreements. You sow more division because it boosts your ego instead of actually trying to figure out the problems. Then hide behind the curtain of immaturity when it's pointed out. Sometimes, when Trump and Republicans pass terrible legislation, you pretend you want to be on the same team and condemn progressives for not siding with establishment Democrats. Other times you condescend and expose your arrogance and tell progressives to start a 3rd party

I think it's time for you to choose a side

If you want to ally with the progressive momentum, stop disrespecting and condescending progressive opinions. If you don't, continue what you're doing. Personally, I think defeating Trump and Republicans is the most important problem to solve at the moment, but that's just me
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Dude, you are so naive and so poorly understand the political situation in this country that I recommend you find a mentor to learn from. I have no patience and so am not nominating myself.

All I said to trigger your demand to "choose a side" was -- if you didn't mean all Democrats in your earlier statement and if you wanted that to be understood, then a few extra words to clarify your sentence would have been needed. As it is, you clearly said all Democrats supported the CIA torturer. Yes, it means Bernie is guilty too because he caucuses with them and wants to be their leader. Later on, you clarified and so I understand that you meant only six Democrats were at fault, so it's OK,

Regarding "choosing a side". Didn't you earlier falsely claim that by my NOT supporting the whiny, complaining Levi Tilleman for the simple reason that the DCCC was backing somebody else, you said I was just backing my team? As if "backing a team" is bad? So now I have to choose a team when teams are bad? I don't get you sometimes. I live in Oregon where my Senators -- Wyden and Merkely as well as my Representative -- DeFazio are pretty good progressives. I will back them. Does that mean I've chosen a side?

For the record, I said I don't have a dog in the fight in Colorado. I just said that the DCCC is a political comittee and they have every legal right to back whom they want. I have asked you what is so great about Tillemann or what's so bad about his opponent that you are soooo angry at the DCCC for not not backing Levi and you've never answered.

In order to win back the house, Democrats are going to have to win in conservative districts. This means Democrats who win there will not represent the same views as a liberal Californian. I expect you will be disappointed to learn in November that I am right.
 
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Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Dude, you are so naive and so poorly understand the political situation in this country that I recommend you find a mentor to learn from. I have no patience and so am not nominating myself.

All I said to trigger your demand to "choose a side" was -- if you didn't mean all Democrats in your earlier statement and if you wanted that to be understood, then a few extra words to clarify your sentence would have been needed. As it is, you clearly said all Democrats supported the CIA torturer. Yes, it means Bernie is guilty too because he caucuses with them and wants to be their leader. Later on, you clarified and so I understand that you meant only six Democrats were at fault, so it's OK,

Regarding "choosing a side". Didn't you earlier falsely claim that by my NOT supporting the whiny, complaining Levi Tilleman for the simple reason that the DCCC was backing somebody else, you said I was just backing my team? As if "backing a team" is bad? So now I have to choose a team when teams are bad? I don't get you sometimes. I live in Oregon where my Senators -- Wyden and Merkely as well as my Representative -- DeFazio are pretty good progressives. I will back them. Does that mean I've chosen a side?

For the record, I said I don't have a dog in the fight in Colorado. I just said that the DCCC is a political comittee and they have every legal right to back whom they want. I have asked you what is so great about Tillemann or what's so bad about his opponent that you are soooo angry at the DCCC for not not backing Levi and you've never answered.

In order to win back the house, Democrats are going to have to win in conservative districts. This means Democrats who win there will not represent the same views as a liberal Californian. I expect you will be disappointed to learn in November that I am right.
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But he used italics. Only really pure people are allowed to use them.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I'm sure we already agree on more things than not. The problem is the way your side chooses to argue against the legitimate disagreements. You sow more division because it boosts your ego instead of actually trying to figure out the problems. Then hide behind the curtain of immaturity when it's pointed out. Sometimes, when Trump and Republicans pass terrible legislation, you pretend you want to be on the same team and condemn progressives for not siding with establishment Democrats. Other times you condescend and expose your arrogance and tell progressives to start a 3rd party

I think it's time for you to choose a side

If you want to ally with the progressive momentum, stop disrespecting and condescending progressive opinions. If you don't, continue what you're doing. Personally, I think defeating Trump and Republicans is the most important problem to solve at the moment, but that's just me
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There is an interesting battle between your kind of Progressives and Democratic party progressives going on in the Georgia Democratic party primary for Governor. Two liberal candidates, one black the other white are going for the nomination. Both women, both first name Stacey. Stacey Abrams, is black, has been the state senate minority leader for 7 years and is being criticized for not being progressive enough. Evans, the white candidate is running to the left of Abrams. Its an interesting dynamic. One speaker comes out and says a black person can't win in Georgia. Others point to Abrams credentials and experience.

It's an interesting listen if you have the time an interest.

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/19/612583975/georgia-governors-race-stacey-vs-stacey

There is a transcript if you rather read.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
opposing deregulation of banks?
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17 Democrats voted to deregulate those banks, remember?

You're such an apologist tool.

Don't forget that nearly every Democrat voted for the defense appropriation bill too.

Complicit is an excellent term for what the Democratic Party has become.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
SB85 said:
I hope the dems are going to make sure those 6 up for re-election fail to get enough votes
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Ummmm, no. In fact DCCC is even now busily shoveling money at any establishment candidate running against a progressive, no matter what their record.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
SB85 said:
I am sure those states could find better dems to replace the ones that helped to vote a nut job to a top position
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Buckwit makes the classic two faced argument; 'it's okay if some Democrats vote with Republicans, as long as they're Democrats!'

As soon as you examine that sentiment, any rationality for it falls away.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Dude, you are so naive and so poorly understand the political situation in this country that I recommend you find a mentor to learn from. I have no patience and so am not nominating myself.

All I said to trigger your demand to "choose a side" was -- if you didn't mean all Democrats in your earlier statement and if you wanted that to be understood, then a few extra words to clarify your sentence would have been needed. As it is, you clearly said all Democrats supported the CIA torturer. Yes, it means Bernie is guilty too because he caucuses with them and wants to be their leader. Later on, you clarified and so I understand that you meant only six Democrats were at fault, so it's OK,

Regarding "choosing a side". Didn't you earlier falsely claim that by my NOT supporting the whiny, complaining Levi Tilleman for the simple reason that the DCCC was backing somebody else, you said I was just backing my team? As if "backing a team" is bad? So now I have to choose a team when teams are bad? I don't get you sometimes. I live in Oregon where my Senators -- Wyden and Merkely as well as my Representative -- DeFazio are pretty good progressives. I will back them. Does that mean I've chosen a side?

For the record, I said I don't have a dog in the fight in Colorado. I just said that the DCCC is a political comittee and they have every legal right to back whom they want. I have asked you what is so great about Tillemann or what's so bad about his opponent that you are soooo angry at the DCCC for not not backing Levi and you've never answered.

In order to win back the house, Democrats are going to have to win in conservative districts. This means Democrats who win there will not represent the same views as a liberal Californian. I expect you will be disappointed to learn in November that I am right.
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He understands our political situation far better than you do, for the simple reason that he has an open mind and does some homework.

You're just a lazy apologist tool for establishment Democrats who don't give a fuck about you.

So who's naive one?
 
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