Need some help with turning a new leaf

highwayman

Well-Known Member
I want to make a living soil (no till) but don’t have the room to make my own mix but already have all the ingredients. I have black gold compressed block soil and was looking to make a batch of compost tea in a large bin in order to hydrate the soil and start it off with microbes and fungi and bacteria can that be done?? Also any advice would be awesome! I’ve also heard of letting the soil “cook” when mixed would I have to do that and just leave it all in the large bin?
I have pretty much all the Gaia Green products and some bat guano and worm castings,azos and mykos from Xtreme, also Great White innoculant also powered alfalfa.
 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Its not about products with organics, its much more about the techniques. There are some comprehensive threads as i can see, about organics and natural farming. I suggest you read them over. But you may not wish to commit yourself this deeply at first, i get it.
In that case, you should use a tried and true recipe for your soil mix. I’m sure you can find them on the site.
Amendments mostly need to go into the soil and guano can be used as a topdress before the flip.
Great white and mycos are both mycorrhiza products depending on what product you have from great white. Either way myco needs direct contact. Use it when transplanting directly onto the roots. Dont brew a tea with it.
Azos is nitrogen fixing bacteria can be just watered in or used in your tea, but either case i would add half to the tea half to the finished tea before watering it in.
As for tea, wormcastings, manure and a slurry made of your yard soil or a patch of land you’re sure that is free of insecticides and chemicals, forests work too. This should give you very diverse microbial product. Dig under shaded trees and plants that are thriving around where you live. This may not be as effective or safe as harvesting IMO or LAB so you may skip it if you like, i just harvest LAB its a great tonic, that works for everything.
Mix all together add some kelp and alfalfa maybe a bit of molasses. Brew 24-36 hrs dilute 1 to 20 if you’re gonna soak your soil in so its enough for it. I never used compressed mixes so i cannot say if this has any adverse effects.
Also never had gaia green products cant comment on them.
Wow this is a long reply. You should read organics threads, they’re fun.
 

highwayman

Well-Known Member
Thank you I would add a fraction of a living soil recipe that my good friend has given to me and top dress the rest I just wanted to give the soil a little start with the tea water to hydrate the soil to get it moving a little bit, I have kelp also that I will add and plan on making the tea today to let it brew for a while before mixing the soil
 

highwayman

Well-Known Member
Its not about products with organics, its much more about the techniques. There are some comprehensive threads as i can see, about organics and natural farming. I suggest you read them over. But you may not wish to commit yourself this deeply at first, i get it.
In that case, you should use a tried and true recipe for your soil mix. I’m sure you can find them on the site.
Amendments mostly need to go into the soil and guano can be used as a topdress before the flip.
Great white and mycos are both mycorrhiza products depending on what product you have from great white. Either way myco needs direct contact. Use it when transplanting directly onto the roots. Dont brew a tea with it.
Azos is nitrogen fixing bacteria can be just watered in or used in your tea, but either case i would add half to the tea half to the finished tea before watering it in.
As for tea, wormcastings, manure and a slurry made of your yard soil or a patch of land you’re sure that is free of insecticides and chemicals, forests work too. This should give you very diverse microbial product. Dig under shaded trees and plants that are thriving around where you live. This may not be as effective or safe as harvesting IMO or LAB so you may skip it if you like, i just harvest LAB its a great tonic, that works for everything.
Mix all together add some kelp and alfalfa maybe a bit of molasses. Brew 24-36 hrs dilute 1 to 20 if you’re gonna soak your soil in so its enough for it. I never used compressed mixes so i cannot say if this has any adverse effects.
Also never had gaia green products cant comment on them.
Wow this is a long reply. You should read organics threads, they’re fun.
I have read a lot about living soils and threads about them that’s why I feel confident in trying this I was just looking for some more advice and input from others on this thread and would love to hear more about what works well for others.
 

SlownLow86

Well-Known Member
I've got mine in a 50 gallon tote. That's more than enough for cannabis, vegetable starts, house plants... whatever I want to grow. Just keep it moist and occasionally use an AACT to keep all the creepy crawlies happy.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I have read a lot about living soils and threads about them that’s why I feel confident in trying this I was just looking for some more advice and input from others on this thread and would love to hear more about what works well for others.
What you're doing by "cooking" the soil is effectively allowing life to colonize the soil in the form of microscopic bacteria and fungi, as well as larger organisms. By providing the soil with air and water you allow provide what the organisms need to colonize your soil and create life within it. Over time, these organisms will break down the amendments in the soil and multiple at an exponential rate. Once the soil has "cooked" it is ready for a host plant, as there is a civilization of living microbes waiting to form a symbiotic relationship with a host plant. The plant and microbes will continue to feed and care for one another, and all we have to do is continue to provide water and amendments to keep that cycle going.

