LED hps....

[churchhaze]

You do understand the concept of 'Joules' in energy transfer in physics?

If you're using 1000W of electricity, take a guess at how much heat you're producing. Even with a 100% efficient lamp with 0 IR, you're putting 1000W of radiant heat into your grow area. 10% efficient lamp? You're putting 10% radiant heat and 90% conductive heat in your grow area. 1000W

If you're using a 600W HPS lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

If you're using a 600W LED lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

 

[Kingrow1]

Put up or shut up.
Show us your plants.

I already have spent seven years showing plants here, you miss the concept of this site bro!

 

[Chunky Stool]

I already have spent seven years showing plants here, you miss the concept of this site bro!

I knew you didn't grow.

So basically you come here for attention?

#SAD

 

[Kingrow1]

If you're using 1000W of electricity, take a guess at how much heat you're producing. Even with a 100% efficient lamp with 0 IR, you're putting 1000W of radiant heat into your grow area. 10% efficient lamp? You're putting 10% radiant heat and 90% conductive heat in your grow area. 1000W

If you're using a 600W HPS lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

If you're using a 600W LED lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

I think a lot of my problem is understanding that heat and i hope i have shown a progression in heat threads and led threads upto this point.

Heat transfers through conduction into objects touching, convection into the air and radiation as light and beyond.

Convection into air that is swiftly dealt with through ventilation should never build in reality.

Radiation is dealt with by the most effective organic cooling process in nature, transpiration or the movement of heat through water is highly efficient, nature is much more brutal with radiation ir and photons than any hps set at correct distance as referenced.

Conduction is all over but cooled greatly by the air flow of tents.

So if i measure the air above my hps its not hot and barely warm if i put my hand there, below is hot in the light but leaf be handling this allday long.

Im not saying leds are wrong here but broken down im still scratching my head as to what heat, my tents barely warm out of the light and many prefer this upper tent position for thermometer placement as they appreciate the same heat science as me and placing a thermometer under the light is impossible to get correct air temps really. Air temp reading must not be influenced by the sun in geography or your weather readings.

We need a broader discussion of leds v hps, led growers a mile away from hps growers in the same state saying its too hot for hps yet the hps guy is killing it allday long same setup and conditions.

Things cause arguments here but theres enough for a grower to seriously question the led advice and science here. Ironically led manufacturers now appreciate the effects of lots of ir and non essential par/pfd spectrums afrer years of saying they werent needed, i however have never struck out this big....

 

[Kingrow1]

I knew you didn't grow.

So basically you come here for attention?

#SAD

I come here because theres like no decent guys on plenty of fish and theres like seven women, two lesbians and about 12,000 single men here who always have a secret room for using me in a sexually agressive way, can't argue with those numbers

 

[NanoGadget]

If you're using 1000W of electricity, take a guess at how much heat you're producing. Even with a 100% efficient lamp with 0 IR, you're putting 1000W of radiant heat into your grow area. 10% efficient lamp? You're putting 10% radiant heat and 90% conductive heat in your grow area. 1000W

If you're using a 600W HPS lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

If you're using a 600W LED lamp, it's putting 600W of heat in your grow area.

This completely misses the point. We want light not watts. You can put down the same ppfd with 600 or so watts of QBs as you get from a 1000w hps. So even IF there is no watt for watt difference in heat you still end up with less heat to achieve optimal light levels at your canopy.

 

[Kingrow1]

This completely misses the point. We want light not watts. You can put down the same ppfd with 600 or so watts of QBs as you get from a 1000w hps. So even IF there is no watt for watt difference in heat you still end up with less heat to achieve optimal light levels at your canopy.

With the greatest respect...

The lab guys who came up with ppfd also go on to fully state that it is inaccurate and as such there is still no consensus as to what optimal light is. Led manufacturers dupe you into its worship when in fact it is far from the truth, simply google this fact if you dont believe me and note the many many other scales for plant light measurement.

Light is light to a plant, many peeps burnt for missjudging photon energy levels, to a plant red is pretty close to blue (neither are cool i.e. No such thing as a cold laser beam).

Canopy air temperature is not affected by photons much, leaves as solor collectors are and can handle very high photon count. Technically it is not light that damages but the inability of the leaf repair psII system to keep up with photosynthesis.

Leds take a lot of stuff for granted, open to peeps picking their logic apart plus they arent that much stronger photon to photon hence why they struggle to kill hps as hps obviously has a better spectrum or it couldnt keep up.

 

[NanoGadget]

Dude. Same light ouput. Its not a conversion or equivalency. Same. Output.

 

[Kingrow1]

Dude. Same light ouput. Its not a conversion or equivalency. Same. Output.

I dont understand, just way its written sorry my bad.

Hard to replicate the same light output with two different light types.

 

[NanoGadget]

I dont understand, just way its written sorry my bad.

Hard to replicate the same light output with two different light types.

PPFD is photosynthetic photon flux density. PPFD measures the amount of PAR that actually arrives at the plant, or as a scientist might say: “the number of photosynthetically active photons that fall on a given surface each second”

This is a measurable metric. An HLG 550 will give you numbers nearly identical to a SE 1000w HPS. It's not subjective. Its measurable reality.

