Right wing oppressors, or left wing savior?

[Sour Wreck]

What about anything I've ever posted here would suggest I'm a fascist, a fascist sympathizer, or even politically right leaning?

I'm not even talking about the vitriolic attacks on open Trump supporters. It's the internet. But the "give us Bernie or get Trump" folks or the "Nah, not voting for Hillary, so I'm staying at work Tuesday" folks are potential allies and should be almost allies by default. They certainly aren't fascist by default.

i'm not suggesting you are facist. i responded to the last sentence in your post. and those that threatened 'give us bernie or we will give you trump' can get fucked...

anyone who wasn't a nevertrumper is a DICK in my world...

 

[gonnagro]

only way to defeat facism is with death and violence...

Nope

 

[UncleBuck]

Nope

Cuck

 

[Sour Wreck]

Cuck

he loves orange loads all over his teeth...

 

[Andrewk420]

I'm quite rightly pointing out that you are stepping into a fight that is not yours. At least not yet

Progressives(TM) are NOT the reason why Clinton lost. There are many reasons why and if one were to list all the factors that contributed to her loss, the largest would be Clinton and her campaign. Trump's own campaign should be listed next. Waaaaaaay down the list would be the near-continuous smear campaign mounted by a remnant of Sanders followers after Bernie dropped out. They DID NOT cause Clinton to lose but post election analysis shows that without them, Clinton would have won. It is accurate to say they have a share in the responsibility for today's situation. If I had been in that group in November, I would be apologetic and mortified about what I did to the very people who are now unreasonably facing deportation, the shredding of the ACA, harm to the environment and so forth. Instead they are doubling down with false conspiracy stories and continue to hector people on the left who are more pragmatic about the politics of this country. I'm returning volley, not serving.

So, if you want to join them in their game, I have game too. I'd rather you not. Most of your posts, I like.

I understand where you're coming from, but the time for being angry and bitter about the past is done in that sense.

I'm mostly with you up until the 'continue to abuse them for it'. I guess I look at things moving forward and figure we're better off rallying the troops, whoever they are, to vote against the GOP in the next couple elections, which I am pretty sure I've heard you champion(?). If not you, it was somebody pointing it out about different states electing as progressive as that state is "ready for" representation, because it's better than the alternative.

MAGA dumb dumbs aren't voting for anyone except who Trump says to vote for. Some people who voted for Trump may have seen the error of their ways and vote differently or not voted at all. But the biggest swing is the Bernie bros and whatever other 'alternative' left voters who either voted Trump out of spite or didn't vote at all. Continuing to treat them like political pariahs ain't the best strategy, in my opinion.

 

[Fogdog]

I understand where you're coming from, but the time for being angry and bitter about the past is done in that sense.

I'm mostly with you up until the 'continue to abuse them for it'. I guess I look at things moving forward and figure we're better off rallying the troops, whoever they are, to vote against the GOP in the next couple elections, which I am pretty sure I've heard you champion(?). If not you, it was somebody pointing it out about different states electing as progressive as that state is "ready for" representation, because it's better than the alternative.

MAGA dumb dumbs aren't voting for anyone except who Trump says to vote for. Some people who voted for Trump may have seen the error of their ways and vote differently or not voted at all. But the biggest swing is the Bernie bros and whatever other 'alternative' left voters who either voted Trump out of spite or didn't vote at all. Continuing to treat them like political pariahs ain't the best strategy, in my opinion.

This argument between Cult of Sanders and progressives has been going on for about a year and a half. The message I get from them is vote my way or I'll ruin you. This is the same kind of extremism that we get from the right. I don't happen to think that an extreme Democratic Party is the answer to an extreme Republican Party.

Not only do I strongly oppose the radicalization of the Democratic Party, but the figurehead Progressives(TM) hold up is an old white man who has a long history of being tone deaf to black, Hispanic and women civil rights issues. Those three groups make up about 40% of the Democratic Party and they voted strongly against Bernie in 2016. We need them more than we need the Progressives(TM) to win.

Bernie even said to a black audience at a town hall in remembrance of Martin Luther King that Obama was a "charismatic leader, BUT" Obama is why Trump and the GOP congress won. According to Bernie, Obama is why Democrats lost so many races. His policies and rhetoric are basically telling black, brown and women voters to put their interests on hold in favor of economic policies that benefit everybody. Don't you think we've done that enough in our recent history? Would or should they accept being shuffled aside "for the common good"?

Given all that and add to it the Progressive(TM) chant of "give me Bernie or I'll give you Trump" and "Trump's win is the best thing that happened to Progressives(TM)", I conclude that Progressives(TM) are afflicted by racism whether they carry Nazi flags or not. Only a white person who is unlikely to face Republican racist policies could utter those words. The choice offered by Progressives(TM) isn't a matter of all other Democrats coming together with the radical Bernie-left, it is a matter of selling out our Democratic women, black and Latino brothers and sisters for the favor of an intolerant sexist-racist-leaning white minority of the party.

I disagree that we have to sell out our values in order to win back the votes of racists on the left or the right to displace Trump. I think there is another way. Even if there were none, I won't sell out my values especially my support for civil rights.

 

[ttystikk]

P.S. tell me what you all think? Give your take. I'd really like to hear. Together, maybe we can solve this.

 

[doublejj]

 

[Fogdog]

I didn't watch the video.

 

[Sour Wreck]

I didn't watch the video.

x2

 

[Buddha2525]

Capitalism has some pretty strong positives. On balance I like it better than socialism. But I think I am in the minority here.

I don't think many got the point of this Op-ed.