The process of colonizing (or cooking) a soil takes weeks because the growth is exponential. People use compost teas to jump start the process because the teas contain a significant amount of microbes and this cuts down the cooking process by a few weeks. However, I don't recommend using compost tea after you have plants in the soil unless it is a simple Earthworm Casting (EWC) tea. The reason for this is because teas throw off the balance of your soil and certain microbes are attracted to certain amendments. Using teas is comparable to using synthetics, because you are taking control of things away from the plant and soil and putting it back in your own hands.

Look into a book called "Teeming with Microbes" as it is one of the best books on the subject of living organic soil. That book will do a better job explaining anything than I ever could. If you can't get a look at that book for some reason, look into "living organic soil" instead of just "organic growing" because there is an enormous amount of deception with the word "organic growing". And no matter what happens, never get discouraged and take everything as a learning experience. When living organics is done properly you will be rewarded with such incredible flavors that you will never be able to go back to anything else.

Something to consider about the word "Organic" though is that it is often used incorrectly, and a lot of "organic" products aren't truly organic. There is a common misconception that just because something isn't synthetic/chemical that it is automatically organic, and this is not the case. With the exception of Liquid Kelp, Fish Hydrolysate, and Liquid Fish none of those bottled "organics" are truly organic and are simply derivatives of products used in organic growing.

The definition for "Organic" is as follows: "relating to or derived from living matter".

So essentially, without life a soil cannot be truly called organic. The soil and amendments themselves are not life, the plant and microbiology are the life. Soil, minerals, water and amendments are just the means through which this life in the soil is possible. Just like with people: food, water, and shelter are the means that make life possible yet those three things in themselves are not life.

I only bring this up because a lot of people try "organics", get poor results, then give up and go back to what they were successful with. I believe this is intentional. If everyone started growing with living organic soil there are a lot of people that would lose money. It is a self sustaining method of growing that, over time requires little to no expenses at all. Say you start a farm with 50 gallons of living soil in no-till. Over time, that 50g of soil will become pure compost so you'll have to make a new soil. So now with your 50g compost, you add 50g peat and 50g perlite to get 150g of soil. Over time, that 150g turns to compost which eventually turns into 450g of soil when you start over again. As you can see, over time you'll have more soil than you know what to do with because it increases at an exponential rate. You only have to purchase Peat Moss and aeration/drainage and amendments for top dress to keep things going.

If everyone started growing like this, not only would synthetics go out of business but so too would all the farms that use them. Not only do I have less overhead with living organic growing, but there's significantly less labor involved and since time = money that's even more "money" saved. Someone that has to pay for the cost of synthetics, combined with the labor involved using them will have to charge a higher price for their products to compensate.

There are a lot of soil recipes out there filled with way more ingredients than needed, these ingredients are either expensive, superfluous, or in some cases both. Clackamas Coot's soil recipe (which he got from an agriculture school that's name slips my mind now, Cornell I think?) is considered the best soil recipe because it provides absolutely everything your plant needs with only a handful of amendments and minerals. Another thing to consider is that you don't always have to use the ingredients these recipes tell you to use, as long as it provides what your soil needs you can use it. For example, perlite and lava rocks both provide aeration and drainage. Perlite will be cheaper for some people, and lava rocks cheaper for others. Use what is most freely available to you. I live in the desert, so I have an abundance of sand I can use instead. Or Oyster Shell Flour, buffers pH and provides calcium. If OSF isn't cheap or available, use Dolomite Lime. If Crab Meal (provides chitin, calcium, and NPK) is too expensive, you can substitute for insect frass and a guano with a similar NPK.

The point is, it isn't so much about the type of amendments you use but what the amendments provide to your soil itself. Look into the Clackamas Coot's recipe, I highly recommend you start with that. It's affordable and accessible to just about anyone and is also a water only soil. You only need to top dress with more compost and amendments every 4 weeks or so and water it, that's it. I highly recommend you read the entire ROLS/No-Till sticky in this section of the forums, it's a long read but it is filled with an incredible amount of information. If you're willing to read through that entire thread with a pen and notepad handy to take notes you will be rewarded with an immense wealth of knowledge that will make growing just about any kind of plant idiot proof.