 

[churchhaze]

This completely misses the point. We want light not watts. You can put down the same ppfd with 600 or so watts of QBs as you get from a 1000w hps. So even IF there is no watt for watt difference in heat you still end up with less heat to achieve optimal light levels at your canopy.

When did I ever dispute this point? What you're saying now is the natural progression of what I was saying. The reason having less IR and conductive heat is beneficial is because you can consume less power from the wall to get the same amount of PAR output.

 

[NanoGadget]

When did I ever dispute this point? What you're saying now is the natural progression of what I was saying. The reason having less IR and conductive heat is beneficial is because you can consume less power from the wall to get the same amount of PAR output.

I'm sorry. This topic has been so combative that i assumed a lot of things i shouldn't have. That is my bad and I hope to do better.

 

[Kingrow1]

Break it down futher, they may seem the same but they are not.

Light dosent influence air much anyway so it again is flawed for canopy temps.

Can we agree that there is more to it and maybe come back to this on another thread in the future? All points of higher science and lights have been intresting but i need more time to keep looking at this.

PPFD is photosynthetic photon flux density. PPFD measures the amount of PAR that actually arrives at the plant, or as a scientist might say: “the number of photosynthetically active photons that fall on a given surface each second”

This is a measurable metric. An HLG 550 will give you numbers nearly identical to a SE 1000w HPS. It's not subjective. Its measurable reality.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Break it down futher, they may seem the same but they are not.

Light dosent influence air much anyway so it again is flawed for canopy temps.

Can we agree that there is more to it and maybe come back to this on another thread in the future? All points of higher science and lights have been intresting but i need more time to keep looking at this.

One trick pony.

 

[NanoGadget]

Break it down futher, they may seem the same but they are not.

Light dosent influence air much anyway so it again is flawed for canopy temps.

Can we agree that there is more to it and maybe come back to this on another thread in the future? All points of higher science and lights have been intresting but i need more time to keep looking at this.

I'm always willing to keep talking and exchanging ideas. As long as the exchanges are honest, open, and thoughtful I'm on board.

 

[Kingrow1]

I'm always willing to keep talking and exchanging ideas. As long as the exchanges are honest, open, and thoughtful I'm on board.

The end of the led debate is close, we just need one smart fucker to put both opinions and science into one...

The debate proves the current science is wrong in places so there must be more, no hate towards any light just needs more work before i stop pointing at massive errors on both sides.

Leds have shown me just how much richer the hps spectrum is than i initially thought and how green is the most absorbed spectrum of them all due to lower leaves scavaging almost all of it.

Still learning too

 

[Kingrow1]

One trick pony.
View attachment 4148852

Yes ive said my one trick is being so objective its subjective.

On a side note there must be somthing here that you agree on that supports the hypothesis that leds dont have the science right yet, not that they dont work very well indeed but why they never hit their peak. I can agree the best leds will get is similar to hps in yeilds but no futher.

Eventually this led science must evolve into a more plausible explanation of heat and light even if it does prove them the superior light...

 

[Chunky Stool]

Yes ive said my one trick is being so objective its subjective.

On a side note there must be somthing here that you agree on that supports the hypothesis that leds dont have the science right yet, not that they dont work very well indeed but why they never hit their peak. I can agree the best leds will get is similar to hps in yeilds but no futher.

Eventually this led science must evolve into a more plausible explanation of heat and light even if it does prove them the superior light...

 

[Jimmy the vest uk]

Point in question, weed plants grow in climates that far exceed our tents temps and ir heat given off by the any hps.

The switch to leds negates a grower having to work to get perfect plants under hps.

I dont see how heat can build in our tents when the overall area is exhausted by high power 300-500cfm inlines, physically and thermodynamically impossible past a point.

I guess i dont want to leave this argument alone and it raises many intresting factual questions iv'e yet to see answered which leaves me to ponder myself

Hey kinggrow
Do you rate any seed breeders?
Having shitty time last couple years trying to find some good mothers it’s a long story of pheno hunting through about 100 regular seeds around 50 fems and only really finding 1 that has everything I’m looking for and still not a 10 out of 10

We disagree and i fully support that hps gives of very little heat...

That said it was embarresing for most when i had to explain how to sex a plant so noobs wernt cutting down females, the time you all though whorlled phylotaxy was some genetic triploid but were dead wrong, just general info on genetics that most were on another planet about.

Now you all may disagree but i havent been wrong before when you all disagreed and so i believe you just havent looked at the facts and figures properly.

We will painfully have to relive this until someone proves me wrong or you get to the point where my simple science wins out as it has for a long time.

hey kinggrow
Wondered if you could recommend any reliable seed breeders from your own experience?
Been having a shitty time last year or so searching for something that ticks all the boxes for me personally. I am only confident with one pheno I found out of over 100 reg seeds from different breeders and about 50 feminised( I won’t be using fem beans for this again because I did see a lot less stress resistance from them overall but 1 of them was really stress resistant but I can’t be bothered with the worry so I only wanna play with regs from now on.
What’s your opinions?

 

[Jimmy the vest uk]

Sorry about the double message you get the picture