For many, people don't realize this:

"The “free-market anti-capitalism” of left-libertarianism is no contradiction, nor is it a recent development. It permeated Tucker’s Liberty,and the identification of worker exploitation harked back at least to Thomas Hodgskin (1787-1869), a free-market radical who was one of the first to apply the term “capitalist” disparagingly to the beneficiaries of government favors bestowed on capital at the expense of labor. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, “socialism” did not exclusively mean collective or government ownership of the means or production but was an umbrella term for anyone who believed labor was cheated out of its natural product under historical capitalism."

I believe that neither government nor private corporations should own labor, or natural resources.

Natural resources belong to all and shouldn't be strip mined to make a profit.

People themselves should own their own labor. We need to strive towards more labor cooperatives, where the workers own the factory and all employees decide what should be done with their labor, rather than given order like you're in the military.

I think this would be a good read for you.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/libertarian-left/

 

[Buddha2525]

I watched and stopped at the part where he was talking about "the people no represented" and the 0.xx1% whatever picking their candidates, which I assume you mean "Uh noes, Hillary, we didn't get Bernie!"

The fact of the matter is Bernie is part of the "beast" that controls us.

How can you be an "informed' voter if how you're taught is wrong too? From a young age you're taught about "democracy," yet then says "And to the Republic" right before lunch everyday. I mean WTF?

Then we have lies when I was in school about genetics, saying eye color for blue and brown is recessive and dominant. But in reality, there are six genes that control eye color, which turn on a "spectrum" of black and brown eumelanin, and fat which causes either hazel or green eyes. So it's possible, but highly unlikely you can have two blue eyed parents, and get a brown or black eyed child. Yet according to Biology 1P in high school, that's impossible.

We therefore have to stand up and realize that voting is a fraud, and only perpetuates this fraud, unless the whole messed up system is overhauled.

Contrary to popular belief of most liberals, their slogan of "complete freedom of the press" is why this happens. Press shouldn't be allowed to say any lie and then go, "Hey it's our opinion, man!"

I know this is a bit long, but you'll get a lot more out of it than that Op-ed you posted that doesn't solve a damn thing.

 

[ttystikk]

I didn't watch the video.

Explains the closed mind pretty well, right there.

 

[ttystikk]

x2

You know, Trumpers also elevate ignorance to the level of virtue.

I was under the impression you were better than that.

Am I mistaken?

 

[ttystikk]

I watched and stopped at the part where he was talking about "the people no represented" and the 0.xx1% whatever picking their candidates, which I assume you mean "Uh noes, Hillary, we didn't get Bernie!"

The fact of the matter is Bernie is part of the "beast" that controls us.

How can you be an "informed' voter if how you're taught is wrong too? From a young age you're taught about "democracy," yet then says "And to the Republic" right before lunch everyday. I mean WTF?

Then we have lies when I was in school about genetics, saying eye color for blue and brown is recessive and dominant. But in reality, there are six genes that control eye color, which turn on a "spectrum" of black and brown eumelanin, and fat which causes either hazel or green eyes. So it's possible, but highly unlikely you can have two blue eyed parents, and get a brown or black eyed child. Yet according to Biology 1P in high school, that's impossible.

We therefore have to stand up and realize that voting is a fraud, and only perpetuates this fraud, unless the whole messed up system is overhauled.

Contrary to popular belief of most liberals, their slogan of "complete freedom of the press" is why this happens. Press shouldn't be allowed to say any lie and then go, "Hey it's our opinion, man!"

I know this is a bit long, but you'll get a lot more out of it than that Op-ed you posted that doesn't solve a damn thing.

Then you stopped too soon.

But of course a Harvard professor can't have anything intelligent to say that might take longer than 140 characters.

Sorry to water your time.

 

[Tim1987]

Neither.
Each side can just keep fighting, and we all meet in the middle.





Lolz
Here comes a shit storm. Get ready....

Good thread OP.

 

[ttystikk]

Neither.
Each side can just keep fighting, and we all meet in the middle.





Lolz
Here comes a shit storm. Get ready....

Good thread OP.

This would work in a rational world and it used to here in America.

What changed was the purchase of both parties by the donor class, the .02%. Citizens United was the last step, not the first.

What's worse is that when confronted with the truth, even those who consider themselves political insiders would rather deny this awful reality than acknowledge it and get on board with what must be done.

 

[Fogdog]

Explains the closed mind pretty well, right there.

I consider the source before watching a video. People who post shitty propaganda get none of my time.

 

[Buddha2525]

Then you stopped too soon.

But of course a Harvard professor can't have anything intelligent to say that might take longer than 140 characters.

Sorry to water your time.

I watched the whole thing, and it was worse than I imagined from the 140 characters I used to judge it the first time.

Equality of vote isn't a solution. It would actually make their job easier.

Plenty of people I've talked to don't care about fair trade. But I do. Chocolate where they cut off your hands if you work too slow in order to set an example, is worth an extra few pennies to me for fair trade chocolate instead.

If his "equality" sort of system were in place, the only difference is, they'd become more blunt on how their policy works.

It's like what happened when "the people" were allowed to "decide" if they wanted to raise taxes. Arnold Schwarzenegger
said flat out if you vote against the tax, he'd implement another tax within his gubernatorial powers. He was pretty much saying, "vote for the tax, or I'll make my own tax higher."

All they'd need to do is threaten to not let you eat hamburgers anymore, saying "methane causes global warming. so sorry, no more cows for burgers." You'll see how quickly they will legislate a tube out of the cow's ass to collect the gasses and ship them off to another country to pollute.

If giving up one ounce of luxury means we screw others, that's all the incentive 99% of the people would need.

 

[ttystikk]

I consider the source before watching a video. People who post shitty propaganda get none of my time.

Right.

Because you're so smart you've got nothing to learn from a Harvard tenured professor.

That explains why I treat your opinions with contempt.