I like organics because it's idiot proof, which means it's hard for me to fuck it up! This method of growing puts the plant and soil in charge instead of us. It would take man a long time to calculate the exact PPMs of the various nutrients a specific plant needs, even if you found the exact PPM numbers of nutrients for a tomato this won't help for all the other plants out there. By taking a step back and simply providing the soil with the tools necessary to sustain life (nutrients, water, air, etc) we allow the plant and microbiology to take over, resulting in plants that always get the perfect amount of nutrients.

I hope this was useful to you in some way.
 

Serverchris

Well-Known Member
I've got mine in a 50 gallon tote. That's more than enough for cannabis, vegetable starts, house plants... whatever I want to grow. Just keep it moist and occasionally use an AACT to keep all the creepy crawlies happy.
I 2nd this, I normally mix on a tarp then cook in a 50 gal tote but you could mix in the tote too if you dont have much room.
 

Old Thcool

Well-Known Member
What you're doing by "cooking" the soil is effectively allowing life to colonize the soil in the form of microscopic bacteria and fungi, as well as larger organisms. By providing the soil with air and water you allow provide what the organisms need to colonize your soil and create life within it. Over time, these organisms will break down the amendments in the soil and multiple at an exponential rate. Once the soil has "cooked" it is ready for a host plant, as there is a civilization of living microbes waiting to form a symbiotic relationship with a host plant. The plant and microbes will continue to feed and care for one another, and all we have to do is continue to provide water and amendments to keep that cycle going.

The process of colonizing (or cooking) a soil takes weeks because the growth is exponential. People use compost teas to jump start the process because the teas contain a significant amount of microbes and this cuts down the cooking process by a few weeks. However, I don't recommend using compost tea after you have plants in the soil unless it is a simple Earthworm Casting (EWC) tea. The reason for this is because teas throw off the balance of your soil and certain microbes are attracted to certain amendments. Using teas is comparable to using synthetics, because you are taking control of things away from the plant and soil and putting it back in your own hands.

Look into a book called "Teeming with Microbes" as it is one of the best books on the subject of living organic soil. That book will do a better job explaining anything than I ever could. If you can't get a look at that book for some reason, look into "living organic soil" instead of just "organic growing" because there is an enormous amount of deception with the word "organic growing". And no matter what happens, never get discouraged and take everything as a learning experience. When living organics is done properly you will be rewarded with such incredible flavors that you will never be able to go back to anything else.

Something to consider about the word "Organic" though is that it is often used incorrectly, and a lot of "organic" products aren't truly organic. There is a common misconception that just because something isn't synthetic/chemical that it is automatically organic, and this is not the case. With the exception of Liquid Kelp, Fish Hydrolysate, and Liquid Fish none of those bottled "organics" are truly organic and are simply derivatives of products used in organic growing.

The definition for "Organic" is as follows: "relating to or derived from living matter".

So essentially, without life a soil cannot be truly called organic. The soil and amendments themselves are not life, the plant and microbiology are the life. Soil, minerals, water and amendments are just the means through which this life in the soil is possible. Just like with people: food, water, and shelter are the means that make life possible yet those three things in themselves are not life.

I only bring this up because a lot of people try "organics", get poor results, then give up and go back to what they were successful with. I believe this is intentional. If everyone started growing with living organic soil there are a lot of people that would lose money. It is a self sustaining method of growing that, over time requires little to no expenses at all. Say you start a farm with 50 gallons of living soil in no-till. Over time, that 50g of soil will become pure compost so you'll have to make a new soil. So now with your 50g compost, you add 50g peat and 50g perlite to get 150g of soil. Over time, that 150g turns to compost which eventually turns into 450g of soil when you start over again. As you can see, over time you'll have more soil than you know what to do with because it increases at an exponential rate. You only have to purchase Peat Moss and aeration/drainage and amendments for top dress to keep things going.

If everyone started growing like this, not only would synthetics go out of business but so too would all the farms that use them. Not only do I have less overhead with living organic growing, but there's significantly less labor involved and since time = money that's even more "money" saved. Someone that has to pay for the cost of synthetics, combined with the labor involved using them will have to charge a higher price for their products to compensate.

There are a lot of soil recipes out there filled with way more ingredients than needed, these ingredients are either expensive, superfluous, or in some cases both. Clackamas Coot's soil recipe (which he got from an agriculture school that's name slips my mind now, Cornell I think?) is considered the best soil recipe because it provides absolutely everything your plant needs with only a handful of amendments and minerals. Another thing to consider is that you don't always have to use the ingredients these recipes tell you to use, as long as it provides what your soil needs you can use it. For example, perlite and lava rocks both provide aeration and drainage. Perlite will be cheaper for some people, and lava rocks cheaper for others. Use what is most freely available to you. I live in the desert, so I have an abundance of sand I can use instead. Or Oyster Shell Flour, buffers pH and provides calcium. If OSF isn't cheap or available, use Dolomite Lime. If Crab Meal (provides chitin, calcium, and NPK) is too expensive, you can substitute for insect frass and a guano with a similar NPK.

The point is, it isn't so much about the type of amendments you use but what the amendments provide to your soil itself. Look into the Clackamas Coot's recipe, I highly recommend you start with that. It's affordable and accessible to just about anyone and is also a water only soil. You only need to top dress with more compost and amendments every 4 weeks or so and water it, that's it. I highly recommend you read the entire ROLS/No-Till sticky in this section of the forums, it's a long read but it is filled with an incredible amount of information. If you're willing to read through that entire thread with a pen and notepad handy to take notes you will be rewarded with an immense wealth of knowledge that will make growing just about any kind of plant idiot proof.

I like organics because it's idiot proof, which means it's hard for me to fuck it up! This method of growing puts the plant and soil in charge instead of us. It would take man a long time to calculate the exact PPMs of the various nutrients a specific plant needs, even if you found the exact PPM numbers of nutrients for a tomato this won't help for all the other plants out there. By taking a step back and simply providing the soil with the tools necessary to sustain life (nutrients, water, air, etc) we allow the plant and microbiology to take over, resulting in plants that always get the perfect amount of nutrients.

I hope this was useful to you in some way.
Some really good points here! Nice job! I’d like to add there is also different camps of organic gardeners. I have been both. One camp will not use pearlite or expanded clay pellets or vermiculite and a host of other man made amendments, kinda like vegan vs vegetarian vs lacto ovo etc. You may offend some organic growers by using peat or bat shit because neither are needed and substitutes are many, mainly because of sustainability and anvironmental impact. Maybe not locally sourced and increases carbon footprint? All really valid points to be sure. Most everything you need to grow good organic weed can be sourced locally. Despite what the experts claim, big healthy dope plants have been grown for years without mycos and Azos. So the point to take home here is feed your soil with locally sourced organic material, be patient, use clover as a cover crop and bury it in hay or straw etc. You will grow big healthy dope. One thing to bear in mind... with true soils you can’t flush your buds! So this is a natural way to grow and can’t be forced. Mendo dope is NOT organic farming! To be clear. Any man made chemical/ product like Azos will NOT be excepted as true organic farming. From an ethical purist standpoint. Coco and peat will neither unless you have a peat bog in your hood!
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
If you have a 3x3 area to work in you have enough room to make a soil mix. Just mix smaller amounts at time. Using 1 or 2 rubbermaids.
 

highwayman

Well-Known Member
So if I have too much soil and I have added life to it, manure with worms, and tea to boost microbiology and compost can I keep it in a Rubbermaid container and it would stay alive without a plant growing in it? Because I made my mix today and have about 8 gallons more than what I need according to my calculations for smart pot size and how many pots I have.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
So if I have too much soil and I have added life to it, manure with worms, and tea to boost microbiology and compost can I keep it in a Rubbermaid container and it would stay alive without a plant growing in it? Because I made my mix today and have about 8 gallons more than what I need according to my calculations for smart pot size and how many pots I have.
Yes. I leave soil in totes for up to a year. Just make sure it never dries out.
 

highwayman

Well-Known Member
Is there a forum on here with organic ways to boost bacteria or fungi in soils? I would really like to read some how to’s on different things I could use to really bring my soil to life and get it to its full potential
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Is there a forum on here with organic ways to boost bacteria or fungi in soils? I would really like to read some how to’s on different things I could use to really bring my soil to life and get it to its full potential
you are in that forum my dude. what kinda soil are you running?
 

highwayman

Well-Known Member
you are in that forum my dude. what kinda soil are you running?
I have made my own super soil organically, I have used a compost tea to add life to it. it’s a black gold mix which I have added a small amount of compost and other additives such as blood and bone meal, glacial rock dust alfalfa meal, bat guano, worm castings and some other Gaia green products to it to slowly release as the plant grows.was just looking for some diy make at home type recipients that I can add to the soil to help it thrive and build the life of the soil, I have a thin layer of shavings on top as a mulch and have also added hay over the shaving layer. I have opened up small places in the mulch and added some white clover to grow along with my plant. And am growing in 7gallon smart pots. I will be transferring to larger smart pots as my new mix is still “cooking”.
 
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